JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ July 11 2012,17:27)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,09:56) It's a simple equation: THE WORD WAS GOD + THE WORD BECAME FLESH = GOD BECAME FLESH Yes Mike, John 1:14 fulfills this… (Scripture needs to be understood as a whole!) 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed,

1 Tim 3:16 says “HE was manifest in the flesh”, and it speaks of Jesus, not God.

Immanuel means “God is with us”, meaning “God is on our side helping us”, which He proved by sending His firstborn Son as atonement for our sins.

And I know we all crop other's posts when quoting, so we can respond to only certain parts, but really?  Can't you see how seeing my name above that big, bold, equation I made for Marty would make others think that I actually believed God came in the flesh?  Couldn't you have at least quoted the next two sentences along with it so people would know I don't actually believe that?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,10:39)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 11 2012,17:05) …………..previously had biological earthly fathers and mothers just as Yahshua did. Luke 3:23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,

Mike,

Oh! How convenient! Some translations ADD “so it was thought, (as [it] was supposed), so people thought”!    

PAREIDOLIA

…

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ July 11 2012,17:31)

Mike; You wish an answer according to the letter of the Word and I answered according to the spirit.

I don't have time for this mish-mash, Kerwin.  The answer to my question is, “NO, love is never said to have been 'begotten', nor is it ever said to have displayed the glory of the only begotten of God”.

Nor are those things ever said about any spoken utterance from Jehovah's mouth.  When people speak, they aren't “begetting” words from their mouth, Kerwin.

Your whole argument is nonsense, based on illogical uses of language and grammar.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ July 12 2012,10:12)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 07 2012,15:24) t8, Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say “Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being.” There is also no mention in Scripture from where we are to get our doctrine for reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness of a son named Yahshua that was with Father Yahweh in the beginning that He created through. Also, nowhere in Scripture am I ever asked to believe and confess such foolshness! Jesus said, “before Abraham I am”. If I said to you, “I think therefore I am”. You would take that to mean that I think therefore I exist. This is one instance where you say there are none.

t8,

Really! You can think!

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,10:46)

Quote (Ed J @ July 11 2012,17:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,09:56) It's a simple equation: THE WORD WAS GOD + THE WORD BECAME FLESH = GOD BECAME FLESH Yes Mike, John 1:14 fulfills this… (Scripture needs to be understood as a whole!) 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. God bless Ed J Ed, 1 Tim 3:16 says “HE was manifest in the flesh”, and it speaks of Jesus, not God. Immanuel means “God is with us”, meaning “God is on our side helping us”, which He proved by sending His firstborn Son as atonement for our sins. And I know we all crop other's posts when quoting, so we can respond to only certain parts, but really?  Can't you see how seeing my name above that big, bold, equation I made for Marty would make others think that I actually believed God came in the flesh?  Couldn't you have at least quoted the next two sentences along with it so people would know I don't actually believe that?

Hi Mike,

God is going to tabernacle in all his children (2 Cor 6:16).      …that is what those verses mean.       …do you not believe this?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,10:42)

Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,10:32) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,10:05) Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,09:36) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,04:28) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2012,12:40) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 11 2012,19:15) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2012,11:56) f scriptures says MAIDEN  I think Yes, I do not believe that she was actually a “virgin” when she gave birth to Yahshua. f does it matter she was a surrogate mother to Christ ,the son of God Pieear, I also do not believe that Miriam was a surrogate mother to Yahshua. I believe that Yahseph was the biological father of Yahshua. Pieear, Well, does it matter is Yahshua pre-existed his birth or not? I also do not believe that Miriam was a surrogate mother to Yahshua. I believe that Yahseph was the biological father of Yahshua. PAREIDOLIA Hi Frank, Jesus is God's only begotten son; 'YOU' do not believe this Biblical truth? God bless Ed J Ed J, I believe that it is a Scriptural truth that Yahshua is Father Yahweh's only begotten son. There are many more sons (daughters, children) to be “born (begotten) again” of Father Yahweh. These many other sons (daughters, children) who will also be begotten (born again) also previously had biological earthly fathers and mothers just as Yahshua did. PAREIDOLIA … Hi Frank, Jesus is no longer (according to Frank) God's only begotten son.       …is this what you believe? Have you not changed the meaning of the word “Begotten” then? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, I am not the one who determines who or how many are of Yahweh's children.

Have you not changed the meaning of the word “Begotten” then?

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,17:38)

Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2012,09:16) Quote (kerwin @ July 12 2012,16:07) T; I did answer your question by speaking of Mary's two forms; one of the flesh and the other of the spirit.  No one is greater than those that have been reborn of the Spirit by the Word.  In the ways of the flesh Mary was honored above all other women in that she was chosen to be the mother of Jesus' flesh. K Christ apparently did not include his mother in the twelve personal disciples ,and so she was NOT one chosen to be one of them by God,got it Christ at many time as shown that relation in a family does not mean much because it is of the flesh;got it one more thing we as human believers are saved only by the grace of accepting it from God by believing in his son and so produce the fruit s their of ,so no fruits not saved ;got it (production of the fruits until dead that is ) Mary was a surrogate(bearier ) mother, just like the prophets were surrogate ( bearier)of the word of God Pieear, Your getting your disciples and Apostles confused! Lukyah 6:17 – Yahshua came down with them and stood on a level place; and there was a large crowd of his disciples, and a great throng of people from all Yahdah and Yerusalem and the coastal region of Tyre and Sidon, Could seventy constitute a large crowd? Yes, it could, but, the scriptures indicate that Jesus had even more than that! Lukyah 10:1 Now after this the Master appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where he himself was going to come. If there were seventy “others“, then we can assume that there are more besides the others. Yahshua commanded his disciples to “Go and make more disciples” Strange how when someone becomes a believer, they call themselves “Christian”, but back then, they were called disciples. To be a disciple should be the goal. Yahchanan 4:1 – Therefore when the Master knew that the Pharisees had heard that Yahshua was making and immersing more disciples than Yahchanan Yahshua said: “Go and make disciples”. Once a disciple is made, the command then falls to him to go and make disciples. In the true order of things, there should, by now, be more disciples than we could count. The word 'disciple' in Hebrew is 'talmud' and simply means 'student' in our English language. Miriam, Yahshua's mother was most certainly one of his disciples (students), since Yahshua said “no man comes unto the Father, but by me.” She surely did not ignore and choose not to listen to anything that her son had to teach! GOT IT!

“Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

Jn 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
Jn 17:7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.
Jn 17:8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
Jn 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
Jn 17:10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.
Jn 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.
Jn 17:12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

HOW MANY HIS IT NOW BIG ONE

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2012,11:03)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,17:38) Quote (terraricca @ July 12 2012,09:16) Quote (kerwin @ July 12 2012,16:07) T; I did answer your question by speaking of Mary's two forms; one of the flesh and the other of the spirit.  No one is greater than those that have been reborn of the Spirit by the Word.  In the ways of the flesh Mary was honored above all other women in that she was chosen to be the mother of Jesus' flesh. K Christ apparently did not include his mother in the twelve personal disciples ,and so she was NOT one chosen to be one of them by God,got it Christ at many time as shown that relation in a family does not mean much because it is of the flesh;got it one more thing we as human believers are saved only by the grace of accepting it from God by believing in his son and so produce the fruit s their of ,so no fruits not saved ;got it (production of the fruits until dead that is ) Mary was a surrogate(bearier ) mother, just like the prophets were surrogate ( bearier)of the word of God Pieear, Your getting your disciples and Apostles confused! Lukyah 6:17 – Yahshua came down with them and stood on a level place; and there was a large crowd of his disciples, and a great throng of people from all Yahdah and Yerusalem and the coastal region of Tyre and Sidon, Could seventy constitute a large crowd? Yes, it could, but, the scriptures indicate that Jesus had even more than that! Lukyah 10:1 Now after this the Master appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where he himself was going to come. If there were seventy “others“, then we can assume that there are more besides the others. Yahshua commanded his disciples to “Go and make more disciples” Strange how when someone becomes a believer, they call themselves “Christian”, but back then, they were called disciples. To be a disciple should be the goal. Yahchanan 4:1 – Therefore when the Master knew that the Pharisees had heard that Yahshua was making and immersing more disciples than Yahchanan Yahshua said: “Go and make disciples”. Once a disciple is made, the command then falls to him to go and make disciples. In the true order of things, there should, by now, be more disciples than we could count. The word 'disciple' in Hebrew is 'talmud' and simply means 'student' in our English language. Miriam, Yahshua's mother was most certainly one of his disciples (students), since Yahshua said “no man comes unto the Father, but by me.” She surely did not ignore and choose not to listen to anything that her son had to teach! GOT IT!   “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Jn 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Jn 17:7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. Jn 17:8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. Jn 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. Jn 17:10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. Jn 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. Jn 17:12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. HOW MANY HIS IT NOW BIG ONE

Pieear,

Are you asking me for a count?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,10:55)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,10:32) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,10:05) Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,09:36) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,04:28) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2012,12:40) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 11 2012,19:15) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2012,11:56) f scriptures says MAIDEN  I think Yes, I do not believe that she was actually a “virgin” when she gave birth to Yahshua. f does it matter she was a surrogate mother to Christ ,the son of God Pieear, I also do not believe that Miriam was a surrogate mother to Yahshua. I believe that Yahseph was the biological father of Yahshua. Pieear, Well, does it matter is Yahshua pre-existed his birth or not? I also do not believe that Miriam was a surrogate mother to Yahshua. I believe that Yahseph was the biological father of Yahshua. PAREIDOLIA Hi Frank, Jesus is God's only begotten son; 'YOU' do not believe this Biblical truth? God bless Ed J Ed J, I believe that it is a Scriptural truth that Yahshua is Father Yahweh's only begotten son. There are many more sons (daughters, children) to be “born (begotten) again” of Father Yahweh. These many other sons (daughters, children) who will also be begotten (born again) also previously had biological earthly fathers and mothers just as Yahshua did. PAREIDOLIA … Hi Frank, Jesus is no longer (according to Frank) God's only begotten son.       …is this what you believe? Have you not changed the meaning of the word “Begotten” then? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, I am not the one who determines who or how many are of Yahweh's children. Have you not changed the meaning of the word “Begotten” then?

Ed J,

Look up the meaning and see if I have changed it!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ July 11 2012,17:54)

Hi Mike, God is going to tabernacle in all his children (2 Cor 6:16). …that is what those verses mean. …do you not believe this?

I believe 6:16 is speaking of when New Jerusalem comes down from God in heaven. Compare verse 17 “come out of her” with the words of Rev. Also compare what God says in Rev after New Jerusalem comes down.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 11 2012,17:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,10:39) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 11 2012,17:05) …………..previously had biological earthly fathers and mothers just as Yahshua did. Luke 3:23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, Mike, Oh! How convenient! Some translations ADD “so it was thought, (as [it] was supposed), so people thought”!

How do you know those words are an addition, Frank? They are in the Greek mss, right?

Also, since I didn't notice a flippant remark about Luke 1:34, I assume you know longer think Mary wasn't a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,05:51)

Quote (kerwin @ July 11 2012,17:31) Mike; You wish an answer according to the letter of the Word and I answered according to the spirit. I don't have time for this mish-mash, Kerwin.  The answer to my question is, “NO, love is never said to have been 'begotten', nor is it ever said to have displayed the glory of the only begotten of God”. Nor are those things ever said about any spoken utterance from Jehovah's mouth.  When people speak, they aren't “begetting” words from their mouth, Kerwin. Your whole argument is nonsense, based on illogical uses of language and grammar.

Mike;

Don't you believe that God's children are begotten through his Word?

Since you believe that then why do you have trouble believing he begot his Word; and in the Word is love; which is the light and life of men?

[mikeboll64]

I don't think “begot” is the right word to use of an utterance that came out of someone's mouth, Kerwin.  Nor have you likely ever said you “begot” any of the words you have spoken in your lifetime.  

You said:

Quote

and in the Word is love; which is the light and life of men?

I know it is scriptural that in the Word is life.  (John 1:4)  And I know it's scriptural that in Jesus is life.  (1 John 5:11)

I don't know about children of God being begotten “through His word”.  Scripture?

[terraricca]

kerwin

[Ed J]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,11:15)

Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,10:55) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,10:32) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,10:05) Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,09:36) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,04:28) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2012,12:40) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 11 2012,19:15) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2012,11:56) f scriptures says MAIDEN  I think Yes, I do not believe that she was actually a “virgin” when she gave birth to Yahshua. f does it matter she was a surrogate mother to Christ ,the son of God Pieear, I also do not believe that Miriam was a surrogate mother to Yahshua. I believe that Yahseph was the biological father of Yahshua. Pieear, Well, does it matter is Yahshua pre-existed his birth or not? I also do not believe that Miriam was a surrogate mother to Yahshua. I believe that Yahseph was the biological father of Yahshua. PAREIDOLIA Hi Frank, Jesus is God's only begotten son; 'YOU' do not believe this Biblical truth? God bless Ed J Ed J, I believe that it is a Scriptural truth that Yahshua is Father Yahweh's only begotten son. There are many more sons (daughters, children) to be “born (begotten) again” of Father Yahweh. These many other sons (daughters, children) who will also be begotten (born again) also previously had biological earthly fathers and mothers just as Yahshua did. PAREIDOLIA … Hi Frank, Jesus is no longer (according to Frank) God's only begotten son.       …is this what you believe? Have you not changed the meaning of the word “Begotten” then? God bless Ed J Ed J, I am not the one who determines who or how many are of Yahweh's children. Have you not changed the meaning of the word “Begotten” then? Ed J, Look up the meaning and see if I have changed it!

Hi Frank, allow me to change the question so we can understand your belief then.

When do you believe Yashua was begotten of by God?

1. At conception/birth
2. At baptism
3. At resurrection?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,13:32)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,11:15) Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,10:55) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,10:32) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,10:05) Quote (Ed J @ July 12 2012,09:36) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 12 2012,04:28) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2012,12:40) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 11 2012,19:15) Quote (terraricca @ July 11 2012,11:56) f scriptures says MAIDEN  I think Yes, I do not believe that she was actually a “virgin” when she gave birth to Yahshua. f does it matter she was a surrogate mother to Christ ,the son of God Pieear, I also do not believe that Miriam was a surrogate mother to Yahshua. I believe that Yahseph was the biological father of Yahshua. Pieear, Well, does it matter is Yahshua pre-existed his birth or not? I also do not believe that Miriam was a surrogate mother to Yahshua. I believe that Yahseph was the biological father of Yahshua. PAREIDOLIA Hi Frank, Jesus is God's only begotten son; 'YOU' do not believe this Biblical truth? God bless Ed J Ed J, I believe that it is a Scriptural truth that Yahshua is Father Yahweh's only begotten son. There are many more sons (daughters, children) to be “born (begotten) again” of Father Yahweh. These many other sons (daughters, children) who will also be begotten (born again) also previously had biological earthly fathers and mothers just as Yahshua did. PAREIDOLIA … Hi Frank, Jesus is no longer (according to Frank) God's only begotten son.       …is this what you believe? Have you not changed the meaning of the word “Begotten” then? God bless Ed J Ed J, I am not the one who determines who or how many are of Yahweh's children. Have you not changed the meaning of the word “Begotten” then? Ed J, Look up the meaning and see if I have changed it!   Hi Frank, allow me to change the question so we can understand your belief then. When do you believe Yashua was begotten of by God? 1. At conception/birth 2. At baptism 3. At resurrection? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J,

Since when did you take interest in understanding what it is that I believe? Since you said “we”, are you taking it upon yourself to speak for others in that they are interested in understanding what it is that I believe? It seems to me that you would already be aware of why some do not believe that Miriam was a virgin when she gave birth to Yahshua and that Yahseph was his biological father.

PAREIDOLIA

…

[mikeboll64]

This is the first I'm hearing of either of those UNSCRIPTURAL claims, Frank.  Can you enlighten us IN YOUR OWN WORDS?

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,09:56)

Quote (942767 @ July 11 2012,15:36) This the propetic Word of God which is not a spiritual being who became flesh otherwise you would have and “the Word was God” which you say is Jesus and if so, “Jesus is God” and “the Word became flesh” or “God became flesh”. Marty, You will NEVER come to a true understanding of scripture until you rid yourself of the Trinitarian translation, “and the Word was God”.  Using this flawed translation, it wouldn't matter WHAT the Word was, because John 1:14 will ALWAYS end up teaching that God became flesh. It's a simple equation: THE WORD WAS GOD + THE WORD BECAME FLESH = GOD BECAME FLESH Now, it appears that you don't believe God became flesh, right?  Neither do I.  But there is no SENSIBLE way around God becoming flesh when using that flawed translation of John 1:1c. Nor does that flawed translation make a lick of sense to begin with.  Marty, when you wrote the post I'm responding to, was Marty with you? See?  If you ARE Marty, there is no way you can also be WITH Marty.  The only way MARTY can be with MARTY is if there are more than one MARTY.  And the only way GOD can be with GOD is if there are more than one GOD. Marty, John 1:1 speaks of a Word who was with THE God in the beginning, and was also a god.  This one, as a god himself, was existing in the form of THE God, but became flesh (emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being). Eventually, you will know this for a fact.  I'm just trying to get you there a little sooner.

Hi Mike:

And so, if you translate John 1:1c as you want to say it should be, “a god was with God” and a god was God, and “a god” became flesh.

Is this what you want me to believe?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 13 2012,12:26)

This is the first I'm hearing of either of those UNSCRIPTURAL claims, Frank.  Can you enlighten us IN YOUR OWN WORDS?

Mike,

Now you want to be enlighten “IN [MY] OWN WORDS” by what you believe to be “UNSCRIPTURAL claims”?  

PAREIDOLIA

…

[942767]

Hi Ed:

God was “justified in the spirit”? No, God did not become flesh. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.

Quote

2Cr 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

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