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Hi,
We are given an earnest of the Spirit.
But as half the bridesmaids discover that is not sufficient to enter the wedding feast.Ask seek knock
2Peter 1 also shows we should be queuing up for more.
Being satisfied with some knowledge and a little understanding just feeds vanity.
Hi,
Matthew 13:12
For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.Matthew 25:29
“ For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.Mark 4:25
For whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.”Luke 8:18
So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him.”Luke 19:26
I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.Quote (Ed J @ June 15 2012,06:24) Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within
Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God.
Hi Nick,“If the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell
in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken
your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.” (Romans 8:11)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Nick,
Jesus was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our righteousification. (Romans 4:25)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (journey42 @ June 14 2012,15:25)
Hi EdjWhat your saying is that the Word is the holy spirit. This is error and so wrong to teach.
The holy spirit is in the WordHere is an example I heard someone say,
The sugar is in the coffee, but the sugar is not the coffee. We say, I am drinking coffee, but never say I am drinking sugar, although the sugar is in it.
Journey,You ere as I have heard a person be accused of drinking sugar; instead of coffee; to emphasize the role that sugar plays. I believe it always was in regards to heavy concentration of sugar.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:28) …………and that declaration was with God as His project, and it was fully expressive of God Himself.
Hmmmm………….Does “was fully expressive of God Himself” have the same meaning as saying this project WAS God Himself?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:28) And the word became a human being and tabernacled among us……………
What particular human being did the word become, Frank?Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:43) The Son never goes back to the Father. Jesus never says he will be returning to the Father as if he had
been with Him previously, but:
“…was going to God” (John 13:3).
“I am going my way to the Father” (John 14:12, 28;
16:28).“I am going to the Father” (John 16:10, 17).
“I am ascending to my Father” (John 20:17).What about John 6:62, Frank? Jesus asked, “What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!”
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:43) What About 1 Timothy 3:16? “Who was manifested in flesh” (KIT). “He was
revealed in flesh” (NRSV).
James Dunn tells us that “manifested”
(ephanerothe) simply means “appeared”:
“Without any implication of previous hiddenness
(cp John 9:3; Rom. 3:21; 2 Cor. 3:3; 4:10; 5:10; 1 John
3:5, 8), so that the context becomes of crucial
importance in determining the intended meaning of the
text…In this case, there is no indication that the thought
was intended to include a third stage of existence prior
to appearance on earth…[that is] without any intention of
implying a previous [pre-existent] hiddenness.”
You man says “manifested” simply means “appeared”. Now why would Paul write that Jesus “appeared IN THE FLESH”, Frank? Flesh as opposed to what? Had Jesus never been anything BUT flesh, then there would be no reason to use the words “in the flesh”. This is similar Paul mentioning “born of a woman” in Gal 4:4. What other option would there have been if Jesus was never anything EXCEPT “born of a woman”?Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:53) A verse that goes hand in hand with the phrase “came down from heaven” is Jn.6:62;
“What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?” Yahshua's
origin is not in question here. Those who reject the pre-existence doctrine should not
reject Yahshua's heavenly origin or that his father was Yahweh. Yahshua was, at one
time, in heaven. He existed in the loins of His Father Yahweh……………
Frank,This has to be one of the weakest cut and pastes you ever posted here. The whole thing revolves around your guy saying, It doesn't have to mean Jesus came from heaven. It could mean something else! Yet his examples of what “else” it could mean are laughable at best.
I mean, look at your guy's grand finale, which I quoted above………. He knows that Jesus was talking about returning to heaven, where he was before, yet blows off these powerful words from Jesus by saying, Sure, he DID pre-exist, but in the loins of God instead of as a person.
This smacks of a man who KNOWS what the scripture is actually teaching, but doesn't WANT the scripture to be teaching this, and so opts for a nonsensical alternative that conforms better to his own man-made doctrine.
Was it “in the loins of God” that Jesus had glory alongside God before the world was made through him?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 15 2012,10:12) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:28) And the word became a human being and tabernacled among us……………
What particular human being did the word become, Frank?
hi MB,
Quite.
Jesus became the Word, Jesus Christ.Quote (Ed J @ June 14 2012,13:43) “If the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell
in you………………..
Ed,Who or what is “the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus”?
And who or what is the “him” to whom that Spirit belongs?
Did Jesus Empty Himself of Any Divine Attributes?
by Servetus the EvangelicalThe Apostle Paul wrote to the Christians at Philippi, exhorting them to be humble
and love one another (Philippians 2.1-4). Then he added what all modern scholars insist
is a pre-existing hymn whose composer remains unknown. Paul introduces this hymn by
telling readers, “Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus” (v. 5).
Then he begins the hymn by saying, “who, although He existed in the form of God, did
not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form
of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men …” (vv. 6-7).
Philippians 2.6-11 has had a most profound impact on the history of Christology.
H.E. Todt says of it, “Christological doctrine has been developed in Protestantism mainly
with regard to the concepts expressed in Phil. 2. The synoptic texts were interpreted to
conform to this passage.” It should have been vice versa.
Consequently, Philippians 2.6-11 has been hotly debated among modern scholars.
N.T. Wright says the main reason is that it “is one of the most notoriously complex
passages” in all of Paul’s New Testament (NT) letters. Due to the necessary brevity of this
article, we will only be able to scratch the surface of this scholarly discussion.
Two contrasting interpretations of Philippians 2.6-11 have prevailed among scholars.
The traditional “incarnational” or “preexistent interpretation,” which still dominates to
the present, means that vv. 6-7 presents Jesus as personally existing in heaven prior to his
earthly life and being equal with God the Father. The “anthropological” or “human
interpretation,” which is gaining favor with scholars, means that vv. 6-8 refers only to
Jesus’ earthly life and therefore has nothing to do with preexistence or incarnation.
Those who adopt the preexistent interpretation of this Philippians 2 hymn view it in
three stages: preexistence in v. 6, incarnation in vv. 7-8, and heavenly exaltation in vv. 9-
11. They interpret “form of God” in v. 6 as Jesus having preexisted eternally as a distinct
hypostasis or Person, being the Logos of John 1.1-18, by possessing the same divine
nature as that of God the Father, which makes him equal with the Father.
How one interprets the expression, “in the form of God” (Gr. en morphe theou),
largely determines the interpretation of the remainder of the hymn. This critical phrase is
difficult partly because, except for cognates, morphe (“form”) occurs only twice in the
Greek NT, both being here in vv. 6-7. In most Greek literature, morphe means “outward
appearance,” that is, what can be perceived only by the senses. So, “form of God” seems
to refer to Jesus’ bodily existence rather than a pre-temporal, ontological preexistence.
Proponents of the human interpretation of Philippians 2.6-11 have searched the Old
Testament (OT) for links to this hymn as the key to understanding its author’s intended
meaning. Thus, they link Jesus existing “in the form of God” with Adam being made in
the “image (of God),” as in Genesis 1.27; 5.3. In support, Paul elsewhere describes Jesus
as God’s “image” (Greek eikon; 2 Corinthians 4.4; Col 1.15). Accordingly, the hymn
begins by saying Jesus was in the image of God, like Adam, called Adam Christology.
What does the hymn mean by saying that Jesus “did not regard equality with God a
thing to be grasped”? Scholars who adopt the preexistent interpretation usually insist it
means that prior to Jesus’ incarnation, as the Logos, he possessed “equality with God
and relinquished it at the moment of incarnation. But if the Logos could have grasped at
equality with God, He did not possess it and thus could not have been equal with God.
Proponents of the human interpretation of this hymn link “equality with God” to
“like God” in Genesis 3.5. Recall that Adam sinned because Satan deceived Eve, saying
that if she ate the forbidden fruit, “you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” This lie
means they could attain “equality with God” regarding knowledge and wisdom (v. 6).
What does the hymn mean by saying that Jesus “emptied Himself”? Proponents of
the preexistent interpretation of the hymn have understood this mostly in one of two
ways, that at Jesus’ incarnation he divested himself of his relative divine attributes or he
merely chose not to exercise some of them during his incarnation. These suggestions are
called Kenotic Christology because the root word for “emptied” in the Greek text is
kenosis. But either of these suggestions raises serious problems. A divesture of any of
these divine attributes—for example, omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence—
would have been necessary because they are incompatible with being human, yet such
divesture necessarily results in something less than full deity.
Some proponents of the human interpretation have linked “emptied Himself” (Gr.
heauton ekenosen) with “poured out Himself to death” (Heb. nephesho lamoot herah) in
Isaiah 53.12. Joachim Jeremias convincingly championed this background for the hymn.
He said of these words in Philippians 2.7, “The use of Is. 53:12 shows that the expression
heauton ekenosen implies the surrender of life, not the kenosis of the incarnation.”
Indeed. Paul introduced this hymn by saying, “Do nothing from selfishness or empty
conceit, but with humility of mind” (Philippians 2.3), which he says was Jesus’ attitude
(v. 5). Therefore, Paul likely understood this hymn to mean that Jesus emptied Himself of
self by submitting to God’s plan for his life. It is the cross of Christ, not incarnation,
which is the epitome of Jesus’ self-denial depicted in the NT. And it is only in this sense,
rather than incarnation, that Paul can legitimately set forth an example for his readers to
follow. Therefore, Jesus did not deny himself by laying aside or suppressing certain
divine attributes at his birth, but by doing acts of moral character throughout his life that
culminated in death on a cross, resulting in salvation for all those who believe in him.
In my book, The Restitution of Jesus Christ, I devote 21 pages to the interpretation of
Philippians 2.5-11. In doing so, I cite 45 scholars and their works plus 4 church fathers.
SOURCEQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 15 2012,10:33) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:53) A verse that goes hand in hand with the phrase “came down from heaven” is Jn.6:62;
“What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?” Yahshua's
origin is not in question here. Those who reject the pre-existence doctrine should not
reject Yahshua's heavenly origin or that his father was Yahweh. Yahshua was, at one
time, in heaven. He existed in the loins of His Father Yahweh……………
Frank,This has to be one of the weakest cut and pastes you ever posted here. The whole thing revolves around your guy saying, It doesn't have to mean Jesus came from heaven. It could mean something else! Yet his examples of what “else” it could mean are laughable at best.
I mean, look at your guy's grand finale, which I quoted above………. He knows that Jesus was talking about returning to heaven, where he was before, yet blows off these powerful words from Jesus by saying, Sure, he DID pre-exist, but in the loins of God instead of as a person.
This smacks of a man who KNOWS what the scripture is actually teaching, but doesn't WANT the scripture to be teaching this, and so opts for a nonsensical alternative that conforms better to his own man-made doctrine.
Was it “in the loins of God” that Jesus had glory alongside God before the world was made through him?
Mike,You did not like that one! Well, I wonder why?
Did Jesus Come Down from Heaven?
by Servetus the EvangelicalThe institutional church has always claimed that the Bible says Jesus preexisted as
God in heaven and came down to earth to become a man, called “the incarnation.” The
Nicene Creed says of Jesus, “For us men and our salvation he came down from heaven.”
The church also has claimed the incarnation is based on the Bible. Yet there is
nothing in the first three gospels of the New Testament (NT) to indicate this. In contrast,
the church has cited the Gospel of John as incontrovertible evidence of the incarnation
(cf. John 1.1, 14). Indeed, this gospel presents a flurry of texts which seem to proclaim
that Jesus preexisted and that he came down from heaven to become a man (1.15, 30;
3.13; 6.27-63; 8.58; 17.5, 24).
But should these Johannine texts be interpreted literally? In the 3rd century, church
father Clement of Alexandria referred to the Gospel of John as “the spiritual gospel,” and
scholars ever since have rightly endorsed this label. It is because the Johannine Jesus used
so many metaphors. The most well-known is when he told Nicodemus he needed to be
“born again,” and he thought Jesus meant a second physical birth (John 3.3). At the end
of Jesus’ ministry he told the Eleven, “I have spoken to you in figurative language; an
hour is coming when I will speak no more to you in figurative language but will tell you
plainly” (16.25; cf. 10.6). He explained his mission and the disciples replied, “Lo, now
You are speaking plainly, and are not using a figure of speech” (16.29). So, the Gospel of
John provides the ultimate reality—the spiritual meaning that lies behind Jesus’ words.
Forty times the Gospel of John says God “sent” Jesus or words to that effect. Such
language does not indicate sent from heaven but merely sent in the prophetic tradition,
that is, God sending someone to do a mission, as he did with John the Baptist (John 1.6).
Most of the supposedly preexistence passages in the Gospel of John describe Jesus as
having “come down” either “from heaven” or “from above.” Traditionalists (those who
believe Jesus is God) have interpreted these texts literally; yet the spiritual nature of this
gospel should caution us to undertake further examination. For example, Nicodemus did
not mean preexistence when he told Jesus, “You have come from God” (John 3.2).
Twice this gospel records that John the Baptist said Jesus “has a higher rank than I,
for He existed before me” (John 1.15, 30). These statements have been taken to infer that
Jesus preexisted, since he was born at least six months after John was (Luke 1.26, 36).
But some Bible versions translate the last clause, “for he was before me” (AV, NRSV, NIV),
meaning rank. And this is what John means when he twice says of Jesus, “He who comes
from above/heaven is above all” (3.31), meaning “over all.”
Also, the Johannine Jesus proclaimed, “no one has ascended into heaven, but He who
descended from heaven: the Son of Man” (John 3.13). Most scholars arbitrarily reverse
this ascending/descending order, so that the supposedly preexistent Jesus descended from
heaven at the incarnation and ascended after his resurrection. But the context demands
otherwise. Jesus tells Nicodemus he must be born “from above” with a spiritual birth
(John 3.3-5). Plus, Jesus as the Son of Man alludes in Daniel 7.13-14, in which this figure
ascends to God’s heavenly throne to receive a kingdom consisting of humans and then
presumably bringing it to earth (cf. Luke 19.11-12), thus an ascending/descending order.Many Christians think the foremost preexistence passage in the Gospel of John about
Jesus coming down from heaven is his lengthy Bread of Life discourse in John 6.25-65,
which contains lots of descent language. Yet this graphic picture is full of metaphors.
Jesus describes himself as “the (living) bread that came down out of heaven” (6.41, 51,
58). Even though he obviously does not mean he is literal bread, nearly all readers of this
gospel have thought that he meant it literally, thus inferring his personal preexistence and
incarnation. Yet Jesus also said in this discourse that people need to eat his flesh and
drink his blood, and if they do they will never hunger or thirst again but live forever (vv.
50-58). Many of Jesus’ hearers grumbled that these were difficult words (vv. 41, 60-61),
and many of his disciples no longer followed him because of it (v. 66). Yet Jesus had just
explained that he was speaking figuratively by saying, “the words that I have spoken to
you are spirit and are life” (v. 63). If the bread, flesh, blood, hunger, and thirst are strictly
metaphors intended spiritually and not literally, can we justify treating the only other idea
in this account any differently—Jesus coming down from heaven?
Later, Jesus said to his unbelieving Jewish interlocutors, “You are from below, I am
from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world” (John 8.23). He surely does not
mean he literally preexisted and came from heaven. If so, to be consistent he also would
have to mean his opponents literally came from below. So, in all such Johannine passages
Jesus does not indicate literal origin but spiritual reality. That is, he is associated with
God and heaven whereas they are associated with the devil and hell (cf. 8.44).
In Jesus’ high priestly prayer uttered prior to his capture and arrest, he prayed, “Now,
Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the
world was…. My glory which You
have given Me; for You loved Me before the
foundation of the world” (John 17.5, 24). This seems to indicate that Jesus preexisted in
heaven prior to creation, when he possessed a glory he apparently shared with God.
But Jesus could be referring to the Shekinah glory which accompanied the Israelites.
He could have meant that, in God’s mind and prior to creation, God loved his Son whom
he foreknew (cf. Ephesians 1.4; 1 Peter 1.20), for whom he predestined the Shekinah.
Indeed, Judaism taught that the Shekinah glory was predestined for the Messiah.
In sum, it seems that all language in the Gospel of John about Jesus preexisting and
coming down from heaven was intended metaphorically in this spiritual gospel.
SOURCEQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 14 2012,19:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 15 2012,10:33) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:53) A verse that goes hand in hand with the phrase “came down from heaven” is Jn.6:62;
“What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?” Yahshua's
origin is not in question here. Those who reject the pre-existence doctrine should not
reject Yahshua's heavenly origin or that his father was Yahweh. Yahshua was, at one
time, in heaven. He existed in the loins of His Father Yahweh……………
Frank,This has to be one of the weakest cut and pastes you ever posted here. The whole thing revolves around your guy saying, It doesn't have to mean Jesus came from heaven. It could mean something else! Yet his examples of what “else” it could mean are laughable at best.
I mean, look at your guy's grand finale, which I quoted above………. He knows that Jesus was talking about returning to heaven, where he was before, yet blows off these powerful words from Jesus by saying, Sure, he DID pre-exist, but in the loins of God instead of as a person.
This smacks of a man who KNOWS what the scripture is actually teaching, but doesn't WANT the scripture to be teaching this, and so opts for a nonsensical alternative that conforms better to his own man-made doctrine.
Was it “in the loins of God” that Jesus had glory alongside God before the world was made through him?
Mike,You did not like that one! Well, I wonder why?
I told you why in my post, Frank.How about addressing the points I made in that post? Or at the very least, answer the last question.
(Btw, don't you find it interesting that the guy you quoted DOES believe Jesus pre-existed? I do.
)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 15 2012,12:45) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 14 2012,19:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 15 2012,10:33) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:53) A verse that goes hand in hand with the phrase “came down from heaven” is Jn.6:62;
“What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?” Yahshua's
origin is not in question here. Those who reject the pre-existence doctrine should not
reject Yahshua's heavenly origin or that his father was Yahweh. Yahshua was, at one
time, in heaven. He existed in the loins of His Father Yahweh……………
Frank,This has to be one of the weakest cut and pastes you ever posted here. The whole thing revolves around your guy saying, It doesn't have to mean Jesus came from heaven. It could mean something else! Yet his examples of what “else” it could mean are laughable at best.
I mean, look at your guy's grand finale, which I quoted above………. He knows that Jesus was talking about returning to heaven, where he was before, yet blows off these powerful words from Jesus by saying, Sure, he DID pre-exist, but in the loins of God instead of as a person.
This smacks of a man who KNOWS what the scripture is actually teaching, but doesn't WANT the scripture to be teaching this, and so opts for a nonsensical alternative that conforms better to his own man-made doctrine.
Was it “in the loins of God” that Jesus had glory alongside God before the world was made through him?
Mike,You did not like that one! Well, I wonder why?
I told you why in my post, Frank.How about addressing the points I made in that post? Or at the very least, answer the last question.
(Btw, don't you find it interesting that the guy you quoted DOES believe Jesus pre-existed? I do.
)
Mike,You now rate with me as I have previously rated Nick. I will be no longer responding to your posts, so you need not respond to mine.
Hi:
The seed of God is His Word. The Word of God is that which He has spoken, and His Word pertaining to Jesus became flesh in John 1:14.
The angel Gabriel spoke to then virgin Mary saying:
Quote 26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God
And the Logos, or Word of God that he spoke to the virgin Mary became flesh:
Quote 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
But this was foreordained from the beginning of creation, and so, John 1 states in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
Quote 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily WAS FOREORDAINED before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ June 15 2012,12:56) Hi: The seed of God is His Word. The Word of God is that which He has spoken, and His Word pertaining to Jesus became flesh in John 1:14.
The angel Gabriel spoke to then virgin Mary saying:
Quote 26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God
And the Logos, or Word of God that he spoke to the virgin Mary became flesh:
Quote 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
But this was foreordained from the beginning of creation, and so, John 1 states in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
Quote 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily WAS FOREORDAINED before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Great post!
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