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Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,10:37) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,15:40) Mike, You keep telling me that I can not say what I have said when in fact, I have already said it!
Actually Frank,My point was that you can't honestly say, “Jesus is not the Word of God”. You can physically say (or type) it all you want – but it won't be true.
Mike,
Yes, I can honestly say Yahshua is not the word of Yahweh and I can honestly say that what I have said is true, since I am not as foolish as you to believe such foolishness.
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,10:59) Ed, Of all the prophets God has spoken through, Jesus is the only one who is said to be called by the name “the Word of God”.
Hi Mike,No-where is this stated?
You only believe it because that
is what the systems of religion teach.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 14 2012,11:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,10:59) Ed, Of all the prophets God has spoken through, Jesus is the only one who is said to be called by the name “the Word of God”.
Hi Mike,No-where is this stated?
You only believe it because that
is what the systems of religion teach.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi EdjMike is correct.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
regards
JourneyQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,10:59) Ed, Of all the prophets God has spoken through, Jesus is the only one who is said to be called by the name “the Word of God”.
Mike,Certainly Yahshua is unique, since he is also the only prophet referred to as “a great high priest” in Scripture:
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Yahshua the son of Yahweh, let us hold fast our profession (Hebrews 4:14).
For the word of Yahweh is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart (Hebrews 4:12).
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Frank,
You already agree that the one called “the Word of God” in Rev 19 is Jesus. So you can play word games if you want to, but you will never be able to honestly say that Jesus is not “the Word of God”, because scripture says he is.
Quote (journey42 @ June 14 2012,11:31) Quote (Ed J @ June 14 2012,11:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,10:59) Ed, Of all the prophets God has spoken through, Jesus is the only one who is said to be called by the name “the Word of God”.
Hi Mike,No-where is this stated?
You only believe it because that
is what the systems of religion teach.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi EdjMike is correct.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
regards
Journey
Hi Georgie,“The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!
And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !
Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood.
Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garmentsRevelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress
Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress aloneRev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God.
Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit withinBut they rebelled, and vexed
his HolySpirit: therefore he
was turned to be their enemy,
and he fought against them.Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger
…and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,
that with it He should smite the nations.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (journey42 @ June 14 2012,11:31) Quote (Ed J @ June 14 2012,11:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,10:59) Ed, Of all the prophets God has spoken through, Jesus is the only one who is said to be called by the name “the Word of God”.
Hi Mike,No-where is this stated?
You only believe it because that
is what the systems of religion teach.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi EdjMike is correct.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
regards
Journey
journey42,Go back and read the posts. This is not what we are saying that Mike is not correct about. Yes, Mike is correct in that Scripture does say that Yahshua is called “The Word of Yahweh”, but he is not correct in saying “Yahshua IS the Word of Yahweh”, since Scripture nowhere says this. I myself am also in disagreement with Mike in saying that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as Father Yahweh's word and as “a god”. It seems that Mike is attempting to convince me that Yahshua pre-existed his birth and was with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as Yahweh's word and as “a god”. It seems that Mike can not get it through his thick head that I will never believe such foolishness, since nowhere in Scripture am I ever asked to believe and confess that Yahshua pre-existed his birth or that he was “God” or “a god” with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. I have no problem with his believing such foolishness, but to attempt to tell me that Scripture teaches such foolishness, I believe is futile on his part. It also seems that Mike is not satisfied that I believe and confess that Yahshua is the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh as Scripture plainly asks me to believe and confess, but that he believes that I should also believe and confess that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as Father Yahweh's word and as “a god” in the beginning. Again, I will never believe such foolishness!
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,11:49) Frank, You already agree that the one called “the Word of God” in Rev 19 is Jesus. So you can play word games if you want to, but you will never be able to honestly say that Jesus is not “the Word of God”, because scripture says he is.
Mike,No, Scripture surely does not say ANYWHERE “Yahshua IS the word of Yahweh.”! This is not a “word game”. I am certainly not going to add unto Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word the word phase “Yahshua IS the word of Yahweh.” when it simply is not there in ANY translation that I am aware of!
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Frank,
First of all, Ed doesn't believe Rev 19:13 speaks of Jesus. He thinks it is the Holy Spirit who is called “the Word of God” in that verse.
Secondly, it IS a word game you play. If the chairman of the board was a guy named “John”, then we could say “John is the chairman”. Now of course, John isn't literally half chair, half man, is he? Just as Jesus is not literally any spoken word of Jehovah.
Yet just as we can call John the chairman because it is his title, we can call Jesus the Word of God because it is his title. And just as John is the chairman, Jesus is the Word of God.
And just as people would roll their eyes at you if you walked into the board meeting claiming that John really wasn't the chairman because he's not half chair half man, many of us here are rolling our eyes at you concerning this similar, childish, word game you are attempting to play.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,12:53) Frank, First of all, Ed doesn't believe Rev 19:13 speaks of Jesus. He thinks it is the Holy Spirit who is called “the Word of God” in that verse.
Secondly, it IS a word game you play. If the chairman of the board was a guy named “John”, then we could say “John is the chairman”. Now of course, John isn't literally half chair, half man, is he? Just as Jesus is not literally any spoken word of Jehovah.
Yet just as we can call John the chairman because it is his title, we can call Jesus the Word of God because it is his title. And just as John is the chairman, Jesus is the Word of God.
And just as people would roll their eyes at you if you walked into the board meeting claiming that John really wasn't the chairman because he's not half chair half man, many of us here are rolling our eyes at you concerning this similar, childish, word game you are attempting to play.
Mike,Surely you know by now that I am not in agreement with Ed J!
It is you that plays word games as is evident from your last post, not I! My belief is in Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word and not in your word games. Your word game is adding unto Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word and in turn taking away from His word. You have yet to show me from ANY translation of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word where it even EVER says “Jesus IS the word of God.” Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Frank,
This is silly. Jesus IS the one called by the name “the Word of God”. I believe that John 1:1 speaks of the one called by the name “the Word of God” being with God in the beginning.
I believe John 1:14 speaks of the one called by the name “the Word of God” becoming flesh.
I believe 1 John 1:1 speaks of the disciples seeing and touching the one called by the name “the Word of God”.
You obviously haven't yet received this truth, and so there's really no reason to keep going on about it. I have challenged all of you to show ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE that would prohibit my understanding from being the truth. I have made this challenge many times over the past couple of years – and to date, not one scripture has been brought forth from any of you non-preexisters.
On the other side of the coin, I and some others here have compiled a list of over 50 scriptures that speak concerning the preexistence of Jesus. Hmmmmm………. 50 pros, 0 cons so far.
Frank, some of those 50 scriptures are as straightforward as Jesus himself saying, “I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN”, and some of you will see me “ASCEND TO WHERE I WAS BEFORE”.
We offer these, and you offer squat. What more is there to discuss?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 14 2012,13:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,12:53) Frank, First of all, Ed doesn't believe Rev 19:13 speaks of Jesus. He thinks it is the Holy Spirit who is called “the Word of God” in that verse.
Secondly, it IS a word game you play. If the chairman of the board was a guy named “John”, then we could say “John is the chairman”. Now of course, John isn't literally half chair, half man, is he? Just as Jesus is not literally any spoken word of Jehovah.
Yet just as we can call John the chairman because it is his title, we can call Jesus the Word of God because it is his title. And just as John is the chairman, Jesus is the Word of God.
And just as people would roll their eyes at you if you walked into the board meeting claiming that John really wasn't the chairman because he's not half chair half man, many of us here are rolling our eyes at you concerning this similar, childish, word game you are attempting to play.
Mike,Surely you know by now that I am not in agreement with Ed J!
It is you that plays word games as is evident from your last post, not I! My belief is in Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word and not in your word games. Your word game is adding unto Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word and in turn taking away from His word. You have yet to show me from ANY translation of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word where it even EVER says “Jesus IS the word of God.” Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Mike,BTW, I forgot to mention, the sword of the spirit is Father Yahweh's word!
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,13:07) Frank, This is silly. Jesus IS the one called by the name “the Word of God”. I believe that John 1:1 speaks of the one called by the name “the Word of God” being with God in the beginning.
I believe John 1:14 speaks of the one called by the name “the Word of God” becoming flesh.
I believe 1 John 1:1 speaks of the disciples seeing and touching the one called by the name “the Word of God”.
You obviously haven't yet received this truth, and so there's really no reason to keep going on about it. I have challenged all of you to show ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE that would prohibit my understanding from being the truth. I have made this challenge many times over the past couple of years – and to date, not one scripture has been brought forth from any of you non-preexisters.
On the other side of the coin, I and some others here have compiled a list of over 50 scriptures that speak concerning the preexistence of Jesus. Hmmmmm………. 50 pros, 0 cons so far.
Frank, some of those 50 scriptures are as straightforward as Jesus himself saying, “I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN”, and some of you will see me “ASCEND TO WHERE I WAS BEFORE”.
We offer these, and you offer squat. What more is there to discuss?
Mike,It is quite obvious that you are the one who is silly!
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:05)
Surely you know by now that I am not in agreement with Ed J!
Then you probably shouldn't have told journey “This is not what we are saying that Mike is not correct about.” Because that IS what Ed is trying to tell journey I'm not correct about.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:05) You have yet to show me from ANY translation of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word where it even EVER says “Jesus IS the word of God.”
Nor is there any scripture that specifically says, “Our Father Yahweh, who is in heaven, is the One who created the heavens and the earth”. Yet we know it to be true from context and other scriptures, don't we? Your point is null and void.Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,13:13) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:05)
Surely you know by now that I am not in agreement with Ed J!
Then you probably shouldn't have told journey “This is not what we are saying that Mike is not correct about.” Because that IS what Ed is trying to tell journey I'm not correct about.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:05) You have yet to show me from ANY translation of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word where it even EVER says “Jesus IS the word of God.”
Nor is there any scripture that specifically says, “Our Father Yahweh, who is in heaven, is the One who created the heavens and the earth”. Yet we know it to be true from context and other scriptures, don't we? Your point is null and void.
Mike,It is obviously you who is null and void!
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
In the beginning there was God’s Grand Design, the declaration of His Intention and Purpose, and that declaration was with God as His project, and it was fully expressive of God Himself. This was with God in the beginning. Everything came into being through it, and without it nothing of what came into being existed. In it there was life and that life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness and the darkness does not overwhelm it. There came on the scene of history a man commissioned by God. His name was John. This man came as a witness [a preacher of the Gospel of the Kingdom, Matt. 3:2] so that he might bear witness to the light and that everyone might believe through him. He was not the Light himself, but he witnessed concerning the light. This was the genuine light which enlightens every man coming into the world.
He was in the world and the world came into existence through him, and the world did not recognize him. He came to his own land and his own people did not accept him. As many, however, as did accept him, to these he gave the right to become children of God — namely the ones believing in his Gospel revelation, his religion. These were born not from blood, nor from the desire of the flesh nor from the desire of a male, but from God. And the word became a human being and tabernacled among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of a uniquely begotten Son from a Father, full of grace and truth.
John witnessed concerning him and cried out with these words, “This was the one of whom I said, ‘The one coming after me has now moved ahead of me, because he always was my superior.’” Because from his fullness all of us have received grace followed by grace. Because the law was given by God through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. A uniquely begotten Son, one who is in the bosom of the Father — he has explained God. And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent a commission of priests and Levites to him from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” And he confessed and did not deny, “I am not the Christ.” And they asked him, “Who are you? Are you Elijah?” And he said, “I am not.” “Are you the prophet?” And he answered, “No.” And they said to him, “Who are you? So that we can give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?” He said, “I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way of the Lord God,’ as Isaiah the prophet spoke.” And the ones sent were from the Pharisees. And they asked him a further question, “Why do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, or Elijah or the prophet who was to come?” John answered them, “I am baptizing in water. Among you there stands one whom you do not recognize — the one coming after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.” These things happened in Bethany beyond the Jordan where John was baptizing.
The next day he saw Jesus coming towards him and he said, “This is the lamb of God, the one who removes the sin of the world. This is the one of whom I said, ‘After me there comes a man who has now moved ahead of me, because he was always my superior.’ And I did not recognize him, but so that he might be recognized by Israel for that reason I came baptizing with water.” And John witnessed with these words: “I saw the spirit descending as a dove out of heaven and remaining on him, and I did not recognize him. But the one who sent me to baptize in water spoke to me and said, ‘The one on whom you see the spirit descending and remaining on him, he is the one who baptizes with holy spirit.’ And I saw this, and I have witnessed to the fact that this is the Son of the One God.”
On the next day again John stood with two of his disciples, and seeing Jesus walking by, he said, “This is the Lamb of the One God.” And the two disciples heard him speaking and followed Jesus. Jesus, turning round and seeing them following him, said, “What are you looking for?” They said, “Rabbi (which translated means Teacher), where are you staying?” And he said to them, “Come and see.” And so they went and saw where he was staying and remained with him that whole day. And it was about the tenth hour. This was Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, one of the two who had heard from John and followed him. He first found his brother Simon and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which translated means the Christ). He brought him to Jesus, and Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon the son of John. You will be called Cephas, which translated means Peter.” The next day Jesus wanted to go to Galilee, and he found Philip and said to him, “Follow me.” Now Philip was from Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter. Philip then found Nathaniel and said to him, “The one about whom Moses wrote in the law and whom the prophets mentioned, we have found, Jesus, the son of Joseph from Nazareth.” Nathaniel said to him, “Can anything good come from Nazareth?” Philip said, “Come and see.” Jesus saw Nathaniel coming towards him and he said of him, “Behold a genuine Israelite in whom there is no guile.” Nathaniel said to him, “How is it that you know me?” Jesus answered him, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the fig tree.” Nathaniel answered him, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God. You are the King of Israel.” Jesus answered him with these words: “Because I told you that I saw you under the fig tree, you are a believer? You will see greater things than this.” And he said to him, “I tell you on the authority of my Father, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”
SOURCEQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,13:13) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:05)
Surely you know by now that I am not in agreement with Ed J!
Then you probably shouldn't have told journey “This is not what we are saying that Mike is not correct about.” Because that IS what Ed is trying to tell journey I'm not correct about.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:05) You have yet to show me from ANY translation of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word where it even EVER says “Jesus IS the word of God.”
Nor is there any scripture that specifically says, “Our Father Yahweh, who is in heaven, is the One who created the heavens and the earth”. Yet we know it to be true from context and other scriptures, don't we? Your point is null and void.The Son never goes back to the Father. Jesus never says he will be returning to the Father as if he had
been with Him previously, but:
“…was going to God” (John 13:3).
“I am going my way to the Father” (John 14:12, 28;
16:28).“I am going to the Father” (John 16:10, 17).
“I am ascending to my Father” (John 20:17).
NWT, NKJV, NRSV, Rotherham, and KJV are
main versions that are correct for all these verses. The
NIV and some others wrongly report that Jesus was
going back or returning. This is highly misleading. Jesus
departed to go to the Father. He is never said to return to
the Father.Misunderstood Issues
The “sending” of Jesus was his commissioning from
birth. All the prophets were sent and this has nothing to
do with being alive before you are born.Sending of Jeremiah
Jeremiah 1:5, 7, 10: “Before you proceeded to come
forth from the womb I sanctified you. Prophet to the
nations I made you…to all those to whom I shall send
you…See, I have commissioned you this day.”
Sending did not mean that Jeremiah literally preexisted
and came down from heaven, but was
commissioned at birth.Sending of John the Baptist
John 1:6, Young’s Literal: “There came a man —
having been sent from God — whose name is John.”
The sending forth of John did not mean that he
literally pre-existed and came down from heaven. It was
simply a commissioning by God.Sending of the Disciples
John 17:18: “Just as you sent me forth into the
world, I also sent them [the disciples] forth into the
world.”
The sending forth of the disciples in the same way
as Jesus was “sent forth into the world” did not mean
that they pre-existed.Sending of Jesus
Galatians 4:4: “God sent forth His Son, who came to
be out of a woman.”
Rengstorf in The Theological Dictionary of the New
Testament says: “Linguistically there is no support for
the thesis that in Galatians 4:4 the ex in exapostellein
indicates that prior to the sending, the one sent was in
the presence of the one who sent him” (Vol. 1, p. 406).
Romans 8:3: “By sending His own Son in the
likeness of sinful flesh.”
1 John 4:14: “The Father has sent forth His Son as
Saviour of the world.”
1 John 4:9: “God sent forth His only-begotten Son
into the world.”Jesus Was Raised Up and Then Sent
Acts 3:26: “To you first, God, after raising up his
Servant, sent him forth.”So no pre-human being was raised up in heaven and
then sent down to earth. The sending came after Jesus
was raised up at birth, just as Jeremiah was raised up at
the time of his birth to be a prophet.What About 1 Timothy 3:16?
“Who was manifested in flesh” (KIT). “He was
revealed in flesh” (NRSV).
James Dunn tells us that “manifested”
(ephanerothe) simply means “appeared”:
“Without any implication of previous hiddenness
(cp John 9:3; Rom. 3:21; 2 Cor. 3:3; 4:10; 5:10; 1 John
3:5, 8), so that the context becomes of crucial
importance in determining the intended meaning of the
text…In this case, there is no indication that the thought
was intended to include a third stage of existence prior
to appearance on earth…[that is] without any intention of
implying a previous [pre-existent] hiddenness.”1
Compare John 9:3: “that the works of God might be
manifested in his case.” These “works” did not pre-exist
literally.
SOURCEQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 14 2012,20:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 14 2012,13:13) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:05)
Surely you know by now that I am not in agreement with Ed J!
Then you probably shouldn't have told journey “This is not what we are saying that Mike is not correct about.” Because that IS what Ed is trying to tell journey I'm not correct about.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2012,20:05) You have yet to show me from ANY translation of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word where it even EVER says “Jesus IS the word of God.”
Nor is there any scripture that specifically says, “Our Father Yahweh, who is in heaven, is the One who created the heavens and the earth”. Yet we know it to be true from context and other scriptures, don't we? Your point is null and void.The Son never goes back to the Father. Jesus never says he will be returning to the Father as if he had
been with Him previously, but:
“…was going to God” (John 13:3).
“I am going my way to the Father” (John 14:12, 28;
16:28).“I am going to the Father” (John 16:10, 17).
“I am ascending to my Father” (John 20:17).
NWT, NKJV, NRSV, Rotherham, and KJV are
main versions that are correct for all these verses. The
NIV and some others wrongly report that Jesus was
going back or returning. This is highly misleading. Jesus
departed to go to the Father. He is never said to return to
the Father.Misunderstood Issues
The “sending” of Jesus was his commissioning from
birth. All the prophets were sent and this has nothing to
do with being alive before you are born.Sending of Jeremiah
Jeremiah 1:5, 7, 10: “Before you proceeded to come
forth from the womb I sanctified you. Prophet to the
nations I made you…to all those to whom I shall send
you…See, I have commissioned you this day.”
Sending did not mean that Jeremiah literally preexisted
and came down from heaven, but was
commissioned at birth.Sending of John the Baptist
John 1:6, Young’s Literal: “There came a man —
having been sent from God — whose name is John.”
The sending forth of John did not mean that he
literally pre-existed and came down from heaven. It was
simply a commissioning by God.Sending of the Disciples
John 17:18: “Just as you sent me forth into the
world, I also sent them [the disciples] forth into the
world.”
The sending forth of the disciples in the same way
as Jesus was “sent forth into the world” did not mean
that they pre-existed.Sending of Jesus
Galatians 4:4: “God sent forth His Son, who came to
be out of a woman.”
Rengstorf in The Theological Dictionary of the New
Testament says: “Linguistically there is no support for
the thesis that in Galatians 4:4 the ex in exapostellein
indicates that prior to the sending, the one sent was in
the presence of the one who sent him” (Vol. 1, p. 406).
Romans 8:3: “By sending His own Son in the
likeness of sinful flesh.”
1 John 4:14: “The Father has sent forth His Son as
Saviour of the world.”
1 John 4:9: “God sent forth His only-begotten Son
into the world.”Jesus Was Raised Up and Then Sent
Acts 3:26: “To you first, God, after raising up his
Servant, sent him forth.”So no pre-human being was raised up in heaven and
then sent down to earth. The sending came after Jesus
was raised up at birth, just as Jeremiah was raised up at
the time of his birth to be a prophet.What About 1 Timothy 3:16?
“Who was manifested in flesh” (KIT). “He was
revealed in flesh” (NRSV).
James Dunn tells us that “manifested”
(ephanerothe) simply means “appeared”:
“Without any implication of previous hiddenness
(cp John 9:3; Rom. 3:21; 2 Cor. 3:3; 4:10; 5:10; 1 John
3:5, 8), so that the context becomes of crucial
importance in determining the intended meaning of the
text…In this case, there is no indication that the thought
was intended to include a third stage of existence prior
to appearance on earth…[that is] without any intention of
implying a previous [pre-existent] hiddenness.”1
Compare John 9:3: “that the works of God might be
manifested in his case.” These “works” did not pre-exist
literally.
SOURCE
Fthe word of God NEVER SAYS THAT ALL PEOPLE OR MEN WILL BELIEVE ,SO WHAT S YOUR POINT
?
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