JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2012,07:54)

Hi Mike, Jesus, by proxy, is our savior.

So Jesus IS our savior then? Why did Jehovah say there were none besides Him?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 04 2012,02:34)

Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2012,07:54) Hi Mike, Jesus, by proxy, is our savior. So Jesus IS our savior then?  Why did Jehovah say there were none besides Him?

Hi MIke,

Because it's JEHOVAH doing the saving through Jesus Christ, that's why.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Oh.  So in other words, while there DO exist OTHER saviors, Jehovah is the ULTIMATE Savior, right?

So the words “ONLY savior” really refer to Jehovah being the ULTIMATE savior, right?  Those words are meant to be taken EMPHATICALLY, and not LITERALLY, right? And it also doesn't mean that these OTHER saviors are “false saviors”, or “so-called saviors”, does it?

Hmmmmm…………..seems we've been here before Ed.  

I wonder if that's why Jehovah can be called the ONLY God when scripture descibes the existence of many gods, both in heaven and on earth.  Perhaps that's why Jehovah can be the ONLY God while still being the God of gods.  

Enough said?  Or shall we continue to play this game over and over again?  (I think this is about the 20th time we've gone over this same discussion, Ed.)

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 04 2012,03:55)

Oh.  So in other words, while there DO exist OTHER saviors, Jehovah is the ULTIMATE Savior, right? So the words “ONLY savior” really refer to Jehovah being the ULTIMATE savior, right?  Those words are meant to be taken EMPHATICALLY, and not LITERALLY, right?  And it also doesn't mean that these OTHER saviors are “false saviors”, or “so-called saviors”, does it? Hmmmmm…………..seems we've been here before Ed.   I wonder if that's why Jehovah can be called the ONLY God when scripture descibes the existence of many gods, both in heaven and on earth.  Perhaps that's why Jehovah can be the ONLY God while still being the God of gods.   Enough said?  Or shall we continue to play this game over and over again?  (I think this is about the 20th time we've gone over this same discussion, Ed.)

That's right Mike, so please try to remember this time.

The Hebrew word אלהים ĔL-ō-Hêêm does not carry as strong
a meaning as the English word “GOD”; which you already know.
YHVH (יהוה) is ĔL-ō-Hêêm of ĔL-ō-Hêêms. But there is only one GOD.

                 (26)יהוה = GOD(26)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

So, in other words, there ARE truly other gods, but not other “Omniscient Creators of All Things”?

Hmmm………….that sounds very familiar – as if I've told you this many times before.

Therefore, although Jehovah is said to be the ONLY savior, there have been many other saviors.  And although Jesus is said to be the ONLY Lord, there have been many other lords.  And although Jehovah is said to be the ONLY god, there have been many other gods.

Are we in agreement yet?  Because this is what I've been preaching for years.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 03 2012,11:50)

The Hebrew word אלהים ĔL-ō-Hêêm does not carry as strong a meaning as the English word “GOD”; which you already know.

Btw Ed, it was the The Hebrew word אלהים ĔL-ō-Hêêm that Jehovah used when He claimed to be the “ONLY one”.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2012,02:32)

Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2012,11:12) Mike; The Word came into being flesh……….. “came into being flesh”?  I don't know what that means, Kerwin. It seems to me that the Word either BECAME a flesh being, or it came to be IN an already flesh being.  Your understanding requires the latter, while scripture teaches the former.

Mike;

According to this source.

Quote

ginomai: to come into being, to happen, to become

For example, “the man came into being poor” is the same as “the man was made poor”.  Both mean he transition from a non-poor state to a poor state; but neither declare how.

The spoken Word transitioned from a non-flesh state into a flesh state of being; and still remained the spoken Word so that every knee will bow and every mouth proclaim the glory of God.

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ June 03 2012,19:40)

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2012,04:24) Quote (jammin @ June 02 2012,18:53) thanks for the  answer kerwin now, christ has the form or nature of God you said there are many lords and gods. yes the bible says that but they are not like christ. christ has the same nature as GoD do these people have the  nature of God? yes or no? if yes, give me the verse that says that they have the form or nature of God Jammin; Quote Main Entry: image  [im-ij] Show IPA Part of Speech: noun Definition: representation; counterpart Synonyms: angel*, appearance, carbon copy, carbon, carved figure, chip off old block, copy, dead ringer, double, drawing, effigy, equal, equivalent, facsimile, figure, form, icon, idol, illustration, likeness, match, model, photocopy, photograph, picture, portrait, reflection, replica, reproduction, similitude, simulacre, simulacrum, spitting image, statue I am pointing out that both image and reflection mean the same thing as form in certain contexts. The new man is created in the form of God's righteousness and holiness and faithful believers grow up into the form of Christ. My source. the question is categorical. pls answer yes or no and give the verse that they have the form of GOD

Jammin;

In my experience; such questions tend to be from the Devil; with both answers a snare. I prefer to answer with Scriptures and those things that aid comprehending the language of Scripture.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Do you think a lesser god came and saved mankind?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Why do wants scripture to argue against itself?
To elevate your own status?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2012,12:09)

The spoken Word transitioned from a non-flesh state into a flesh state of being; and still remained the spoken Word so that every knee will bow and every mouth proclaim the glory of God.

Or……… the spokesman of God who said he came down from heaven and had glory alongside his God before the world began – a spokesman who we already know is called “the Word of God” – was made flesh.  Why?  Because since the children were of flesh, he had to also partake in the same.  (Heb 2:14)

Kerwin, I have personally been a witness to you changing your explanations of John 1:1 at least 4 different times.  You are going out of your way to avoid the obvious – simply because you don't WANT to believe the obvious.  

Do you really believe that a spoken word from God became flesh, dwelled among mankind, and had the glory of God's only begotten Son?  Do you really believe that it is merely coincidence that Jesus, who actually IS the only begotten of God, had to partake in flesh, dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten, and is called “the Word of God”?  

As in the past, we have reached a point in our discussion where it makes no sense for me to continue.  Trying to show you that your alternate meanings of John 1 are illogical and nonsensical is like me trying to convince a paranoid schizophrenic that wearing a tin foil helmet is illogical and nonsensical.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2012,14:01)

Hi MB, Do you think a lesser god came and saved mankind?

I believe a lesser god was sent from heaven by his own God to save mankind. I believe it because it is what the scriptures teach.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2012,14:03)

Hi MB, Why do wants scripture to argue against itself? To elevate your own status?

Could you give us an example of where I try to make scripture argue against itself, Nick?

Or do you just post this kind of tripe so often in the hopes of elevating your status?

[kerwin]

Mike;

Quote

Kerwin, I have personally been a witness to you changing your explanations of John 1:1 at least 4 different times. You are going out of your way to avoid the obvious – simply because you don't WANT to believe the obvious.

I am but a student that weighs each teaching and tosses out those that are false or of lower quality. I tossed the one you hold to out as false several years ago.

Quote

Or……… the spokesman of God who said he came down from heaven and had glory alongside his God before the world began – a spokesman who we already know is called “the Word of God” – was made flesh. Why? Because since the children were of flesh, he had to also partake in the same. (Heb 2:14) You believe that is inferred even though it is not explicitly written.

On the other hand it is explicitly written:

Isaiah 45:23
King James Version (KJV)

23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

It is also written that every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear at the name of Jesus.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2012,16:02)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Or……… the spokesman of God who said he came down from heaven and had glory alongside his God before the world began – a spokesman who we already know is called “the Word of God” – was made flesh.  Why?  Because since the children were of flesh, he had to also partake in the same.  (Heb 2:14) You believe that is inferred even though it is not explicitly written.

Yeah Kerwin.  It is simply inferred by over 50 scriptures.  

Btw, Isaiah 45:23 is teaching that once God has said this thing, it will happen.

It is not talking about knees bowing to God's literal, spoken words, Kerwin.  Here are some other translations:

NET ©
I solemnly make this oath – what I say is true and reliable: ‘Surely every knee will bow to me, every tongue will solemnly affirm;

NIV ©
By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.

New Living Translation (©2007)
I have sworn by my own name; I have spoken the truth, and I will never go back on my word: Every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess allegiance to me.”

Barnes says:
The sense is, that God had spoken it, and that all which he has spoken shall certainly be fulfilled. The fact that the declaration has once passed his lips, is full proof that the purpose shall be accomplished.

For you to use this scripture to suggest that people will bow to God's spoken words, instead of to Him and His appointed king, is just one of the many times you end up with a nonsensical conclusion simply because you refuse to accept the most clear and obvious solution.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2012,16:02)

It is also written that every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear at the name of Jesus.

Using YOUR understanding of Is 45:23, wouldn't this be even MORE proof that Jesus is the Word of John 1?

I don't see how you're trying to use this scripture to negate Jesus being the Word in John 1.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So this lesser god could save mankind?
By whose power?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
No lesser god is even spoken of in scripture

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 04 2012,04:28)

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2012,16:02) It is also written that every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear at the name of Jesus. Using YOUR understanding of Is 45:23, wouldn't this be even MORE proof that Jesus is the Word of John 1?   I don't see how you're trying to use this scripture to negate Jesus being the Word in John 1.

Mike

God states it is his spoken Word that goes out and will not return until every knee bows and every mouth confesses the glory of God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2012,16:29)

Hi MB, So this lesser god could save mankind? By whose power?

By the power of his God, Nick.

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