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Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2012,06:35) Quote (jammin @ May 23 2012,18:10) God sent his son. that is what gal 4.4 says.
Jammin;God did indeed send the Son of his Spirit; for God is Spirit and desires his children to worship him in the Spirit; even as it is written:
John 4:24
King James Version (KJV)24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
That Son was made of a woman and was made subject to the Word.
KQuote God did indeed send the Son of his Spirit; for God is Spirit and desires his children to worship him in the Spirit; even as it is written: 
what is this 
? this is NOT WHAT SCRIPTURES ARE SAYING ,T;
What part do you not understand?
1) God is spirit
2) they that worship him are his children
3) Jesus worships God and so is his Son.
4) Jesus worships God in Spirit and so is the Son of his Spirit.
In agreement; it is written:
John 1
King James Version (KJV)12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.Quote (Ed J @ May 22 2012,21:28) Hi Mike, Generated means manufactured.
Ed,Did you see the fourth definition of “generate” that I listed from Dictionary.com?
Generate only means “manufactured” if the thing brought into existence was brought into existence through a manufacturing process.
To procreate is also to generate, as the info I posted for you clearly lists.
Quote (jammin @ May 22 2012,21:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 23 2012,11:26) Quote (jammin @ May 22 2012,05:59) both are true.
Christ has human nature
Christ is also God by nature.as man, he does not know the hour of his coming.
And wasn't he a man when Peter said he knows “all things”?
Christ became flesh. GOD manifested in the flesh. not the father but the son
So he was flesh when he knew all things, and he was flesh when he didn't know the day or the hour?How do you explain this discrepancy, jammin?
as MAN, he does not know the hour of his coming.
as GOD, he knows all things.gill's exposition of the entire bible
but my Father only; to the exclusion of all creatures, angels and men; but not to the exclusion of Christ as God, who, as such, is omniscient; nor of the Holy Spirit, who is acquainted with the deep things of God, the secrets of his heart, and this among others,Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2012,06:06) Revelations 19:13 explicitly declares that the Word is the name he is called by. John 1:14 teaches us that name he is called by was made flesh and Galatians 4:4 teaches us that Jesus, the flesh, was made of a woman and made subject to the regulations of the Word.
Boy, that's some serious denial, Kerwin!
First, you say that Jesus isn't the Word, but was only “called by that name”. Hmmmm……………. President Obama is “called by the name President”. Isn't he truly the President? I'm called by the name “Mike”. Am I not truly “Mike”?
Next, you say, “John 1:14 teaches us that name he is called by was made flesh”……….. seemingly with a straight face. Do you seriously think a NAME Jesus was called by is what became flesh and dwelled among mankind with the glory of God's only begotten Son?
And finally, you miss the entire point jammin was making with Galatians 4:4. Barnes explains the point better than jammin or I could:
God sent forth his Son – This implies that the Son of God had an existence before his incarnation; see John 16:28. The Saviour is often represented as sent into the world, and as coming forth from God.
Made of a woman – In human nature; born of a woman, This also implies that he had another nature than that which was derived from the woman. On the supposition that he was a mere man, how unmeaning would this assertion be! How natural to ask, in what other way could he appear than to be born of a woman? Why was he particularly designated as coming into the world in this manner? How strange would it sound if it were said, “In the sixteenth century came Faustus Socinus preaching Unitarianism, made of a woman!” or, “In the eighteenth century came Dr. Joseph Priestley, born of a woman, preaching the doctrines of Socinus!” How else could they appear? would be the natural inquiry. What was there special in their birth and origin that rendered such language necessary?
This reasoning also applies to the many mentions of Jesus being the son of David……….ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. The natural inquiry would be, “As opposed to WHAT?”
Here is John 16:28, that Barnes alluded to:
I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”Did Jesus go back to the Father only in spirit? Or LITERALLY? It seems to me that if he went TO the Father LITERALLY, then he also came FROM the Father and entered the world LITERALLY.
Quote (jammin @ May 23 2012,18:41) as MAN, he does not know the hour of his coming.
as GOD, he knows all things.
But haven't we already agreed that Jesus was MAN when he was said to “know all things”, and also MAN when he admitted that he didn't know the day or the hour?How can he “know all things” and not know the day and the hour of his return?
(The answer is simple, jammin. “Know all things” was an emphatic statement giving reverence to Peter's Lord, and is not to be taken any more literally than David knowing “all things in the world”, or the disciples knowing “all things” through the Spirit.)
Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2012,13:57) T; What part do you not understand?
1) God is spirit
2) they that worship him are his children
3) Jesus worships God and so is his Son.
4) Jesus worships God in Spirit and so is the Son of his Spirit.
In agreement; it is written:
John 1
King James Version (KJV)12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
KYOUR ITEM 1) IS WRONG = GOD HIS A SPIRIT BEING,
2) WRONG AGAIN= NO ONE HIS CALLED HIS CHILDREN BUT THE OPPORTUNITY IS GIVEN TO SOME TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD, Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—(PAY ATTENTION TO THE MANY CONDITION ARE INCLUDED IN THAT VERSE)
3) WRONG AGAIN =CHRIST IS NOT THE SON OF HIS FATHER BECAUSE HE WORSHIP HIM ,THIS IS RIDICULOUS,
ARE YOU THE SON OF YOUR FATHER BECAUSE YOU RECOGNIZED HIM AS SUCH IT SEEMS YOU HAVE NOTHING IN THE SAY ,? RIGHT ??4) WRONG AND WRONG AGAIN ;= THE WORD BECAME FLESH BECAUSE THAT S THE WAY HIS FATHER WANTED IT TO BE,AND SO BECAME THE CHRIST (THE WORD WITH FLESH = CHRIST)
John 1
King James Version (KJV)12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.THIS SCRIPTURES ARE SAYING THE TRUTH ,BUT MEN CAN NOT READ IT FROM GODS VIEW AND INTEND ,THEY ONLY READ IT FROM THEIR CORRUPTED MIND AND HEART .
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 24 2012,11:20) Quote (Ed J @ May 22 2012,21:28) Hi Mike, Generated means manufactured.
Ed,Did you see the fourth definition of “generate” that I listed from Dictionary.com?
Generate only means “manufactured” if the thing brought into existence was brought into existence through a manufacturing process.
To procreate is also to generate, as the info I posted for you clearly lists.
Hi Mike,Why do you insist on using terms that may be misleading?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMike;
Offhand I will state Barnes appears not to have considered certain Scriptures; among them are:
Matthew 11:11
King James Version (KJV)11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
and
Luke 7:28
King James Version (KJV)28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
also
John 1:6
King James Version (KJV)6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 24 2012,11:56) Quote (jammin @ May 23 2012,18:41) as MAN, he does not know the hour of his coming.
as GOD, he knows all things.
But haven't we already agreed that Jesus was MAN when he was said to “know all things”, and also MAN when he admitted that he didn't know the day or the hour?How can he “know all things” and not know the day and the hour of his return?
(The answer is simple, jammin. “Know all things” was an emphatic statement giving reverence to Peter's Lord, and is not to be taken any more literally than David knowing “all things in the world”, or the disciples knowing “all things” through the Spirit.)
mike,i already told you my answer but you are not reading it
gill's exposition of the entire bible
but my Father only; to the exclusion of all creatures, angels and men; but not to the exclusion of Christ as God, who, as such, is omniscient; nor of the Holy Spirit, who is acquainted with the deep things of God, the secrets of his heart, and this among others,Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2012,11:54) Hi Jammin,
So he was in a state of total confusion
not knowing if he knew or not?
no. he has a nature of MAN and God.read the context for you to understand mat 24.36
gill's exposition of the entire bible
but my Father only; to the exclusion of all creatures, angels and men; but not to the exclusion of Christ as God, who, as such, is omniscient; nor of the Holy Spirit, who is acquainted with the deep things of God, the secrets of his heart, and this among others,Mike;
Quote God sent forth his Son – This implies that the Son of God had an existence before his incarnation; see John 16:28. The Savior is often represented as sent into the world, and as coming forth from God. John 1:6
King James Version (KJV)6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
There is a man sent from God, whose name is Jesus, the Son of God; does not in any way hint at either Jesus or John preexisting. What applies to a parallel statement about one applies to the other as well; unless the context dictates otherwise. Barnes support for his claim is that other Scriptures that paraphrase the same words give the suspicion he comes from heaven.
Quote Made of a woman – In human nature; born of a woman, This also implies that he had another nature than that which was derived from the woman. On the supposition that he was a mere man, how unmeaning would this assertion be! How natural to ask, in what other way could he appear than to be born of a woman? Why was he particularly designated as coming into the world in this manner? How strange would it sound if it were said, “In the sixteenth century came Faustus Socinus preaching Unitarianism, made of a woman!” or, “In the eighteenth century came Dr. Joseph Priestley, born of a woman, preaching the doctrines of Socinus!” How else could they appear? would be the natural inquiry. What was there special in their birth and origin that rendered such language necessary? Matthew 11:11
King James Version (KJV)11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
and
Luke 7:28
King James Version (KJV)28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
Again Barnes fails to consider that John is placed in the group of those said to be born of women. It does support the hypothesis that both Jesus and John are born of women and so are human; with human natures.
We clearly see that contrary to what Barnes claims; Jesus is not particularly designated as coming into the world by being born of women.
Stating that a human being is born of women is not strange; but it is an idiom used to express related but different ideas.
Matthew 11:11 and Luke 7:28 is speaking of two group; the first is those born of women; the second is those in the kingdom of heaven; even though some of the later are born of women; Jesus is the Archetype of the later.
Now let us compare this to what I claimed.
1} I claim that the Word is the name Jesus is called by.
2} I claim that name was made flesh
3} I claim the flesh it was made was made of women and made subject to the requirements of the Word; which is the Law.I supported all of my claims by Scripture; though you find them uncomfortable.
The Word was not made of women but the flesh was. The Word was not made subject to the requirements of the Law because the Word is the Law; the flesh was made subject. The Word is the form of God while the flesh is the form of flesh and blood.
Matthew 16:17
King James Version (KJV)17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
T;
Scripture itself declares God is Spirit; and desires his children to worship him in the spirit; for it is written:
John 4:24
King James Version (KJV)24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Or
John 4:24
English Standard Version (ESV)24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
A parallel passage is:
1 John 4:8
King James Version (KJV)8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Or
1 John 4:8
English Standard Version (ESV)8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Here is one more Scripture to add context to these words.
1 John 4:16
English Standard Version (ESV)16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
So to us God is the Spirit of Love and his children worship him in the Spirit of Love. Jesus is the Pioneer of those that worship him in the Spirit of Love; and the means by which Yahweh’s other children worship him in the Spirit of Love.
Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2012,20:45) Mike; Offhand I will state Barnes appears not to have considered certain Scriptures; among them are:
Matthew 11:11
King James Version (KJV)11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Kerwin,You have made our point for us. In the case of John the Baptist, Jesus was making a CONTRAST BETWEEN those “born of women”, and those of “the kingdom of heaven”. In this case, it would make perfect sense to mention that John was born of a woman, as it was human nature Jesus was contrasting against those of non-human nature.
Where is that contrast in Gal 4:4? What reason would Paul have to mention that Jesus was “born of a woman” if there was no other option?
(Please answer that for me)
Quote (jammin @ May 24 2012,05:07) mike, i already told you my answer but you are not reading it
gill's exposition of the entire bible
but my Father only; to the exclusion of all creatures, angels and men; but not to the exclusion of Christ as God,
Matthew 24:36
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.Mark 13:32
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.Did Gill overlook the words “nor the Son” that Jesus spoke?
Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2012,09:00) T; Scripture itself declares God is Spirit; and desires his children to worship him in the spirit; for it is written:
John 4:24
King James Version (KJV)24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Or
John 4:24
English Standard Version (ESV)24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
A parallel passage is:
1 John 4:8
King James Version (KJV)8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Or
1 John 4:8
English Standard Version (ESV)8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Here is one more Scripture to add context to these words.
1 John 4:16
English Standard Version (ESV)16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
So to us God is the Spirit of Love and his children worship him in the Spirit of Love. Jesus is the Pioneer of those that worship him in the Spirit of Love; and the means by which Yahweh’s other children worship him in the Spirit of Love.
Kwhat is it you want to say with your understanding in scriptures
that scriptures are confusing
Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2012,07:44) John 1:6
King James Version (KJV)6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
There is a man sent from God, whose name is Jesus, the Son of God; does not in any way hint at either Jesus or John preexisting.
If I were to base my understanding ONLY on a scripture that said John was sent from God and a scripture that said Jesus was sent forth from God, you and I would likely have no argument, Kerwin.BUT………………. when I consider the large number of other scriptures involved, it is a no-brainer for me. There is NO OTHER scripture to even hint at the possibility of John coming down literally from heaven, and so I will understand him being sent “from God” in a certain way.
On the other hand, and much to the contrary, there are TONS of scriptures that explain how Jesus was existing in heaven before being made into a human being. In fact, one of those passages involves Jesus himself saying he came DOWN from heaven, and that some of those present would see him ASCEND to where he WAS BEFORE.
Kerwin, does scripture ever mention someone saying that John the Baptist was sent DOWN from God, and was going back to God? NO.
Does scripture mention such a thing about Jesus? YES, many times in many different ways.
So it seems that you are not only trying to compare apples to oranges, but you are at the same time trying to imply that “sent from God” is the ONLY phrase upon which we base our pre-existent understanding. But in reality, it is the context of many other scriptures that cause us to understand John being sent “from God” in a completely different way than Jesus being sent “from God”.
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.Are you able to see how the words I came from God give a whole different meaning to the words he sent me? Many prophets and apostles were said to have been “sent from God”, Kerwin. But only one said “I came from God” and “I came DOWN from heaven”.
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