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Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,13:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,10:32) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 07 2012,17:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2012,11:09) No Kerwin, The Word is who was WITH Yahweh in the beginning.
Mike,Father Yahweh's word is not a “who”! LOL!
Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.Is Father Yahweh's word a “who” in this verse?
Mike,
Yahshua is a who, but the words that proceed from his mouth most certainly is not a “who”! Father Yahweh's son's GIVEN name is Yahshua. What is given reference to in the Revelation verse that you submitted is an attribute of Yahshua and not his ACTUAL name and it says that his name/title (an attribute) is called “The Word of Yahweh”. This title is attributed to him because Father Yahweh's word will be proceeding from his mouth sharper than any two edged sword. Father Yahweh's word is not a who, but an it. Yahshua is the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period.
For the word of Yahweh is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart (Hebrews 4:12).
Starting with Revelation 1:10:
I was in the Spirit on Yahweh's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. …
Are you taking the vision that Yahchanan is describing here LITERALLY so far? From the context you certainly know that this is speaking of Yahshua, right?
… In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
Is there a “who” coming out of Yahshua's mouth here?
Following is the MEANING of what is being described in vision of what Yahchanan saw concerning what is coming out of Yahshua's mouth:
“To the malak of the assembly in Ephesus write: THESE ARE THE WORDS OF HIM who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands:
Are the words that are coming out of Yahshua's mouth a “who”?
…
Hi Mike, do YOU claim this verse to be speaking of Jesus? (God's spokesman 'as YOU say')…““My Word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return
unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it
shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isa 55:11)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 08 2012,14:04) Hi FRank,
Yes the Word is as the Sword of the SPIRIT in the mouth of Yashua Christos.
Amen!Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,13:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,13:49) Frank, What is the point of your long cut and paste job? And how does it refute the fact that Jesus is the Word in John 1 and Rev 19?
Mike,And where in Scripture does it ever say “Yahshua is the word.”? NOWHERE!
No-where!Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,21:21) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,13:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,13:49) Frank, What is the point of your long cut and paste job? And how does it refute the fact that Jesus is the Word in John 1 and Rev 19?
Mike,And where in Scripture does it ever say “Yahshua is the word.”? NOWHERE!
No-where!
it strange ,and yet all apostles knew that Christ was the WORD OF GOD ,and that he was send from heaven and that Mary was a surrogate mother ,but most of you do not believe what you read in scriptures so they are a waist to youQuote (terraricca @ May 08 2012,14:58) Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,21:21) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,13:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,13:49) Frank, What is the point of your long cut and paste job? And how does it refute the fact that Jesus is the Word in John 1 and Rev 19?
Mike,And where in Scripture does it ever say “Yahshua is the word.”? NOWHERE!
No-where!
it strange ,and yet all apostles knew that Christ was the WORD OF GOD ,and that he was send from heaven and that Mary was a surrogate mother ,but most of you do not believe what you read in scriptures so they are a waist to you
surrogate mother?Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 08 2012,04:51) Hi KW,
Was Jesus anointed as a priest at the Jordan?
Unsure if Hebrews 2-9 says that but possibly.He entered the holy of holies through the veil of his flesh.
Nick,It is known that priests are baptized into their orders and God declares:
Hebrews 5
King James Version (KJV)5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;It does not disagree and it may agree since Melchisedec was a king as well as a priest.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,08:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,13:11) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 07 2012,20:07) Mike, Yahshua is a who, but the words that proceed from his mouth most certainly is not a “who”!
Agreed, Frank.But John 1:1 and 1:14 speak of the “who”, Yahshua – just like Rev 19:13 does.
Mike,Father Yahweh's word is personified just as his wisdom is personified in the female gender. Are we to believe that there was also a “Goddess” with Yahweh also? I think not!
Frank,She would be the mother of both Jesus and John the Baptist; as that is what Jesus called her.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,08:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,13:49) Frank, What is the point of your long cut and paste job? And how does it refute the fact that Jesus is the Word in John 1 and Rev 19?
Mike,And where in Scripture does it ever say “Yahshua is the word.”? NOWHERE!
Frank;I see where the Word became human; but that does not infer the Word shape-changed into a human being.
these people does not know how to read their bible LOL
they want their man made doctrine to be accpted by men even without biblical facts LOLthe word is the son of GOD!
John 1:14-18New Living Translation (NLT)
14 So the Word became human[a] and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.
case closed
Quote (kerwin @ May 08 2012,19:41) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,08:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,13:11) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 07 2012,20:07) Mike, Yahshua is a who, but the words that proceed from his mouth most certainly is not a “who”!
Agreed, Frank.But John 1:1 and 1:14 speak of the “who”, Yahshua – just like Rev 19:13 does.
Mike,Father Yahweh's word is personified just as his wisdom is personified in the female gender. Are we to believe that there was also a “Goddess” with Yahweh also? I think not!
Frank,She would be the mother of both Jesus and John the Baptist; as that is what Jesus called her.
kerwin,Father Yahweh's wisdom is also not and actual being. Father Yahweh's wisdom is “the mother of both Jesus and John the Baptist; as that is what Jesus called her.”?
Quote (kerwin @ May 08 2012,19:45) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,08:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,13:49) Frank, What is the point of your long cut and paste job? And how does it refute the fact that Jesus is the Word in John 1 and Rev 19?
Mike,And where in Scripture does it ever say “Yahshua is the word.”? NOWHERE!
Frank;I see where the Word became human; but that does not infer the Word shape-changed into a human being.
kerwin,Father Yahweh's word became human?
Quote (terraricca @ May 08 2012,14:58) Quote (Ed J @ May 08 2012,21:21) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,13:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,13:49) Frank, What is the point of your long cut and paste job? And how does it refute the fact that Jesus is the Word in John 1 and Rev 19?
Mike,And where in Scripture does it ever say “Yahshua is the word.”? NOWHERE!
No-where!
it strange ,and yet all apostles knew that Christ was the WORD OF GOD ,and that he was send from heaven and that Mary was a surrogate mother ,but most of you do not believe what you read in scriptures so they are a waist to you
Pierre,Not one apostle is recorded in Scripture as proclaiming “Yahshua is the word of Yahweh” or even said to knowing such foolishness. Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word.
To ALL,
It is really quite simple avoiding all the personification of Father Yahweh's word and wisdom as actual beings. Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word. Personification of words does not make words LITERAL beings. What is true about the personification of Yahweh's set apart [“holy”] spirit is also true of the personification of His word and any other personification of words:
The Holy Spirit is referred to as he and him in translation. This is also true of common tools, etc. “Then said Yahshua unto him, Put up again thy sword into, his place, for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword” (Mattithyah [Matthew] 26:52; also cf. Yechetzqyah [Ezekiel] 21:3-5, 30). The word 'house' is personified in translation in Yeremyah [Jeremiah] 22:14. The word 'ordinance' is personified in translation in Exodus 13:10. The word 'patience' is given a female personification in translation in Yaaqob [James] 1:4. The word 'wisdom' is also given a female personification in Proverbs 1:20; 9:1 & 31:26.
Why sometimes called 'He' and 'Him'
Many people assume that the Holy Spirit is a personal entity, based on references to the Spirit as “he,” “him” and “himself” in the New Testament. This confusion arises from two factors—the use of gender-inflected pronouns in the Greek language and bias on the part of some translators.
Greek, as do the Romance languages (Spanish, French, Italian, etc.), invokes a specific gender for every noun. Every object, animate or inanimate, is designated as either masculine, feminine or neuter. The gender is often unrelated to whether the item is indeed masculine or feminine. For example, in French the word livre, meaning “book,” is of the masculine gender and is referred to by a pronoun equivalent to the English “he.” And in Spanish, mesa, or “table,” is in the feminine. Clearly, although these nouns have gender, their gender does not refer to actually being male or female.
In the English language, in contrast, most nouns that do not refer to objects that are male or female are referred to in the neuter sense, with the pronoun “it.”
In Greek, both masculine and neuter words are used to refer to the Holy Spirit. The Greek word translated “Helper,” “Comforter” and “Advocate” in John 14-16 is parakletos, a masculine word in Greek and thus referred to in these chapters by Greek pronouns equivalent to the English “he,” “him,” “his,” “himself,” “who” and “whom.”
Because of the masculine gender of parakletos, these pronouns are grammatically correct in Greek. But to translate these into English as “he,” “him,” etc., is grammatically incorrect.
By the same token, you would never translate a particular French sentence as “I'm looking for my book so I can read her.” While this grammatical construction makes sense in the French language, it is wrong in English. Thus the supposition that the Holy Spirit is a person to be referred to as “he” or “him” is incorrect.
Neuter in nature, not personal
There is absolutely no justification for referring to the term “Holy Spirit” with masculine pronouns, even in Greek. The Greek word pneuma, usually translated “spirit” but also translated “wind” and “breath,” is a grammatically neuter word. So, in the Greek language, pronouns equivalent to the English “it,” “its,” “itself,” “which” or “that” are properly used in referring to this word for “spirit.”Yet, when the King James or Authorized Version was produced (early in the 1600s), the doctrine of the Trinity had already been accepted for more than 1,000 years. So naturally the translators of that version usually chose personal rather than neutral pronouns when referring to the Holy Spirit in English (see, for example, John 16:1314; Romans 8:26).
Notice, however, that in some passages in the KJV the translators properly used neuter pronouns. Romans 8:16, for example, says: “The Spirit itself [not himself] beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.” Matthew 10:20 and 1 Peter 1:11 are other places in the KJV where the proper neuter pronouns are employed.
Regrettably, later English translators of the Bible have gone even further than the King James translators in referring to the Holy Spirit as masculine rather than neuter. Thus the Holy Spirit is almost always referred to as “he” or “him” in the more-modern versions. This reflects not linguistic accuracy, but the doctrinal bias or incorrect assumptions of Bible translators.
— Scott Ashley
SOURCEHi KW,
You say
“It is known that priests are baptized into their orders and God declares”Which priests are you speaking of?
CATHOLIC PRIESTS?
What relationship do they have to the body of Christ?? NONE
But You are right about Melchisedek and of course David too.
Nick;
Hebrew priests; as both John the Baptist and Jesus are Hebrews.
Immersion in water is also a Hebrew practice used on coverts; such as those Jews that came to John to pledge a clear conscious before God. Jesus was not a convert as he already had a clear conscious before God.
The Hebrew converts among the out-called would know these things and would share them with the Gentiles. The same is true of the dispute over the body of Mosses and other Jewish teachings.
Hi KW,
Only God and those He gives authority to can forgive sin and give men a clean conscience.
Repentance is the call. The pledges of men do not offer muchQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,21:46) Quote (kerwin @ May 08 2012,19:45) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 08 2012,08:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2012,13:49) Frank, What is the point of your long cut and paste job? And how does it refute the fact that Jesus is the Word in John 1 and Rev 19?
Mike,And where in Scripture does it ever say “Yahshua is the word.”? NOWHERE!
Frank;I see where the Word became human; but that does not infer the Word shape-changed into a human being.
kerwin,Father Yahweh's word became human?
Frank;It appears that flesh=humans in these two passages. At most is means all mortal living creatures.
Psalm 65
King James Version (KJV)1 Praise waiteth for thee, O God, in Sion: and unto thee shall the vow be performed.
2 O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.and
Psalm 145:21
King James Version (KJV)21 My mouth shall speak the praise of the Lord: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.
John 1:14 is indirectly speaking of a single individual. That individual is a human being; who is given the name Jesus; and the title Messiah.
Certain individuals, who lack understanding; misinterpret it to mean the Word was transformed into a human being. In doing so they fail to understand that when the Word became Jesus; Jesus became the Word; since if the Word transformed into a human being it would stop being the Word; since it would be human.
Messiah is a title that is above every other title; but it is just an aspect of the Word according to the correct understanding of Scripture.
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