JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ April 22 2012,08:33)

John 1:1 Amplified Bible (AMP) John 1 1IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. Revelation 19:13 Amplified Bible (AMP) 13He is dressed in a robe dyed by [a]dipping in blood, and the title by which He is called is The Word of God. Geneva Study Bible In {1} the {a} beginning {b} was {c} the Word, and the Word was {d} with God, and the {e} Word was God. (1) The Son of God is of one and the selfsame eternity or everlastingness, and of one and the selfsame essence or nature with the Father. (a) From the beginning, as the evangelist says in 1Jo 1:1; it is as though he said that the Word did not begin to have his being when God began to make all that was made: for the Word was even then when all things that were made began to be made, and therefore he was before the beginning of all things. (b) Had his being. © This word the points out to us a peculiar and choice thing above all others, and puts a difference between this Word, which is the Son of God, and the laws of God, which are also called the word of God. (d) This word with points out that there is a distinction of persons here. (e) This word Word is the first in order in the sentence, and is the subject of the sentence, and this word God is the latter in order, and is the predicate of the sentence. case closed

Jammin,

Your witnesses are not creditable and therefore your case fails to convince anyone who would not be convinced without it. If you desire to continue to support such nonsense; it is best you continue such flawed reasoning less someone be led astray.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 21 2012,21:02)

Mike, I cannot say for sure how each angel came to be ………………

Kerwin,

Your post doesn't come close to addressing my last one to you.

Remember the origin of the word “conceived”:
Originally “take (seed) into the womb, become pregnant;” sense of “take”

We agree that “conceived” refers to one's beginning AS A HUMAN BEING, right? Tell me again how that word proves that one didn't already exist as something other than a human being BEFORE being conceived as a human being.

We also agree that typically, one is born or begotten only one time in their life, but with God some will be born and begotten AGAIN, right? So tell me why Jesus couldn't have been born AGAIN as a human being before he was born AGAIN from the dead?

(Is this really all you have, Kerwin? The fact that Jesus was indeed born as a human being? )

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 21 2012,20:33)

(d) This word with points out that there is a distinction of persons here.

Your source has it correct, jammin. The word “with” points out that TWO are mentioned in John 1:1 – only one of whom was called “THE God” by John.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The WORD was with God and was God.
Jesus of Nazareth was not with God and was not God.
But now reborn from above he has inherited a name greater than the angels-The WORD.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2012,14:30)

Hi KW, Jesus did not need to be baptised because he was clean by full obedience to the Law. Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ washes the conscience of the repentant The Spirit of God does not set men free but gives them the power to become so.

Nick,

You are correct that a person can only be set free if they choose  to believe.  

Being a believer who pledges a clear conscious before God and is immersed in water by the authority of Jesus does serve to to obtain forgiveness and the gift of the Spirit of God if the believer strives to mature in Christ.  A believer is only a true believer if they believe all God teaches them.

Jesus did not need to be immersed in water because he lived by the Spirit.  The Baptism of John did not give the gift of the Spirit.  Jesus was baptized into his coming ministry as Jewish Priests and High Priests are immersed.

Wikipedia entry for Mikveh reads:

Quote

by Jewish priests when they are being consecrated[19] by the Jewish high priest on Yom Kippur, after sending away the goat to Azazel, and by the man who leads away the goat[20] by the Jewish priest who performed the Red Heifer ritual[21]'

19) ^ 29:4&verse=&src=! Exodus 29:4 , 40:12&verse=&src=! Exodus 40:12
20) ^ 16:24&verse=&src=! Leviticus 16:24 , 16:26&verse=&src=! , 16:28&verse=&src=!
21) ^ 19:7-8&verse=&src=! Numbers 19:7-8

[kerwin]

Mike,

Scripture makes the case that both Jesus and John the Baptist were conceived.   According to you, that means that the wombs of their respective mothers seized the seed that was them.  

It is true that both Jesus and John came to be human when they became fertile human seed even though each became fertile seed in different ways.  As it is true the each became human beings it is also true they each became beings; for Scripture the word “sullambanó” is translated conceived; not changed.

Jesus was gennaó of the flesh by the power of the Spirit of God and so is a descendant of David.  He was also gennaó of the spirit by the power of the Spirit of God and so is an offspring of God.    A person can be an offspring of a human as of the flesh and an offspring of God since the flesh gives birth to flesh and the spirit gives birth to spirit.  All men, but Jesus, become offspring via adoption as they have fallen short of God’s glory.  That is not the same as declaring that a being that already exists comes to exist again.

[NickHassan]

Quite so KW,
Begotten as the monogenes Son at the Jordan

[jammin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2012,14:17)

Hi MB, The WORD was with God and was God. Jesus of Nazareth was not with God and was not God. But now reborn from above he has inherited a name greater than the angels-The WORD.

let the bible answer you

Philippians 2:5-6

Good News Translation (GNT)
5 The attitude you should have is the one that Christ Jesus had:

6 He always had the nature of God,

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ April 22 2012,14:07)

Quote (jammin @ April 22 2012,08:33) John 1:1 Amplified Bible (AMP) John 1 1IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. Revelation 19:13 Amplified Bible (AMP) 13He is dressed in a robe dyed by [a]dipping in blood, and the title by which He is called is The Word of God. Geneva Study Bible In {1} the {a} beginning {b} was {c} the Word, and the Word was {d} with God, and the {e} Word was God. (1) The Son of God is of one and the selfsame eternity or everlastingness, and of one and the selfsame essence or nature with the Father. (a) From the beginning, as the evangelist says in 1Jo 1:1; it is as though he said that the Word did not begin to have his being when God began to make all that was made: for the Word was even then when all things that were made began to be made, and therefore he was before the beginning of all things. (b) Had his being. © This word the points out to us a peculiar and choice thing above all others, and puts a difference between this Word, which is the Son of God, and the laws of God, which are also called the word of God. (d) This word with points out that there is a distinction of persons here. (e) This word Word is the first in order in the sentence, and is the subject of the sentence, and this word God is the latter in order, and is the predicate of the sentence. case closed Jammin, Your witnesses are not creditable and therefore your case fails to convince anyone who would not be convinced without it.  If you desire to continue to support such nonsense; it is best you continue such flawed reasoning less someone be led astray.

ignoring this truth means you are ignoring the doctrine of the apostles.

i believe what john said that the Word is the son of GOD. he is Christ.

study hard boy

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,14:15)

Quote (jammin @ April 21 2012,20:33) (d) This word with points out that there is a distinction of persons here. Your source has it correct, jammin.  The word “with” points out that TWO are mentioned in John 1:1 – only one of whom was called “THE God” by John.

mike,

the son is not the father. that's is the meaning of the verse.
the father is not the son but they have the same nature, GOD.

john 1.1 BNT
When the world began, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God.

john 1.1 GNT
1 In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

study hard boy LOL

[NickHassan]

Hi Jammin,
WAS

[Ed J]

Quote (jammin @ April 22 2012,18:00)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2012,14:17) Hi MB, The WORD was with God and was God. Jesus of Nazareth was not with God and was not God. But now reborn from above he has inherited a name greater than the angels-The WORD. let the bible answer you Philippians 2:5-6 Good News Translation (GNT) 5 The attitude you should have is the one that Christ Jesus had: 6 He always had the nature of God,

Hi Jammin,

2:5 τουτο γαρ φρονεισθω εν υμιν ο και εν χριστω ιησου
2:6 ος εν μορφη θεου υπαρχων ουχ αρπαγμον ηγησατο το ειναι ισα θεω

(Phil 2:5-6) 2:5 This understanding is in you in Christ Jesus:
2:6 In the form that God exists, think it not robbery to be considered equal.

---

               Kinda backs up what 2Peter 1:4 says, huh?

“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:
that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:4)

---

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

So, quit 'lusting' after power; Jammin!

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,12:21)

Quote (942767 @ April 21 2012,19:19) but yes, to answer your question, the rider of the horse is “the Word that God has spoken”. So the LIVING BEING of Jesus Christ is a word that God spoke?

Hi Mike,

So the LIVING BEING (Called the “HolySpirit”) IN Jesus Christ is “The Word” that spoke?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (jammin @ April 22 2012,13:33)

John 1:1 Amplified Bible (AMP) John 1 1IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. Revelation 19:13 Amplified Bible (AMP) 13He is dressed in a robe dyed by [a]dipping in blood, and the title by which He is called is The Word of God. Geneva Study Bible In {1} the {a} beginning {b} was {c} the Word, and the Word was {d} with God, and the {e} Word was God. (1) The Son of God is of one and the selfsame eternity or everlastingness, and of one and the selfsame essence or nature with the Father. (a) From the beginning, as the evangelist says in 1Jo 1:1; it is as though he said that the Word did not begin to have his being when God began to make all that was made: for the Word was even then when all things that were made began to be made, and therefore he was before the beginning of all things. (b) Had his being. © This word the points out to us a peculiar and choice thing above all others, and puts a difference between this Word, which is the Son of God, and the laws of God, which are also called the word of God. (d) This word with points out that there is a distinction of persons here. (e) This word Word is the first in order in the sentence, and is the subject of the sentence, and this word God is the latter in order, and is the predicate of the sentence. case closed

Hi Jammin,

                   “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!    
                     And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !                
         
Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood.
Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments

Revelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress
Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone

Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God.
Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within

                     But they rebelled, and vexed
                     his HolySpirit: therefore he
                     was turned to be their enemy,
                     and he fought against them.

Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger  
          …and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,
                              that with it He should smite the nations.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[jammin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2012,19:47)

Hi Jammin, WAS

read verse 14
he became flesh.

was GOD means john is referring to his nature as GOD.

john 1.1 BNT
When the world began, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God.

[jammin]

Quote (Ed J @ April 22 2012,20:15)

Quote (jammin @ April 22 2012,13:33) John 1:1 Amplified Bible (AMP) John 1 1IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. Revelation 19:13 Amplified Bible (AMP) 13He is dressed in a robe dyed by [a]dipping in blood, and the title by which He is called is The Word of God. Geneva Study Bible In {1} the {a} beginning {b} was {c} the Word, and the Word was {d} with God, and the {e} Word was God. (1) The Son of God is of one and the selfsame eternity or everlastingness, and of one and the selfsame essence or nature with the Father. (a) From the beginning, as the evangelist says in 1Jo 1:1; it is as though he said that the Word did not begin to have his being when God began to make all that was made: for the Word was even then when all things that were made began to be made, and therefore he was before the beginning of all things. (b) Had his being. © This word the points out to us a peculiar and choice thing above all others, and puts a difference between this Word, which is the Son of God, and the laws of God, which are also called the word of God. (d) This word with points out that there is a distinction of persons here. (e) This word Word is the first in order in the sentence, and is the subject of the sentence, and this word God is the latter in order, and is the predicate of the sentence. case closed Hi Jammin,                    “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!                          And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !                           Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood. Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments Revelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God. Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within                      But they rebelled, and vexed                      his HolySpirit: therefore he                      was turned to be their enemy,                      and he fought against them. Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger             …and I will bring down their strength to the earth. Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,                               that with it He should smite the nations. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

LOL

that rev 19.13 refers to Cristo! the son of GOD!

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood,…. Either in his own, by which he became the Saviour of his church and people; or else in the blood of his saints, he now comes to avenge; or rather in the blood of his enemies, with which he appears as stained, before the battle is fought, the victory being sure, and their slaughter unavoidable: the metaphor is taken from persons treading in a winepress, whose garments are stained with blood of grapes; see Revelation 19:15. Here may be also an allusion to the Roman general's vesture, which was sometimes purple or scarlet, in which he fought, as did Lucullus (s).

And his name is called the Word of God; the name of Christ, often used by John in his Gospel, epistles, and in this book, John 1:1 1 John 1:1.

study hard boy LOL

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ April 22 2012,20:15)

Quote (jammin @ April 22 2012,20:58) Hi Jammin,                    “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!                          And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !                           Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood. Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments Revelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God. Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within                      But they rebelled, and vexed                      his HolySpirit: therefore he                      was turned to be their enemy,                      and he fought against them. Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger             …and I will bring down their strength to the earth. Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,                               that with it He should smite the nations. God bless Ed J LOL that rev 19.13 refers to Cristo! the son of GOD! Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood,…. Either in his own, by which he became the Saviour of his church and people; or else in the blood of his saints, he now comes to avenge; or rather in the blood of his enemies, with which he appears as stained, before the battle is fought, the victory being sure, and their slaughter unavoidable: the metaphor is taken from persons treading in a winepress, whose garments are stained with blood of grapes; see Revelation 19:15. Here may be also an allusion to the Roman general's vesture, which was sometimes purple or scarlet, in which he fought, as did Lucullus (s). And his name is called the Word of God; the name of Christ, often used by John in his Gospel, epistles, and in this book, John 1:1 1 John 1:1. study hard boy LOL

Hi Jammin,

ALL rudimentary logic is going to get 'burned-up'! (see 2Peter 3:12-16)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 21 2012,23:26)

That is not the same as declaring that a being that already exists comes to exist again.

Kerwin,

None of us have ever used the fact that Jesus was born as a human being as proof that he existed before this occurance.

Nor can you honestly and logically use this occurance as proof that he didn't.

On the other hand, I have listed about 50 scriptures a couple of pages ago that we do use as proof of Jesus' pre-existence.  And all I'm asking from any of you non-preexisters is a single scripture that would prohibit our understanding from being the truth.

It's one thing to not WANT Jesus to have pre-existed because you feel less empowered if he did.  It seems to be quite another matter for you guys to actually show any scriptural evidence that he didn't.

For example, we show you at least four different scriptures that speak of how the ages, the universe, all things in heaven and on earth, whether visible or invisible, were created through our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God – and you act as if those scriptures do not exist.  You guys immediately scramble, trying desparately to find odd, abstract, alternate meanings for these clearly stated scriptural facts.  But you can't ever offer any scriptural evidence that these scriptures don't mean exactly what they say.

It would be like if I didn't WANT God to have created the earth, I could argue that the word in Genesis is “bara”, which really means “to fill up” or  “to fatten”.  So I could make an entire false doctrine based on that Hebrew word, and insist that God only “filled” the earth instead of creating it – just because I had PERSONAL reasons for not WANTING God to have created the earth.

This is what you guys are all about.  You don't WANT Jesus to have pre-existed, and so you play word games and create nonsense from sensibly written scriptures. You have to add words, like “NEW creation”. You have to change words, like “the Word CAME TO BE IN someone who was already flesh”. You have to imagine utter nonsense, like “glorify me now with the glory THE THOUGHT OF ME IN YOUR HEAD was having before the world began”, or like “it was the spirit inside of Jesus who was God, but didn't come to do His own will, but God's”. In short, you guys constantly RE-WRITE the scriptures, making many of them nonsensical, simply because you don't WANT Jesus to have pre-existed.

All I'm asking for is a single scripture that would make it clear to everyone that Jesus didn't pre-exist.  Where is that one scripture?

[Marlin1]

Hi all,

It truly saddens me, when I read of so much confusion over the Godhead.  Do all realize that Jesus said that upon the revelation of the Godhead (who He is), He would build His church. Mat 16.

Some believe that He, (Jesus), is a little god that emptied Himself and came to earth.

Some believe He, (Jesus), is the 2nd person of the Godhead.

Some believe He, (Jesus), was born the Christ,(the anointed), the only begotten Son of God.

Some believe He, (Jesus), ?? (if I left someone out.)

I say this, according to Mat 16, without the true revelation of who He, (Jesus), is, you will never receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

God is not a God of confusion, that is man's realm and man's alone.

As hard as each of you try, you can not teach the Godhead.  Do you know why?  It is because Jesus said Mat 16:17 that it wasn't taught, but revealed.  From the very beginning it has been revelation,  How did Abel make a better sacrifice then Cain, because it was revealed to him, the truth of the 1st sin was blood, and it wasn't to Cain, who brought fruit.  

I believe that God is Just and will reveal to every person that will come to Him with all their hearts, the truth of the Godhead.  For that is the beginning, first and most important revelation from God.  His church is built upon it and it alone.

God bless each of you in your search.
Marlin

[Author]

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