JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[942767]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,14:26)

Quote (942767 @ April 16 2012,14:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,13:27) Hi 94, Begotten son or conceived son? Hi Nick: This is the event to which I refer.  Jesus was uniquely begotten of God in the womb of the virgin Mary.  Maybe I did not use the proper word. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Begotten technically means 'to be born', right? Yahshua would have had to be conceived first then 9 months later begotten or born, right? The word 'conceive means 'to become pregnant', right? The article that I just posted makes it known that he was born or begotten and then much later was BORN and begotten AGAIN. Yahshua said that one must be “BORN AGAIN” to inherit the Kingdom, right? Yahshua answered, “Truly, I tell you with certainty, unless one is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of Yahweh. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Do not be surprised that I said to you that you must be born again.

Hi Frank:

I understand the word “begotten” to mean “to procreate” or “generate” life. Life begins at conception, and so this means in the womb of Mary.

He was born into this world, anointed with the Holy Spirit after he was baptized at the Jordan, and he was the first man to born again from the dead.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Spiritual sonship is not by conception

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2012,19:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 20 2012,07:05) Just like when when Abraham's name “was called Abram”, it didn't mean he was really “Abram”?   It's sometimes fun to read the silly things people come up with in an effort to force the scriptures to teach a doctrine they really don't teach. If “his NAME IS CALLED the Son” wouldn't change the fact that Jesus IS the Son, then “his NAME IS CALLED the Word” shouldn't change the fact that Jesus IS the Word of God because he is God's main spokesman. And just as being called “Son” doesn't make Jesus EVERY MENTION of the word “son” in scripture, being called “the Word” doesn't mean Jesus is EVERY MENTION of the word “word” in scripture. But certain “sons” apply to Jesus – and certain “words” do too. Mike, You have blinders on or you would realize you have preconceived idea that the Word is a person. Neither the Word or the Father of many nations are persons though person can embody one or both. Take your blinders off and then you will see to stay on the path.

Kerwin, (actually, this is for Nick, Frank, Gene and Marty too)

Can you tell me why my understanding is UNSCRIPTURAL?

I believe that Jesus, who is also called (among many names) “the Word of God”, existed in the form of God (spirit being) before the ages were created through him.  (Heb 1:2)

I believe that this spokesman of God (“Word of God”) emptied himself, and willingly allowed himself to be made in the likeness of a human being – a likeness that was necessary in order for him to perform certain tasks that God commanded.

I believe Jesus when he said I came down from heaven, and will ascend to where I was before.  (As opposed to the imaginations of some here that “the spirit inside him” said those words.  The scripture surely doesn't SAY “the spirit inside him” said those words, so why should I believe that?)

I believe that when John said “the Word became flesh”, he was speaking of the spirit spokesman of God being made into the likeness of a human being.  I believe that's why, when the Word became flesh, he had the glory of God's only begotten Son…………… because he WAS God's only begotten Son.

Now, instead of telling me I'm wearing blinders, why don't you guys show me SCRIPTURALLY how my understanding can't possibly be the correct one?  (I don't want a barrage of words thrown at me, guys.  Nor do I want to hear a bunch of, “well, this scripture could be saying this”, or, “the tense of this Greek word could imply that”.  What I want to see from each of you is just ONE SCRIPTURE that makes my understanding a complete impossibility.

I will happily discuss said scriptures with you to see if they DO indeed make my understanding scripturally impossible.)

Ready?  Set?  GO!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 19 2012,20:19)

I think it is so funny how Mike continuously gets owned on the very forum that he co-moderates!

And I think it's hilarious how you keep referring to “you running away from my questions” as “me getting owned”.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (jammin @ April 20 2012,13:17)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 20 2012,10:09) Quote (jammin @ April 19 2012,19:11) Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2012,15:15) Quote (jammin @ April 19 2012,09:32) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2012,12:32) Hi Jammin, In the beginning: the HolySpirit was with God and was God; God's HolySpirit is now given to us. “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out  MY SPIRIT  upon all flesh;” (Joel 2:28) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj, that's not what the bible says make your own version LOL Jammin, Since when have you questioned that the Spirit of God is God? The first few verses of Genesis do say the Spirit and God are both there. you words are useless. i believe what john said. Revelation 19:13 Wycliffe Bible (WYC) 13 And he was clothed in a cloak sprinkled with blood; and the name of him was called The Son of God. [And he was clothed in a cloth sprinkled with blood; and the name of him was called The word, or Son, of God.] study hard boy   jammin, Quite interesting that you brought up the John Wycliffe translation of Revelation 19:13, since the original John Wycliffe English translation reads: “And he was clothid in a cloth spreynt with blood; and the name of hym was clepid The sone of God.” Note that the words in brackets indicate that these words were not in the original John Wycliffe English translation, but were later added by another person. The majority of the translations of this verse read: “He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God” (Revelation 19:13). Makes one wonder if this name/title that Yahshua is said to be called by should have been more accurately translated “Son of *Yahweh” or “Word of *Yahweh”, since it is quite obvious that the English words 'son' and 'word' have two completely different meanings altogether! BTW, It is YOUR words that you have posted in this forum that I find quite USELESS, but the source that you posted I have found quite telling. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh … the meaning of the verse is that the name Word refers to the son of GOD! that's what the bible says. not the father or the HS. read well boy LOL

jammin,

The name/title “The Word of Yahweh” is in reference to Father Yahweh's son Yahshua as the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear. Yahshua is not LITERALLY Father Yahweh's word. Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word and not a separate being that existed apart from Him in the beginning.

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 20 2012,13:26)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 19 2012,20:19) I think it is so funny how Mike continuously gets owned on the very forum that he co-moderates! And I think it's hilarious how you keep referring to “you running away from my questions” as “me getting owned”.

Mike,

I have never run away from any of your questions! You simply do not SEE (PERCEIVE OR UNDERSTAND) my answers!

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (kerwin @ April 20 2012,13:04)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 20 2012,07:34) Quote (kerwin @ April 20 2012,12:18) Frank, You act like a fool, just as Job's wife did, by blinding yourself and so denying the Word of God.   Do you believe that Scripture erred by translating Sheol to the Greek Netherworld Hades? The original Scripture using the name of the Hebrew land of the dead as the destination of the soul. Psalm 16:10 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 10 For You will not abandon my soul to [a]Sheol; Nor will You allow Your [c]Holy One to [d]undergo decay. Footnotes:    Psalm 16:10 I.e. the nether world    Psalm 16:10 Lit give    Psalm 16:10 Or godly one    Psalm 16:10 Or see corruption or the pit Peter quoting Psalms using the Greek name of the netherworld. Acts 2:27 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 27 BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR [a]ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO [c]UNDERGO DECAY. Footnotes:    Acts 2:27 Lit give    Acts 2:27 Or devout or pious    Acts 2:27 Lit see corruption And then it uses Tartarus for the lowest Sheol 2 Peter 2:4 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 4For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved, Two passages speaking of the lowest Sheol, wherein the rich man entered. Deuteronomy 32:22 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 22For a fire hath been kindled in Mine anger, And it burneth unto Sheol — the lowest, And consumeth earth and its increase, And setteth on fire foundations of mountains. Psalm 86:13 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 13For Thy kindness [is] great toward me, And Thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest Sheol. Whatever you have been taught by men; it is clear there is a land of the dead with a lower level. kerwin, It is you who acts a fool in continuing to teach you Greek philosophy here in this thread after one of the moderators clearly made it known that you are off topic in discussing this here in this thread. Frank, I was pointing out that you are a blind guide because you refuse to acknowledge the truth.  You can choose open your eyes or not as you please.  I do know that when the blind follow the blind they risk falling into a snare of the evil one. You need to take those blinders off for tunnel vision can cause you to fall into the Obstacle's traps. The credibility of a witness is relevant to any topic.

kerwin,

And still you continue to act a fool!

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (kerwin @ April 20 2012,13:08)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 20 2012,07:59) Hi KW, Then do you KNOW if it is part of Sheol? Nick, I am confident that the writers of Scriptures knew what they were doing when they used Tartarus; a part of Hades.

kerwin and Nick,

Stay on topic of the thread at hand as the co-moderator (Mike) of this forum has instructed you to do.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
If the Word is made in the likeness of a man then the Word is not a man.

Jesus of Nazareth was not MADE IN THE LIKENESS of man.
He was a man and he and Peter and Paul said so.

But you disagree?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (942767 @ April 20 2012,13:21)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 16 2012,14:26) Quote (942767 @ April 16 2012,14:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2012,13:27) Hi 94, Begotten son or conceived son? Hi Nick: This is the event to which I refer.  Jesus was uniquely begotten of God in the womb of the virgin Mary.  Maybe I did not use the proper word. Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Begotten technically means 'to be born', right? Yahshua would have had to be conceived first then 9 months later begotten or born, right? The word 'conceive means 'to become pregnant', right? The article that I just posted makes it known that he was born or begotten and then much later was BORN and begotten AGAIN. Yahshua said that one must be “BORN AGAIN” to inherit the Kingdom, right? Yahshua answered, “Truly, I tell you with certainty, unless one is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of Yahweh. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Do not be surprised that I said to you that you must be born again. Hi Frank: I understand the word “begotten” to mean “to procreate” or “generate” life.  Life begins at conception, and so this means in the womb of Mary. He was born into this world, anointed with the Holy Spirit after he was baptized at the Jordan, and he was the first man to born again from the dead. Love in Christ, Marty

942767,

I understand the word “begotten” in reference to Yahshua as being the “only begotten” son of Yahweh to his being born [begotten] again of the spirit. Yahshua was begotten of the flesh and then again later begotten again of the spirit of Yahweh. All men are born of the flesh as was Yahshua born of the flesh, but are later born of the spirit if and when they find favor with Father Yahweh. Note that it was much later in Yahshua's life that that Father Yahweh said “This is My son in whom I am well pleased.” Then Yahshua continued to please and find favor with his and our Father Yahweh till his very death. Note also that Yahshua before he was executed asked his and our Father Yahweh that He might remove this cup from him, but then he yet proceeded to say “Not my will, but your will be done.” Then after Yahshua had been executed he was resurrected and brought back to ETERNAL life by his and our Father Yahweh.

[jammin]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 20 2012,13:31)

Quote (jammin @ April 20 2012,13:17) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ April 20 2012,10:09) Quote (jammin @ April 19 2012,19:11) Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2012,15:15) Quote (jammin @ April 19 2012,09:32) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2012,12:32) Hi Jammin, In the beginning: the HolySpirit was with God and was God; God's HolySpirit is now given to us. “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out  MY SPIRIT  upon all flesh;” (Joel 2:28) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj, that's not what the bible says make your own version LOL Jammin, Since when have you questioned that the Spirit of God is God? The first few verses of Genesis do say the Spirit and God are both there. you words are useless. i believe what john said. Revelation 19:13 Wycliffe Bible (WYC) 13 And he was clothed in a cloak sprinkled with blood; and the name of him was called The Son of God. [And he was clothed in a cloth sprinkled with blood; and the name of him was called The word, or Son, of God.] study hard boy   jammin, Quite interesting that you brought up the John Wycliffe translation of Revelation 19:13, since the original John Wycliffe English translation reads: “And he was clothid in a cloth spreynt with blood; and the name of hym was clepid The sone of God.” Note that the words in brackets indicate that these words were not in the original John Wycliffe English translation, but were later added by another person. The majority of the translations of this verse read: “He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God” (Revelation 19:13). Makes one wonder if this name/title that Yahshua is said to be called by should have been more accurately translated “Son of *Yahweh” or “Word of *Yahweh”, since it is quite obvious that the English words 'son' and 'word' have two completely different meanings altogether! BTW, It is YOUR words that you have posted in this forum that I find quite USELESS, but the source that you posted I have found quite telling. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh … the meaning of the verse is that the name Word refers to the son of GOD! that's what the bible says. not the father or the HS. read well boy LOL jammin, The name/title “The Word of Yahweh” is in reference to Father Yahweh's son Yahshua as the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear. Yahshua is not LITERALLY Father Yahweh's word. Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word and not a separate being that existed apart from Him in the beginning. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? …

the word in john 1.1 is the son of God.
john said this in rev 19.13 and john 1.14

study hard boy

[NickHassan]

Hi Jammin,
But your study just takes you in circles

[jammin]

i believe what the bible says.

i do not believe people (like you) who use their imagination when reading bible

[kerwin]

Frank,

I am a fool for God in that I presented my case that rebuked you for your willful blindness and presented evidence of your lack of being creditable.

Your job is to take the blinders off and test your teachings and actions. I am but a watchman.

[kerwin]

Mike,

The Word of God is not a being.  What would you say if someone claimed your word was a being?  Wouldn't you think them silly even if a spokesman for you; was addressed as your Word.

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ April 20 2012,09:45)

i believe what the bible says. i do not believe people (like you) who use their imagination when reading bible

Jammin,

It takes imagination to conclude the Word of God is a person and not a concept and/or title. You need to test the way you live and the teaching you hold to.

[jammin]

kerwin,

can you say that the word was with kerwin?
LOL

your doctrine is so funny.

[NickHassan]

HI,
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

28.Philippians 2:7
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Neither of these verses are about Jesus of Nazareth because he was conceived in Mary.
He was not just made in the likeness of men but WAS a man

They are about the WORD, now become Jesus CHRIST.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 19 2012,20:52)

Hi MB, If the Word is made in the likeness of a man then the Word is not a man.

So if God raised up sons of Abraham from stones, are you saying that they wouldn't really be sons of Abraham, because they exsisted as stones previously?

(Please directly answer the question, Nick.)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2012,22:13)

Mike, The Word of God is not a being.  What would you say if someone claimed your word was a being?  Wouldn't you think them silly even if a spokesman for you; was addressed as your Word.

And what of the spokesman for the King of Abyssinia, Kerwin?  That spokesman for the king was called “the Word of the King”.

Is it hard for you to understand the difference between a LIVING BEING who is called “the Word” because he is a spokesman, and an actual spoken or written word?

Would it be “silly” in your mind to hear that The Word of the King was invited to dinner, because your mind can't comprehend the difference between a PERSON being invited and an actual spoken word being invited?  

Kerwin, I'm quite sure you understand that “The Word of God” in Revelation 19:13 is Jesus.  What I'm asking for is a SCRIPTURE that makes it impossible for the Word of God in John 1:1 and 1:14 to ALSO be referring to Jesus.

Your answer that it would be “silly” to call a person a word is nothing but pretense on your part, because you KNOW a person is called the Word in Rev 19:13.

I await a scripture that prohibits my understanding of a pre-existent Jesus from being a reality.  Nick wasn't able to list one in his response to my post.  And YOU didn't list one either. Frank didn't even bother to address the post at all, which is exactly what I expected from him.  (That is how he “owns” me all the time on this site.   )  

Is the absence of a scripture in your and Nick's posts because there is no scripture the makes my understanding null and void?

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