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Pierre,
You have made good, solid, scriptural posts my friend!
It seems Kerwin is trying to defeat you by pointing out that “word” doesn't ALWAYS refer to Jesus in the scriptures.
Hey Kerwin! We already know that the word “word” doesn't ALWAYS refer to Jesus. Showing us scriptures where it doesn't refer to Jesus does nothing to prove your claim that it doesn't refer to Jesus in John 1:1 and 1:14 though.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2012,17:27) Pierre, Quote Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Deuteronomy 30:14
New International Version (NIV)14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
Deuteronomy 32:46
New International Version (NIV)46 he said to them, “Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law.
Is The Word in the mouth and heart of Jesus; and does he take it to heart? Is the same true about God and his Saintly Spirit?
Quote Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.Genesis 1
New International Version (NIV)1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.God, his Spirit, and the Word are all present in the beginning.
Quote but what man could pay the ransom for Adam sin Hebrews 4:15
New International Version (NIV)15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
Jesus, who is the image of God’s glory; as he did not sin even though tempted like his brothers.
Quote not one single men that ever live or will come to live through Adam offspring could ever be able to provide the sacrifice Luke 9:22
New International Version (NIV)2 And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”
Romans 5
New International Version (NIV)18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Jesus is the Son of Adam who did not fall short of the glory of God. He is the Servant that God placed his Spirit on.
Quote because ALL HAVE FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD Romans 3
New International Version (NIV)22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
It is clear Jesus did not as it is through him righteousness is given to those who have fallen short.
Quote scriptures says that the only thing left for God was to provide the sacrifice himself so that the one he will send would NOT BE FROM EARTH AND SO NOT UNDER THE CURSE OF ADAM ,AND WOULD HAVE THE GLORY OF GOD AND SO TOTALLY QUALIFIED TO DO THAT JOB, but who would be chosen What Scripture states is:
Isaiah 42:1
New International Version (NIV)1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will bring justice to the nations.It is clear God placed his Spirit on his chosen servant; the same Spirit that was there in the beginning. It is the Spirit that reveals The Word.
KerwinIsa 51:5 My righteousness draws near speedily,
my salvation is on the way,
and my arm will bring justice to the nations.
The islands will look to me
and wait in hope for my arm.PS 49:7 No man can by any means redeem his brother
Or give to God a ransom for him—Isa 59:1 Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save,
nor his ear too dull to hear.
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated
you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.
Isa 59:3 For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken lies,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.
Isa 59:4 No one calls for justice;
no one pleads his case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments and speak lies;
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.
Isa 59:5 They hatch the eggs of vipers
and spin a spider’s web.
Whoever eats their eggs will die,
and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.
Isa 59:6 Their cobwebs are useless for clothing;
they cannot cover themselves with what they make.
Their deeds are evil deeds,
and acts of violence are in their hands.
Isa 59:7 Their feet rush into sin;
they are swift to shed innocent blood.
Their thoughts are evil thoughts;
ruin and destruction mark their ways.
Isa 59:8 The way of peace they do not know;
there is no justice in their paths.
They have turned them into crooked roads;
no one who walks in them will know peace.Isa 59:9 So justice is far from us,
and righteousness does not reach us.
We look for light, but all is darkness;
for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows.
Isa 59:10 Like the blind we grope along the wall,
feeling our way like men without eyes.
At midday we stumble as if it were twilight;
among the strong, we are like the dead.
Isa 59:11 We all growl like bears;
we moan mournfully like doves.
We look for justice, but find none;
for deliverance, but it is far away.Isa 59:12 For our offenses a
re many in your sight,
and our sins testify against us.
Our offenses are ever with us,
and we acknowledge our iniquities:
Isa 59:13 rebellion and treachery against the LORD,
turning our backs on our God,
fomenting oppression and revolt,
uttering lies our hearts have conceived.
Isa 59:14 So justice is driven back,
and righteousness stands at a distance;
truth has stumbled in the streets,
honesty cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Truth is nowhere to be found,
and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.The LORD looked and was displeased
that there was no justice.
Isa 59:16 He saw that there was no one,
he was appalled that there was no one to intervene;
so his own arm worked salvation for him,
and his own righteousness sustained him.
Isa 59:17 He put on righteousness as his breastplate,
and the helmet of salvation on his head;
he put on the garments of vengeance
and wrapped himself in zeal as in a cloak.
Isa 59:18 According to what they have done,
so will he repay
wrath to his enemies
and retribution to his foes;
he will repay the islands their due.
Isa 59:19 From the west, men will fear the name of the LORD,
and from the rising of the sun, they will revere his glory.
For he will come like a pent-up flood
that the breath of the LORD drives along.Isa 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
declares the LORD.
Isa 59:21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the LORD. “My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever,” says the LORD.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 29 2012,11:05) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2012,12:06)
“The Word” of life is “The Spirit” of life. (see John 6:63)
They handled the word of life by giving it to others.“What? came the word of God out from you?
or came it unto you only? (1 Cor 14:36)
So they picked up the Spirit of life in their human hands and literally gave it to others?
Hi Mike,I do NOT see the word “Human” in the text, do you?
And the words “picked-up” are not in there either.
What do you have to say about 1 Cor 14:36?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org1 Cor 14:36 doesn't do anything in the way of changing the words, “our hands have handled” in 1 John 1:1.
What “word” that was with the Father before being made manifest to human beings is able to be handled with human hands?
(Btw, John said “OUR hands” Ed. So I think it's safe to assume he was speaking of HUMAN hands. Please don't make silly non-points as a way to take up space on this site, and time from my life. Okay?)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2012,18:39) Hi ED,
He does not grasp spiritual things yet.
See that Ed?
This is now the best Nick can do against me. He can't refute the scriptures or the points I make, and so he is left with meaningless ad hominems.
Hi MB,
No point in comparing the natural with the Spiritual.
It is like mixing oil and water.Choose either the wisdom of men or that of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2012,18:44) Hi MB,
No point in comparing the natural with the Spiritual.
It is like mixing oil and water.Choose either the wisdom of men or that of God.
Nlooks familiar
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 29 2012,11:39) 1 Cor 14:36 doesn't do anything in the way of changing the words, “our hands have handled” in 1 John 1:1. What “word” that was with the Father before being made manifest to human beings is able to be handled with human hands?
(Btw, John said “OUR hands” Ed. So I think it's safe to assume he was speaking of HUMAN hands. Please don't make silly non-points as a way to take up space on this site, and time from my life. Okay?)
Hi Mike, (John 6:63)God's words are spirit and are life.
God's HolySpirit was with the Father,
and is now in Christian believers in him.The Apostles handled “The Word” of God.
The translators handled “The Word” of God.
And we Christians handle “The Word” of God.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgthis topic has been answered and it clearly proves that the word is Christ.
the moderator can now lock this thread.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 29 2012,03:29) Hi Jammin, Were the Scribes and Pharisees not bible scholars?
What do bible scholars have to do with anything?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
i said make your own version edj,no version that says that the Word in john 1.1 is the holy spirit.
now if you publish your own version, that would be the first version that will support your man made doctine.
Quote (jammin @ Mar. 29 2012,10:59) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 29 2012,03:29) Hi Jammin, Were the Scribes and Pharisees not bible scholars?
What do bible scholars have to do with anything?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
i said make your own version edj,no version that says that the Word in john 1.1 is the holy spirit.
now if you publish your own version, that would be the first version that will support your man made doctine.
Jammin,Genesis 1:1-5 teaches us that God, his Spirit, and his Word were there in the beginning.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2012,17:39) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 29 2012,10:59) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 29 2012,03:29) Hi Jammin, Were the Scribes and Pharisees not bible scholars?
What do bible scholars have to do with anything?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
i said make your own version edj,no version that says that the Word in john 1.1 is the holy spirit.
now if you publish your own version, that would be the first version that will support your man made doctine.
Jammin,Genesis 1:1-5 teaches us that God, his Spirit, and his Word were there in the beginning.
Hi Kerwin,They have to disregard many verses to hold onto the traditions of men.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 29 2012,06:03) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 27 2012,21:10) Stop behaving like a hypocrite or stop trying to argue that John 1:1 states a god. Appeals to authority are questionable when you choose to doubt that authority when it disagrees with you.
Even the Trinitarian authorities freely acknowledge “a god” as a completely faithful translation of John 1:1c, Kerwin.The 25 Trinitarian scholars of NETNotes even go as far as to point out that 1:1c can't possibly be talking about THE God, because the Word was WITH “THE God”.
Mike,You are doing the same thing that I do; namely taking the words of experts and putting them against the words of translators. I see nothing wrong with it since I doubt any translator was carried along by the Spirit as they translated.
I therefore use the same measurements with you as I do with myself and so view your argument as legitimate. I ask you to do the same even if you do not agree with my conclusions.
An argument can be both sound and valid but never the less untrue. It is the Spirit of God that leads us to the truth.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 29 2012,06:15) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2012,17:27) Pierre, Quote Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Deuteronomy 30:14
New International Version (NIV)14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
Deuteronomy 32:46
New International Version (NIV)46 he said to them, “Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law.
Is The Word in the mouth and heart of Jesus; and does he take it to heart? Is the same true about God and his Saintly Spirit?
Quote Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.Genesis 1
New International Version (NIV)1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.God, his Spirit, and the Word are all present in the beginning.
Quote but what man could pay the ransom for Adam sin Hebrews 4:15
New International Version (NIV)15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
Jesus, who is the image of God’s glory; as he did not sin even though tempted like his brothers.
Quote not one single men that ever live or will come to live through Adam offspring could ever be able to provide the sacrifice Luke 9:22
New International Version (NIV)2 And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”
Romans 5
New International Version (NIV)18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Jesus is the Son of Adam who did not fall short of the glory of God. He is the Servant that God placed his Spirit on.
Quote because ALL HAVE FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD Romans 3
New International Version (NIV)22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
It is clear Jesus did not as it is through him righteousness is given to those who have fallen short.
Quote scriptures says that the only thing left for God was to provide the sacrifice himself so that the one he will send would NOT BE FROM EARTH AND SO NOT UNDER THE CURSE OF ADAM ,AND WOULD HAVE THE GLORY OF GOD AND SO TOTALLY QUALIFIED TO DO THAT JOB, but who would be chosen What Scripture states is:
Isaiah 42:1
New International Version (NIV)1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will bring justice to the nations.It is clear God placed his Spirit on his chosen servant; the same Spirit that was there in the beginning. It is the Spirit that reveals The Word.
KerwinIsa 51:5 My righteousness draws near speedily,
my salvation is on the way,
and my arm will bring justice to the nations.
The islands will look to me
and wait in hope for my arm.PS 49:7 No man can by any means redeem his brother
Or give to God a ransom for him—Isa 59:1 Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save,
nor his ear too dull to hear.
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated
you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.
Isa 59:3 For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken lies,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.
Isa 59:4 No one calls for justice;
no one pleads his case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments and speak lies;
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.
Isa 59:5 They hatch the eggs of vipers
and spin a spider’s web.
Whoever eats their eggs will die,
and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.
Isa 59:6 Their cobwebs are useless for clothing;
they cannot cover themselves with what they make.
Their deeds are evil deeds,
and acts of violence are in their hands.
Isa 59:7 Their feet rush into sin;
they are swift to shed innocent blood.
Their thoughts are evil thoughts;
ruin and destruction mark their ways.
Isa 59:8 The way of peace they do not know;
there is no justice in their paths.
They have turned them into crooked roads;
no one who walks in them will know peace.Isa 59:9 So justice is far from us,
and righteousness does not reach us.
We look for light, but all is darkness;
for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows.
Isa 59:10 Like the blind we grope along the wall,
feeling our way like men without eyes.
At midday we stumble as if it were twilight;
among the strong, we are like the
dead.
Isa 59:11 We all growl like bears;
we moan mournfully like doves.
We look for justice, but find none;
for deliverance, but it is far away.Isa 59:12 For our offenses are many in your sight,
and our sins testify against us.
Our offenses are ever with us,
and we acknowledge our iniquities:
Isa 59:13 rebellion and treachery against the LORD,
turning our backs on our God,
fomenting oppression and revolt,
uttering lies our hearts have conceived.
Isa 59:14 So justice is driven back,
and righteousness stands at a distance;
truth has stumbled in the streets,
honesty cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Truth is nowhere to be found,
and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.The LORD looked and was displeased
that there was no justice.
Isa 59:16 He saw that there was no one,
he was appalled that there was no one to intervene;
so his own arm worked salvation for him,
and his own righteousness sustained him.
Isa 59:17 He put on righteousness as his breastplate,
and the helmet of salvation on his head;
he put on the garments of vengeance
and wrapped himself in zeal as in a cloak.
Isa 59:18 According to what they have done,
so will he repay
wrath to his enemies
and retribution to his foes;
he will repay the islands their due.
Isa 59:19 From the west, men will fear the name of the LORD,
and from the rising of the sun, they will revere his glory.
For he will come like a pent-up flood
that the breath of the LORD drives along.Isa 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
declares the LORD.
Isa 59:21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the LORD. “My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever,” says the LORD.
Pierre,Among others you quoted:
Isa 59:3 For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken lies,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.That is not true of Jesus.
Proverbs 10:16
New International Version (NIV)16 The wages of the righteous is life,
but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.Never the less he chose to pay the wage of the sinner though he was due the wages of the righteous. Why do you think he made that choice? Here is a clue:
Hosea 6:6
New International Version (NIV)6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2012,17:39) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 29 2012,10:59) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 29 2012,03:29) Hi Jammin, Were the Scribes and Pharisees not bible scholars?
What do bible scholars have to do with anything?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
i said make your own version edj,no version that says that the Word in john 1.1 is the holy spirit.
now if you publish your own version, that would be the first version that will support your man made doctine.
Jammin,Genesis 1:1-5 teaches us that God, his Spirit, and his Word were there in the beginning.
kerwin,it says “GOD”
now if you use that word, the bible teaches us that the father and the son have the same nature, GOD.
if i say “GOD”, this is the nature of the father, son and HS.
—-
now in john 1.1, no translation that says that the word is the HS. that is just your opinion. if you publish your own version, then your man made doctrine will be supported by the your version.Hi Jammin,
It does not say that.
You have made your own version.
God is just not a nature but He should have become your Father.Kerwin
Quote Pierre, Among others you quoted:
Isa 59:3 For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken lies,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.That is not true of Jesus.
why not
did you not say that he his a mere man ?the fact that some men have received the holy spirit ,does not make them sinless ,or does it
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