JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2012,20:43)

Hi MB, The anointed Jesus did. His unity with the Word is utter. His history now is of the Spirit of Christ

And amused I am. Thanks Nick.

I don't ever want to hear you correcting anyone by saying “CHRIST Jesus” again, okay? Because we can apparently say all things were created through JESUS and be correct, right?

Paul said “Jesus” because Jesus is the one who was in the form of God before being made into the likeness of a man.

Nick, give it up already. Doesn't it even bother you that your doctrine calls for God having two opposing wills? Or that it teaches that God was one witness, and the FATHER OF God was the second witness? If these things don't cause you to backpeddle, shouldn't they at least cause you to stand still for a minute and regroup?

[NickHassan]

Hi Mb,
You can do what you like and be amused how you will
but until you grasp the relevance of the anointing
to the man Jesus you will not get yourself
into truth beyond the shallow end.

[mikeboll64]

My truth doesn't require my God to have two opposing wills – or a Father of His own.

I'll stick with what the scriptures actually teach, instead of believing in an unscriptural “concept” that “came to” Nick Hassan at an advanced age.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2012,08:27)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2012,18:22) When did you read every single Bible in the history of the world? I made an educated guess.  Be sure to quote the verse your way if you ever find it in a real Bible. From NETNotes: 5777 Tense – Aorist The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations. The events described by the aorist tense are classified into a number of categories by grammarians. The most common of these include a view of the action as having begun from a certain point (“inceptive aorist”), or having ended at a certain point (“cumulative aorist”), or merely existing at a certain point (“punctiliar aorist”). The categorization of other cases can be found in Greek reference grammars. The English reader need not concern himself with most of these finer points concerning the aorist tense, since in most cases they cannot be rendered accurately in English translation, being fine points of Greek exegesis only. The common practice of rendering an aorist by a simple English past tense should suffice in most cases. What you do is to translate them as present tenses up until the point in that passage where you know you can no longer do so.  After that point, you are perfectly fine with translating them as past tenses as they are commonly translated.  But you forget that this verses 5 through 8 are all one sentence.  And you ignore how illogical it would be to switch tenses in the middle of an ongoing sentence. Kerwin, I have no desire to have this discussion with you.  You add words to scripture when it suits your doctrine.  You change commonly accepted Greek grammar when it suits your doctrine.  And it's not below you to spout complete, unfathomable rubbish concerning the interpretation of certain scriptures when it suits your doctrine. Our Lord said, “I came down from heaven”.  I believe him and you don't – simple as that.

Mike,

Don't accuse others of doing what you do.

The source I found speaks of the aorist indicative and not aorists in general.  As your source makes clear, aorists,in general' are not past tense though the can be used that way in certain circumstances.  in keeping with this idea Net notes also makes clear that there are times an aorist should not be translated to a past tense. The source I used goes more detail.

You do not believe that Jesus Anointed comes from heaven because if you did you would understand his words.

If you do not want to do research and converse on this then it is fine with me.  The lesson of Philippians 2:5-7 is that we are to be like minded with Christ as he is the pioneer of our faith.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2012,21:17)

You do not believe that Jesus Anointed comes from heaven because if you did you would understand his words.

What scripture says “Jesus ANOINTED” came down from heaven?  The one I know of says “JESUS said he came down from heaven”.

Nor does my source imply that “once in a rare while” the aorist tense is translated as a simple English past tense.  Rather, it implies that once in a rare while, it is NOT translated that way.  It most generally IS.

Kerwin, write your own scriptures if you think that is the way to God.  I couldn't care less.

I would like to know whether or not you think it odd to change tenses mid-sentence without a modifying word or phrase, such as “because” or “since”.

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2012,14:09)

My truth doesn't require my God to have two opposing wills – or a Father of His own. I'll stick with what the scriptures actually teach, instead of believing in an unscriptural “concept” that “came to” Nick Hassan at an advanced age.

Hi MB,
Where did the will of Jesus the anointed one OPPOSE that of God?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So you prefer two gods, one called Jesus,the two being at a higher echelon than many other gods.
They had separate natures and wills and abilities and the greater sent the lesser one?
Where did all the others originate from and why was there such individuality?
Are you not making God according to your human concepts-like trinity?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Your God is too small.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2012,09:59)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2012,21:17) You do not believe that Jesus Anointed comes from heaven because if you did you would understand his words. What scripture says “Jesus ANOINTED” came down from heaven?  The one I know of says “JESUS said he came down from heaven”. Nor does my source imply that “once in a rare while” the aorist tense is translated as a simple English past tense.  Rather, it implies that once in a rare while, it is NOT translated that way.  It most generally IS. Kerwin, write your own scriptures if you think that is the way to God.  I couldn't care less. I would like to know whether or not you think it odd to change tenses mid-sentence without a modifying word or phrase, such as “because” or “since”.

Mike,

Your source did not address a aorist indicative specifically.  My source did.  That is the difference from going to a general practitioner  or going to a doctor specialized to your medical needs.  

Do you believe the prophets of old came from God?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2012,22:09)

Hi MB, So you prefer two gods, one called Jesus,the two being at a higher echelon than many other gods. They had separate natures and wills and abilities and the greater sent the lesser one? Where did all the others originate from and why was there such individuality?

From the One who created all things.

Some know Him as the God OF gods, the Most High God, and God Almighty.

Surely these titles imply other, lessor gods.  And since Jesus IS called a god in scripture, and Jesus has as his own God the God OF gods, then yes, Jesus is a lesser god that the Most High God sent.

Have I spoken against scripture here?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,23:28)

Be like Jesus Christ in your attitude, who being in the form of God, does not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but empties himself,  having taken the form of a bond-servant, having been made in the likeness of mankind.

Kerwin,

Do you see how the transition from present to past tense in your translation makes no sense?

You told me that even as the NASB translates it, it still doesn't say Jesus pre-existed.  Then why would you take it upon yourself to re-translate almost 2000 years worth of Bibles that were produced from EXPERTS in the Greek language?  Why would you produce your own nonsensical sentence structure if the CORRECT translation doesn't hurt your non-preexistent doctrine anyway?  

In other words, why make yourself out to be one who can't understand simple grammar for nothing?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2012,22:38)

Do you believe the prophets of old came from God?

All things come from God.  (1 Cor 8:6)

But Jesus is the only prophet of God who ever said, “I came down from heaven.”

(Note:  He did NOT say, “THE SPIRIT INSIDE OF ME came down from heaven.”)

Jesus is the only prophet of God who ever said he had glory alongside his God before the world began.  

(Note:  He did NOT say THE THOUGHT OF ME IN GOD'S HEAD had glory alongside God before the world began.)

Jesus is the only prophet of God about whom it was said, “The Word became flesh, dwelled among us, and had the glory of God's only begotten.”

(Note:  It does NOT say, “The Word came to be IN someone who was flesh; NOR does it say, “The Word MERGED WITH someone who was flesh………….)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2012,22:05)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2012,14:09) My truth doesn't require my God to have two opposing wills – or a Father of His own. I'll stick with what the scriptures actually teach, instead of believing in an unscriptural “concept” that “came to” Nick Hassan at an advanced age. Hi MB, Where did the will of Jesus the anointed one OPPOSE that of God?

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

Two wills mentioned, Nick.  Jesus DIDN'T come to do ONE of those TWO wills……………. BUT INSTEAD…………… came to do the OTHER of those TWO wills.

Shall I post more examples of Jesus's will not being God's will?  Or will this suffice?

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2012,07:15)

(Note:  It does NOT say, “The Word came to be IN someone who was flesh; NOR does it say, “The Word MERGED WITH someone who was flesh………….)

Hi Mike,

Jn.1:14 And the word became flesh, and dwelt IN us,

The greek word is ev it means in.

Period Amen.

Peace.

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ Mar. 18 2012,12:18)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2012,07:15) (Note:  It does NOT say, “The Word came to be IN someone who was flesh; NOR does it say, “The Word MERGED WITH someone who was flesh………….) Hi Mike, Jn.1:14     And the word became flesh, and dwelt IN us, The greek word is ev it means in. Period  Amen. Peace.

abe

John 1:14
Context
NET ©
Now 1 the Word became flesh 2 and took up residence 3 among us. We 4 saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, 5 full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.
NIV ©
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
NASB ©
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
NLT ©
So the Word became human and lived here on earth among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father.
MSG ©
The Word became flesh and blood, and moved into the neighborhood. We saw the glory with our own eyes, the one-of-a-kind glory, like Father, like Son, Generous inside and out, true from start to finish.
BBE ©
And so the Word became flesh and took a place among us for a time; and we saw his glory—such glory as is given to an only son by his father—saw it to be true and full of grace.
NRSV ©
And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth.
NKJV ©
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
KJV
And
the Word
was made
(5633) flesh
_, and
dwelt
(5656) among
us
_, (and
we beheld
(5662) his
glory
_, the glory
as
of the only begotten
of
the Father
,) full
of grace
and
truth
_.
NASB ©
And the Word
became
flesh
, and dwelt
among
us, and we saw
His glory
, glory
as of the only
begotten
from the Father
, full
of grace
and truth
.
GREEK
kai

CONJo

T-NSMlogov

N-NSMsarx

N-NSFegeneto
(5633)
V-2ADI-3Skai

CONJeskhnwsen
(5656)
V-AAI-3Sen

PREPhmin

P-1DPkai

CONJeyeasameya
(5662)
V-ADI-1Pthn

T-ASFdoxan

are you saying “IN” just to show your confusion or your believe

is it your believe and to you it then true ,please explain how can John make a so big mistake ? taking about Jesus declare him the WORD of God waking on earth please explain

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2012,02:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2012,22:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2012,14:09) My truth doesn't require my God to have two opposing wills – or a Father of His own. I'll stick with what the scriptures actually teach, instead of believing in an unscriptural “concept” that “came to” Nick Hassan at an advanced age. Hi MB, Where did the will of Jesus the anointed one OPPOSE that of God? John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. Two wills mentioned, Nick.  Jesus DIDN'T come to do ONE of those TWO wills……………. BUT INSTEAD…………… came to do the OTHER of those TWO wills. Shall I post more examples of Jesus's will not being God's will?  Or will this suffice?

Hi MB,
I guess that is your way of saying there was no opposition.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
CHRIST Jesus became as a servant.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Jesus was the great prophet and much of the words he spoke were in prophecy.
No other prophet has been so closely known. No other had books written about his work.
Like other prophets his inspiration, his actions and his words were all from above.

But you would take his spiritual words and use them in the natural realm and make him a demigod.

The same happened with Paul and Barnabas and they tore their clothes and protested vehemently.

[abe]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 17 2012,10:42)

Quote (abe @ Mar. 18 2012,12:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2012,07:15) (Note:  It does NOT say, “The Word came to be IN someone who was flesh; NOR does it say, “The Word MERGED WITH someone who was flesh………….) Hi Mike, Jn.1:14     And the word became flesh, and dwelt IN us, The greek word is ev it means in. Period  Amen. Peace. abe John 1:14 Context NET © Now 1  the Word became flesh 2  and took up residence 3  among us. We 4  saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, 5  full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. NIV © The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. NASB © And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. NLT © So the Word became human and lived here on earth among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father. MSG © The Word became flesh and blood, and moved into the neighborhood. We saw the glory with our own eyes, the one-of-a-kind glory, like Father, like Son, Generous inside and out, true from start to finish. BBE © And so the Word became flesh and took a place among us for a time; and we saw his glory—such glory as is given to an only son by his father—saw it to be true and full of grace. NRSV © And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth. NKJV © And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. KJV And the Word was made (5633) flesh _, and dwelt (5656) among us _, (and we beheld (5662) his glory _, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father ,) full of grace and truth _. NASB © And the Word became flesh , and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory , glory as of the only begotten from the Father , full of grace and truth . GREEK kai CONJo T-NSMlogov N-NSMsarx N-NSFegeneto (5633) V-2ADI-3Skai CONJeskhnwsen (5656) V-AAI-3Sen PREPhmin P-1DPkai CONJeyeasameya (5662) V-ADI-1Pthn T-ASFdoxan are you saying “IN” just to show your confusion or your believe   is it your believe and to you it then true ,please explain how can John make a so big mistake ? taking about Jesus declare him the WORD of God waking on earth please explain

Hi Pierre,

Strongs #1722- en (a preposition ) – properly, in (inside, within ); (figuratively) ” in the realm (sphere) of ” as in the condition (state) in which something operates from the inside (within).

I didn't write this, but I do understand it.

Peace brother.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,13:05)

Hi MB, CHRIST Jesus became as a servant.

N

how can someone BECAME AS A SERVANT

DID YOU MEAN ;CAME AS A SERVANT???

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