JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2012,13:22)

Pierre, It is just a matter of thinking in spiritual ways.  Jesus is the Son of David as of his body and the Son of God as of his Spirit.  Anyone familiar with the good news knows that. Romans 1 King James Version (KJV) 1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;  4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Kerwin

was Jesus the son of David no,he was only a decedent of his genealogy David died almost 1000 years earlier

he is the son of God because he his really the son of God (THE WORD)this is what people can not grasp Jhn 1;14

Rom1
concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;  4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

do you understand what Paul says ? this is your quoted scriptures

HE WAS MADE ;

HE WAS DECLARED (WITH POWER)

BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS

AND ALSO BY ;HIS RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD

those are the key factors that establish that Christ was the WORD OF GOD and came down to us to save us all

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
So the resurrection of Jesus Christ by God's Spirit proved him to be the promised Son of God

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2012,14:22)

Hi T, So the resurrection of Jesus Christ by God's Spirit proved him to be the promised Son of God

N

is this in scriptures??? or you just invented ??

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2012,21:29)

The point I was making was that you used the word JESUS instead of what is written[CHRIST JESUS] when you discussed Phil 2.5f.

Yet your claim is that Jesus was no part of being in the form of God before the world began.  Your claim is that the person “Jesus” did not empty himself and become made into a human being.

So why did Paul use the word “Jesus” then?  Wouldn't your understanding require Paul to say, “Have in you the mind of THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, who was in the form of God……………..” ?

If “Jesus of Nazareth” was no part of the happening described in Phil 2, then why did Paul say “Jesus” at all?

Or do you suppose that the spirit of Christ had the name “Jesus” before it merged with Jesus of Nazareth?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,02:04)

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Yes Kerwin,

What you've posted from the NASB is correct from the context.

But here is what you've devised on your own:

Have this attitude which is in Jesus Christ, who is in the form of God but doesn't consider equality with God something to be grasped, but instead empties himself……………………

Go on.  How does it end?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,12:39)

Mike, I figured that would be clear to those with spiritual understanding as they know that Jesus is still a servant in the form of God's Spirit and the likeness of mankind's body.

Jesus became a spirit, Kerwin.  He is no longer in mankind's body, for one thing.  Read Gal 1:1 and 11.  Paul didn't receive his gospel from ANY MAN, but from Jesus and God.

But this is the wrong thread for that discussion.  I have a thread called “Is Jesus still a man in heaven” if you want to put your two cents in.

Secondly, anyone who claims you must “have spirit” to understand this or that is someone who is claiming unscriptural things.  The Trinitarians make this same claim all the time – “The spirit must show you about the Trinity Godhead“.

Nick also uses it all the time.  But it translates into “The scriptures don't actually teach the doctrine I'm preaching, so I must pretend that some spirit told me this doctrine.  And I will just tell those who don't believe my made up doctrine that it is because they don't have spiritual understanding.“

(For a recent example of this, look a couple of posts back in this thread, Kerwin.  You'll see Nick's post where he tries to rationalize the fact that he knows his doctrine doesn't make scriptural sense by saying, in effect, “Man's brain cannot comprehend it.”   )

[jammin]

nick and kerwin,

read the context well. and pls stop sniffing mosquito coil when reading

John 1:1-14

English Standard Version (ESV)
The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3  All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4  In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men. 5  The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8  He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9  The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people[c] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

that is so very simple to understand. the Word is the Son of GOD, CHRIST! Christ became FLESH!

that's what paul also said in phil 2.6-7

read well dreamer boys

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2012,01:53)

Hi KW, Certainly the son of David according to the flesh and the Son of God by his rebirth of God's Spirit. But he was soul and spirit also. His own human spirit left at calvary. His soul/WORD is WHO he is and always will be. Just like all of us in him. Eph 5.32

Nick,

I believe you are getting confused by synonyms.  In this scripture what part of the boy gives life to his body?

1 Kings 17
King James Version (KJV)

20And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
21And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
22And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Luke 23:46
King James Version (KJV)

46And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

In these passages soul and spirit are synonymous because a soul is spirit in form.

[mikeboll64]

There is a “What is the soul?” thread guys.

[kerwin]

Pierre,

As you surmised I was using Son to mean Firstborn descendent of David.  Your conception of Jesus being 100% the descendent of David as of the body and 100% the son of God as of the body is flawed as its ads up to 200% and the total can only be 100%

Don’t you understand how the unbelieving Jews in John 8:37-42 are both the descendents of Abraham as of the body and the children of Satan as of the spirit?

If you understand that then you understand how Jesus is both a descendent of David as of the flesh and a child of God as of the Spirit.

You certainly appear to understand that since you wrote “BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS”.

I agree that he was formed in his mother’s womb as is common to mankind even though he was miraculously conceived.  I also agree that he was resurrected by the power of God.  

Being a child of God by default makes anyone the Word as God speaks, acts, and thinks through them.   Jesus is the preeminent of them because he has been appointed king of all of them

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2012,08:35)

There is a “What is the soul?” thread guys.

Mike,

I am addressing Nick's “His soul/WORD is WHO he is and always will be.” claim. I believe that is in line with this thread.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2012,03:36)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,12:39) Mike, I figured that would be clear to those with spiritual understanding as they know that Jesus is still a servant in the form of God's Spirit and the likeness of mankind's body. Jesus became a spirit, Kerwin.  He is no longer in mankind's body, for one thing.  Read Gal 1:1 and 11.  Paul didn't receive his gospel from ANY MAN, but from Jesus and God. But this is the wrong thread for that discussion.  I have a thread called “Is Jesus still a man in heaven” if you want to put your two cents in. Secondly, anyone who claims you must “have spirit” to understand this or that is someone who is claiming unscriptural things.  The Trinitarians make this same claim all the time – “The spirit must show you about the Trinity Godhead“. Nick also uses it all the time.  But it translates into “The scriptures don't actually teach the doctrine I'm preaching, so I must pretend that some spirit told me this doctrine.  And I will just tell those who don't believe my made up doctrine that it is because they don't have spiritual understanding.“ (For a recent example of this, look a couple of posts back in this thread, Kerwin.  You'll see Nick's post where he tries to rationalize the fact that he knows his doctrine doesn't make scriptural sense by saying, in effect, “Man's brain cannot comprehend it.”   )

Mike,

I hear you. See my Mar. 16 2012,08:41 post to Pierre which ties Jesus being the Son of God's spirit back with John's teaching in John 1.

[abe]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,18:41)

Don’t you understand how the unbelieving Jews in John 8:37-42 are both the descendents of Abraham as of the body and the children of Satan as of the spirit?

Hi Kerwin,

Jn.8:37 I ( Jesus ) know you are the seed of Abraham; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you.

Gal.3:16 will tell you exactly who the seed of Abraham is Christ.

Strongs number is #4690 it is used 46 times 7- children
1 used for conceive
4-descendant
16- descendants
1- posterity
10- seed
4- seeds

The Trinitarian scholars try to hide a fact of their theology. That God promised himself that he would send him himself.

God promised the Son of God that he would send him the Holy Spirit.

[jammin]

the Word is Christ! the son of GOD! and not the father or the HS

john 1.1
1 In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
14 So the Word became human[a] and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2012,20:41)

Pierre, As you surmised I was using Son to mean Firstborn descendent of David.  Your conception of Jesus being 100% the descendent of David as of the body and 100% the son of God as of the body is flawed as its ads up to 200% and the total can only be 100% Don’t you understand how the unbelieving Jews in John 8:37-42 are both the descendents of Abraham as of the body and the children of Satan as of the spirit? If you understand that then you understand how Jesus is both a descendent of David as of the flesh and a child of God as of the Spirit. You certainly appear to understand that since you wrote “BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS”. I agree that he was formed in his mother’s womb as is common to mankind even though he was miraculously conceived.  I also agree that he was resurrected by the power of God.   Being a child of God by default makes anyone the Word as God speaks, acts, and thinks through them.   Jesus is the preeminent of them because he has been appointed king of all of them

Kerwin

We're do you pick up those things I never say that I even believe that Jesus was 100% from David how could it be his father his God,

You must be confused with edj

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2012,03:23)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,02:04) Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Yes Kerwin, What you've posted from the NASB is correct from the context. But here is what you've devised on your own: Have this attitude which is in Jesus Christ, who is in the form of God but doesn't consider equality with God something to be grasped, but instead empties himself…………………… Go on.  How does it end?

Mike,

I did make changes to the words from NASB in order to account for the verb forms as existing in the Greek language.  Some of those changes were influenced by the interlinear’s choice of words.  I also linked you to the source that gave me what insight I had into those verb forms.

I believe this is the correct translation using English equivalents for the verbs.

Be like Jesus Christ in your attitude, who being in the form of God, does not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but empties himself,  having taken the form of a bond-servant, having been made in the likeness of mankind.

I placed the evidence before you in order to be tested. If you find an error in it then please let me know, but as it sits without your private interpretation Philippians 2:5-7 does not support your claim of a preexistent person.   Our conversation has also drifted away from who or what the word is in John 1:1 except for the branch discussing the form of God.

[NickHassan]

Quote (abe @ Mar. 16 2012,15:40)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,18:41) Don’t you understand how the unbelieving Jews in John 8:37-42 are both the descendents of Abraham as of the body and the children of Satan as of the spirit? Hi Kerwin, Jn.8:37     I ( Jesus )   know you are the seed of Abraham; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you. Gal.3:16  will tell you exactly who the seed of Abraham is   Christ. Strongs number is #4690 it is used 46 times 7- children 1 used for conceive 4-descendant 16- descendants 1- posterity 10- seed 4- seeds The Trinitarian scholars try to hide a fact of their theology. That God promised himself that he would send him himself. God promised the Son of God that he would send him the Holy Spirit.

Yes Abe ,
The Spirit of the prophets is the Spirit of Christ.
1Peter 1

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2012,10:56)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2012,20:41) Pierre, As you surmised I was using Son to mean Firstborn descendent of David.  Your conception of Jesus being 100% the descendent of David as of the body and 100% the son of God as of the body is flawed as its ads up to 200% and the total can only be 100% Don’t you understand how the unbelieving Jews in John 8:37-42 are both the descendents of Abraham as of the body and the children of Satan as of the spirit? If you understand that then you understand how Jesus is both a descendent of David as of the flesh and a child of God as of the Spirit. You certainly appear to understand that since you wrote “BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS”. I agree that he was formed in his mother’s womb as is common to mankind even though he was miraculously conceived.  I also agree that he was resurrected by the power of God.   Being a child of God by default makes anyone the Word as God speaks, acts, and thinks through them.   Jesus is the preeminent of them because he has been appointed king of all of them Kerwin We're do you pick up those things I never say that I even believe that Jesus was 100% from David  how could it be his father his God, You must be confused with edj

Pierre,

Are you claiming Jesus is not the descendent of David as of the body?

Did you understand how the unbelieving Jews were the children of Satan? If so then please share that revelation with us. Thank you.

[kerwin]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2012,09:38)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2012,03:36) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,12:39) Mike, I figured that would be clear to those with spiritual understanding as they know that Jesus is still a servant in the form of God's Spirit and the likeness of mankind's body. Jesus became a spirit, Kerwin.  He is no longer in mankind's body, for one thing.  Read Gal 1:1 and 11.  Paul didn't receive his gospel from ANY MAN, but from Jesus and God. But this is the wrong thread for that discussion.  I have a thread called “Is Jesus still a man in heaven” if you want to put your two cents in. Secondly, anyone who claims you must “have spirit” to understand this or that is someone who is claiming unscriptural things.  The Trinitarians make this same claim all the time – “The spirit must show you about the Trinity Godhead“. Nick also uses it all the time.  But it translates into “The scriptures don't actually teach the doctrine I'm preaching, so I must pretend that some spirit told me this doctrine.  And I will just tell those who don't believe my made up doctrine that it is because they don't have spiritual understanding.“ (For a recent example of this, look a couple of posts back in this thread, Kerwin.  You'll see Nick's post where he tries to rationalize the fact that he knows his doctrine doesn't make scriptural sense by saying, in effect, “Man's brain cannot comprehend it.”   ) Mike, I hear you.  See my Mar. 16 2012,08:41 post to Pierre which ties Jesus being the Son of God's spirit back with John's teaching in John 1.

Jammin,

Abe quoted:

Jn.8:37     I ( Jesus )   know you are the seed of Abraham; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you.

my question:

Do you believe the Word has a place in Jesus?

[kerwin]

Quote (abe @ Mar. 16 2012,10:40)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,18:41) Don’t you understand how the unbelieving Jews in John 8:37-42 are both the descendents of Abraham as of the body and the children of Satan as of the spirit? Hi Kerwin, Jn.8:37     I ( Jesus )   know you are the seed of Abraham; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you. Gal.3:16  will tell you exactly who the seed of Abraham is   Christ. Strongs number is #4690 it is used 46 times 7- children 1 used for conceive 4-descendant 16- descendants 1- posterity 10- seed 4- seeds The Trinitarian scholars try to hide a fact of their theology. That God promised himself that he would send him himself. God promised the Son of God that he would send him the Holy Spirit.

Abe,

I hear your words.

[Author]

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