JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 13 2012,23:50)

Hi Jammin,       the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)       compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18) The Word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:28) 1Pet.1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by “The Word” of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Of his own will begat he us with “The Word” of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18) God bless Ed J

Hi Jammin,

I guess the answer to your thread escapes you then, huh? (1Cor.2:11-14)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 14 2012,10:09)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 14 2012,21:43) Mike, Quote 1.  Does Phil 2 teach that Jesus was existing in the form of God?  YES or NO? The answer is no.  The reason is the Greek verb is a present participle active and you are using the past tense.  So the teaching is be like minded with Christ; who is presently and will continually be in the form of God, therefore does not consider being equal to God something to be grasped.   Quote Does Phil 2 teach that Jesus then emptied himself of this existence?  YES or NO? Obviously not since he is presently and will be continually in it.   That is another no. Quote 3.  Does Phil 2 teach that Jesus was then made into the likeness of a human being?  YES or NO? I am not sure of that one since I have more to learn about the underlying Greek. Quote Then, weeks later when you returned, you didn't even bother to go to that site. I went to the hospital and was aproaching death for a time.  I survived thanks to the glory of God.   I am not really sure what occured in those last days as I was off my feed and periodically carrying a high fever. Sorry for the inconvenience that caused. kerwin are you sure of your answers Phil 2:1 If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, Phil 2:2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. Phil 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Phil 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Phil 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, Phil 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Phil 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. I would check it

Pierre,

I am sure of what I stated I was sure of but not those things I stated I was not.

These words are all one sentence according to your translation.

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

According to the underling Greek “attitude should be”, “being”, and part of “equality” are all present tense.  The rest of the verbs are aorists.

So what I know is that we are instructed to currently be like minded with Christ who currently has the form of God and currently doesn't consider equality with God something to be grasped.  This tells me he did not empty himself of being in the form of God when he took on the form of a servant and was found in the likeness of mankind.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
So the Word self emptied of autonomy and authority being led by God in the vessel of Jesus.
God's image as an obedient servant yet ever one with God in the Spirit.
God then gave Jesus Christ all authority under Him.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,12:31)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 14 2012,10:09) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 14 2012,21:43) Mike, Quote 1.  Does Phil 2 teach that Jesus was existing in the form of God?  YES or NO? The answer is no.  The reason is the Greek verb is a present participle active and you are using the past tense.  So the teaching is be like minded with Christ; who is presently and will continually be in the form of God, therefore does not consider being equal to God something to be grasped.   Quote Does Phil 2 teach that Jesus then emptied himself of this existence?  YES or NO? Obviously not since he is presently and will be continually in it.   That is another no. Quote 3.  Does Phil 2 teach that Jesus was then made into the likeness of a human being?  YES or NO? I am not sure of that one since I have more to learn about the underlying Greek. Quote Then, weeks later when you returned, you didn't even bother to go to that site. I went to the hospital and was aproaching death for a time.  I survived thanks to the glory of God.   I am not really sure what occured in those last days as I was off my feed and periodically carrying a high fever. Sorry for the inconvenience that caused. kerwin are you sure of your answers Phil 2:1 If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, Phil 2:2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. Phil 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Phil 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Phil 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, Phil 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Phil 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. I would check it Pierre, I am sure of what I stated I was sure of but not those things I stated I was not. These words are all one sentence according to your translation. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. According to the underling Greek “attitude should be”, “being”, and part of “equality” are all present tense.  The rest of the verbs are aorists. So what I know is that we are instructed to currently be like minded with Christ who currently has the form of God and currently doesn't consider equality with God something to be grasped.  This tells me he did not empty himself of being in the form of God when he took on the form of a servant and was found in the likeness of mankind.

Kerwin

Quote

This tells me he did not empty himself of being in the form of God when he took on the form of a servant and was found in the likeness of mankind.

so he was not a man

what was he ?? and if he did not empty himself then he did not exist neither prior to his coming as Jesus

and so Paul himself lied in Colossians 1 ;14-18 right

and John also in John 1;1-18 this is a lie right ??

Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

and also Jesus lied to us in John 3;13;

so in other words you are now telling that he Paul did not use Jesus Christ has a example of humility because he did not know what he was talking about I mean Paul ,the apostle,right

so your conclusion establish clearly that either God as no written word
or men are just try to make one written word and so God is dead ?

Quote

According to the underling Greek “attitude should be”, “being”, and part of “equality” are all present tense. The rest of the verbs are aorists.

and so Paul was talking of Christ in a present tense but Jesus action were already dead for about 30 years ,tell me how could it be possible that Paul would talk in the present tense of a past event ,??????

so how would you written your version o that verse ??

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,05:31)

Pierre, I am sure of what I stated I was sure of but not those things I stated I was not. These words are all one sentence according to your translation. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. According to the underling Greek “attitude should be”, “being”, and part of “equality” are all present tense.  The rest of the verbs are aorists. So what I know is that we are instructed to currently be like minded with Christ who currently has the form of God and currently doesn't consider equality with God something to be grasped.  This tells me he did not empty himself of being in the form of God when he took on the form of a servant and was found in the likeness of mankind.

Hi Kerwin,

It would help you to understand the verse if the Greek
was translated correctly; here is what the verse actually says…

Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
The KJV version is so obtuse and bizzare.
It seems to reverse the meaning in modern prose.

[Ed J]

Hi Nick,

That “IS” what the verse actually says.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Nick,

Philippians 2:5-6 τοῦτο φρονεῖτε ἐν ὑμῖν ὃ καὶ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ, ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ

Let this mind be among you, that was in Jesus Christ: who existed in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

The King James translators did a good job!

Phil 2:5-6 (AKJV Bible) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,06:58)

Hi Nick, That “IS” what the verse actually says. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi ED,
From the majority text manuscripts -into old style english?

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2012,06:35)

Hi ED, The KJV version is so obtuse and bizzare. It seems to reverse the meaning in modern prose.

Hi Nick,

Why do you got your mind made up,
that the “AKJV  Bible” is(?) faulty?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,14:34)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2012,06:35) Hi ED, The KJV version is so obtuse and bizzare. It seems to reverse the meaning in modern prose. Hi Nick, Why do you got your mind made up, that the “AKJV  Bible” is(?) faulty? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

if you stay with only one version you will not have all the truth ,

the same way if you never question your own religion you would never know if what they teach is the truth

so your way of thinking is like a daily dose of arsenic

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 15 2012,08:00)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,14:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2012,06:35) Hi ED, The KJV version is so obtuse and bizzare. It seems to reverse the meaning in modern prose. Hi Nick, Why do you got your mind made up, that the “AKJV  Bible” is(?) faulty? God bless Ed J edj if you stay with only one version you will not have all the truth , the same way if you never question your own religion you would never know if what they teach is the truth so your way of thinking is like a daily dose of arsenic

PIERRE,

I go back to the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts,
not to mans biased so called modern versions.

Perhaps that is all YOU can do,
is put your trust in man?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2012,21:15)

Hi MB, No-Christ Jesus No-Christ Jesus No-Christ Jesus. Please be more disciplined and seek accuracy.

Oh. So the Word had the name “Jesus” even before it “merged with” Jesus of Nazareth?

Be more disciplined, Nick.

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,01:22)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,05:31) Pierre, I am sure of what I stated I was sure of but not those things I stated I was not. These words are all one sentence according to your translation. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. According to the underling Greek “attitude should be”, “being”, and part of “equality” are all present tense.  The rest of the verbs are aorists. So what I know is that we are instructed to currently be like minded with Christ who currently has the form of God and currently doesn't consider equality with God something to be grasped.  This tells me he did not empty himself of being in the form of God when he took on the form of a servant and was found in the likeness of mankind. Hi Kerwin, It would help you to understand the verse if the Greek was translated correctly; here is what the verse actually says… Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Your brother in Christ, Jesus. Ed J (Joshua 22:34) holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J.

It appears translators had difficulties with very basic language concepts.

The King James translates the Greek into a longer sentence than Pierre's choice.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

The words “thought it not robbery to be equal with God:” looks hokey though it may have been fine for the time it was translated. Others disagree on sentence structure of the words and I know too little of the Greek to say which is the correct translation. I favor the one that is more consistent with what Scripture elsewhere tells me.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,15:27)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 15 2012,08:00) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,14:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2012,06:35) Hi ED, The KJV version is so obtuse and bizzare. It seems to reverse the meaning in modern prose. Hi Nick, Why do you got your mind made up, that the “AKJV  Bible” is(?) faulty? God bless Ed J edj if you stay with only one version you will not have all the truth , the same way if you never question your own religion you would never know if what they teach is the truth so your way of thinking is like a daily dose of arsenic PIERRE, I go back to the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, not to mans biased so called modern versions. Perhaps that is all YOU can do, is put your trust in man? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

you are confirm what i say;

some words in Hebrew or Greek have more than one meaning this is were the translators or interpreters even you are use it to your advantage,so ????????

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,08:42)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,01:22) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2012,05:31) Pierre, I am sure of what I stated I was sure of but not those things I stated I was not. These words are all one sentence according to your translation. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. According to the underling Greek “attitude should be”, “being”, and part of “equality” are all present tense.  The rest of the verbs are aorists. So what I know is that we are instructed to currently be like minded with Christ who currently has the form of God and currently doesn't consider equality with God something to be grasped.  This tells me he did not empty himself of being in the form of God when he took on the form of a servant and was found in the likeness of mankind. Hi Kerwin, It would help you to understand the verse if the Greek was translated correctly; here is what the verse actually says… Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Ed J Ed J. It appears translators had difficulties with very basic language concepts. The King James translates the Greek into a longer sentence than Pierre's choice. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. The words “thought it not robbery to be equal with God:” looks hokey though it may have been fine for the time it was translated.    Others disagree on sentence structure of the words and I know too little of the Greek to say which is the correct translation.  I favor the one that is more consistent with what Scripture elsewhere tells me.

Hi Kerwin,

Which is what exactly?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 15 2012,08:51)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,15:27) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 15 2012,08:00) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,14:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2012,06:35) Hi ED, The KJV version is so obtuse and bizzare. It seems to reverse the meaning in modern prose. Hi Nick, Why do you got your mind made up, that the “AKJV  Bible” is(?) faulty? God bless Ed J edj if you stay with only one version you will not have all the truth , the same way if you never question your own religion you would never know if what they teach is the truth so your way of thinking is like a daily dose of arsenic PIERRE, I go back to the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, not to mans biased so called modern versions. Perhaps that is all YOU can do, is put your trust in man? God bless Ed J edj you are confirm what i say; some words in Hebrew or Greek have more than one meaning this is were the translators or interpreters even you are use it to your advantage,so ????????

PIERRE,

Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people.

1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic),
or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate].

Try to stay away from mans biased opinions, God has protected his word, Pierre.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 13 2012,21:43)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 1.  Does Phil 2 teach that Jesus was existing in the form of God?  YES or NO? The answer is no.  The reason is the Greek verb is a present participle active and you are using the past tense.

Hmmmm…………..  So there's no possibility that it is an historical present?  Let's find out.

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 13 2012,21:43)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Does Phil 2 teach that Jesus then emptied himself of this existence?  YES or NO? Obviously not since he is presently and will be continually in it.   That is another no.

Hmmm…………..  I'm almost afraid to ask, but what do YOU suppose verse 7 is talking about then?  The Greek words refer to “emptying himself” or “making himself of no account”.  It is in the aorist tense, which is almost always translated into English as a simple past tense.  In fact, all of the following phrases are in the Greek aorist tense:

………did not consider equality with God…………..

……but emptied himself………

………..and took upon him the form of a servant…………

…………and was made into the likeness of a human being……….

………and being found as a man………..

……….he humbled himself………..

……….and became obedient unto death………..

Kerwin, what you are doing is equivalent to what the Trinitarians do with John 8:58.  The Trinitarian scholars are well aware of the idioms associated with translating Greek into English.  They are well aware that the present tense of “I am” in 8:58 should be translated as “I have been”, just like all of them translate the same present tense “I am” in John 14:9.  The Greek words in 14:9 are the present tense “I am with you”.  But, being aware of the idioms, the Trinitarian scholars translate as “I have been with you”.  As Greek expert Jason BeDuhn comments, “The majority of translations recognize these idiomatic uses of ‘I am’, and properly integrate the words into the context of the passages where they appear.  Yet when it comes to 8:58, they suddenly forget how to translate.”

You are attempting to do the same thing here.  You are willing to throw the entire context of the passage out the window because of a present tense “loophole” you've found.  

So let's look at your “present tense” understanding.  You assert that verse 6 teaches that Jesus IS NOW in the form of God?

So then does verse 7 teach us that Jesus WILL BE emptying himself and WILL BE made into a human being?  Because verse 8 is going to cause you some trouble if that is your understanding.  (Unless of course you think Jesus WILL BE dying on a cross for us someday in the future.)

Start with your present tense “IS NOW in the form of God”, and convey to me what the next two verses are telling you.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,15:58)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 15 2012,08:51) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,15:27) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 15 2012,08:00) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,14:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2012,06:35) Hi ED, The KJV version is so obtuse and bizzare. It seems to reverse the meaning in modern prose. Hi Nick, Why do you got your mind made up, that the “AKJV  Bible” is(?) faulty? God bless Ed J edj if you stay with only one version you will not have all the truth , the same way if you never question your own religion you would never know if what they teach is the truth so your way of thinking is like a daily dose of arsenic PIERRE, I go back to the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, not to mans biased so called modern versions. Perhaps that is all YOU can do, is put your trust in man? God bless Ed J edj you are confirm what i say; some words in Hebrew or Greek have more than one meaning this is were the translators or interpreters even you are use it to your advantage,so ???????? PIERRE, Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever. Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people. 1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic), or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate]. Try to stay away from mans biased opinions, God has protected his word, Pierre. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

your words are like arsenic

we were not talking about the written meaning but about the way they are translated

so ?????

[Ed J]

PIERRE,

There is no we in disagreement. (Am.3:3)
YOU are talking about what YOU are talking about.
And “I” will continue to talk about what God is talking about!

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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