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It is true that my use of the word trinity is in error if trinity means 3 equal, because as you say, that is not my belief. Having said that, I do believe in the oneness of the three.
I do not agree with you my friend, that the Holy Spirit and the father are one and the same. I have spent considerable time searching the Scripture and have asked the Lord, and all that I have seen/heard still points to the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of God, but He is not the Father of Jesus. He is Himself, a third part of God.
Blessings
Quote (Guest @ Oct. 08 2003,14:11) Foot Note from the Greatest Hebrew to English Translation ever..;o)
From (The Book Of Yahweh The Holy Scriptures)
Yahchanan ( Hebrew which means Yahweh is Merciful )
English John 1:1-5
1: In the beginning was the PLAN of Yahweh and the PLAN was with Yahweh, and the PLAN was Yahweh's.
2: The same PLAN was in the beginning with Yahweh.
3: All things were done according to it, and without it
nothing was done , that was done.
4: In this PLAN was life, and that life was the light to mankind.
5: Now that light shines in the darkness, but the darkness does not take hold of it.PLAN: Translated from the Greek LOGOS- meaning something said including the thoughts; by implication: a topic or subject of set discourse; also reasoning with the mental faculties, and motive. Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Page 380-382. This Greek word LOGOS shows to be itself the Greek translation of the ORIGINAL Hebrew word DABAR, which means: Yahweh's revealed will….His WHOLE PLAN and purpose for mankind. Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Volume 4, Page 870-871.
To view this page of the Scriptures go to
Iyyob
You are quite correct in your post. It is even more simple then that. Those who claim the Logos is a person ie:Jesus take a few scriptures where the term Logos is used and give them a completely different meaning then the other 500 times it is used in scripture. This is contrary to the most elementary principles of Bible Study. Instead of line upon line and precept upon precept, they pull scriptues out of context and twist them out of scripture to support a doctrine.
The term logos can be translated as plan, intention, statement or speach.Quote (martian @ May 04 2007,14:13) You are quite correct in your post. It is even more simple then that. Those who claim the Logos is a person ie:Jesus take a few scriptures where the term Logos is used and give them a completely different meaning then the other 500 times it is used in scripture. This is contrary to the most elementary principles of Bible Study. Instead of line upon line and precept upon precept, they pull scriptues out of context and twist them out of scripture to support a doctrine.
The term logos can be translated as plan, intention, statement or speach.
I have to disagree. The lord gave me revelation of this quite some years ago and then took me into Scripture to show me what He was talking about. He showed me that Jesus is the logos and Him alone, as shown on my page http://www.all4god.net/word_of_god.htmI have heard many people argue against this revelation to the point that I doubted it myself, but when I went back to the Lord He showed me new revelation from Scripture that backed up what He first showed me.
This has happened a number of times over the years, but my experience is that Jesus is glorified in the Scriptures. The Scriptures make a lot more sense, and God is glorified.
Nowhere in Scripture is Scripture called the Word of God, yet people insist on calling it that.
My relationship with God has been remarkable since He taught me that Jesus is, was and always will be the logos. There is no other.
Blessings
Quote (Oxy @ May 04 2007,12:28) It is true that my use of the word trinity is in error if trinity means 3 equal, because as you say, that is not my belief. Having said that, I do believe in the oneness of the three. I do not agree with you my friend, that the Holy Spirit and the father are one and the same. I have spent considerable time searching the Scripture and have asked the Lord, and all that I have seen/heard still points to the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of God, but He is not the Father of Jesus. He is Himself, a third part of God.
Blessings
God is a Spirit who has a spirit with no name? Take a part that doesn't belong in the puzzel then trim it to fit but it still doesn't fit correctly, no more than changing the Sabbath day. All are from the Harlot.
So Oxy their are TWO Spirits? God is a Spirit and He has a Spirit Yet His Word tells us there is one Spirit.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Luk 12:10 And every one who shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
You can blaspheme the Son of Man but not what is in the Son of Man~God~the Spirit that's what God is a Spirit. There is only one Spirit the Holy Spirit and that Spirit is God.
If you blaspheme the Holy Spirit you blaspheme GOD! You blaspheme both Father and Son.Is the Son above the Spirit? Jesus didn't think so!
So the Father is greater than the Son and the Father is greater than Himself?
? You are correct my friend. God is Spirit. So also is the Holy Spirit a spirit. Also, my understanding is that the Word of God was spirit before He was born man.
I do think you are being a little silly though.. admit it Kenrch.
Quote (Oxy @ May 05 2007,08:59) You are correct my friend. God is Spirit. So also is the Holy Spirit a spirit. Also, my understanding is that the Word of God was spirit before He was born man. I do think you are being a little silly though.. admit it Kenrch.
Don't archangels have names. Wouldn't that imply that ALL angels (spirit beings) have names except the Holy Spirit of course
You ever hear of Michael or Gabriel
Seems like everyone has a name but the poor third person
Oxy if want to continue to keep the harlot's doctrine then by all means you have a choice but the Spirit tried to tell you about that false doctrine but you couldn't let go so you changed it but it is still the harlot's doctrine doctored up.
IHN&L,
Ken
Quote (kenrch @ May 05 2007,16:50) Quote (Oxy @ May 05 2007,08:59) You are correct my friend. God is Spirit. So also is the Holy Spirit a spirit. Also, my understanding is that the Word of God was spirit before He was born man. I do think you are being a little silly though.. admit it Kenrch.
Don't archangels have names. Wouldn't that imply that ALL angels (spirit beings) have names except the Holy Spirit of course You ever hear of Michael or Gabriel
Seems like everyone has a name but the poor third person
Oxy if want to continue to keep the harlot's doctrine then by all means you have a choice but the Spirit tried to tell you about that false doctrine but you couldn't let go so you changed it but it is still the harlot's doctrine doctored up.
IHN&L,
Ken
Ken, I don't like your attitudemy friend. Just because we don't agree on a point doesn't mean you can start making nasty allegations.Are you implying the Word of God was an archangel? Please back that one up with Scripture!
Quote (Oxy @ May 05 2007,18:09) Quote (kenrch @ May 05 2007,16:50) Quote (Oxy @ May 05 2007,08:59) You are correct my friend. God is Spirit. So also is the Holy Spirit a spirit. Also, my understanding is that the Word of God was spirit before He was born man. I do think you are being a little silly though.. admit it Kenrch.
Don't archangels have names. Wouldn't that imply that ALL angels (spirit beings) have names except the Holy Spirit of course You ever hear of Michael or Gabriel
Seems like everyone has a name but the poor third person
Oxy if want to continue to keep the harlot's doctrine then by all means you have a choice but the Spirit tried to tell you about that false doctrine but you couldn't let go so you changed it but it is still the harlot's doctrine doctored up.
IHN&L,
Ken
Ken, I don't like your attitudemy friend. Just because we don't agree on a point doesn't mean you can start making nasty allegations.Are you implying the Word of God was an archangel? Please back that one up with Scripture!
My point Oxy was that even angels who are spirit beings have names. Even before Jesus was the WORD. Your third person has NO NAME.Michael, Gabriel and I'm sure ALL spirit beings (angels ) have names everyone but the third person!
Don't you think your being a little silly!
The facts are the facts and the fact is that the Trinity was instituted by Constantine in the 3rd century.
You even know the Trinty is wrong so you changed the definition just slightly that you may keep your Harlot tradition.
Come out of her Oxy Rev. 18:4
IHN&L,
Ken
BTW if you find the Truth harsh I'm sorry
Quote (Oxy @ May 05 2007,08:59) You are correct my friend. God is Spirit. So also is the Holy Spirit a spirit. Also, my understanding is that the Word of God was spirit before He was born man. I do think you are being a little silly though.. admit it Kenrch.
Hi Oxy,
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not another person.Quote (kenrch @ May 06 2007,00:32) My point Oxy was that even angels who are spirit beings have names. Even before Jesus was the WORD. Your third person has NO NAME. Michael, Gabriel and I'm sure ALL spirit beings (angels ) have names everyone but the third person!
Don't you think your being a little silly!
The facts are the facts and the fact is that the Trinity was instituted by Constantine in the 3rd century.
You even know the Trinty is wrong so you changed the definition just slightly that you may keep your Harlot tradition.
Come out of her Oxy Rev. 18:4
IHN&L,
Ken
BTW if you find the Truth harsh I'm sorry
Ken, you say even before Jesus was the Word? The Word was in the beginning. There was no before!I do not like your perception of the truth Ken and I like your attitude even less.
Because you have an obsession with names, it doesn't mean you can rewrite Scripture.
Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as “He” and also spoke of His Father seperately. Was Jesus confused?
Hi Oxy,
Inference alone is just speculation.
To teach about God from it rather than what is said about God is unwiseQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2007,07:16) Hi Oxy,
Inference alone is just speculation.
To teach about God from it rather than what is said about God is unwise
The question I have for you Nick, is that you seem to think it ok to deny the person of the Holy Spirit, even though Jesus repeatedly refers to Him as “He”, yet you criticise me for believing what the Scriptures say. How come?Hi Oxy,
Did Jesus say the Holy Spirit was another person?What he did say was
Lk 4
“18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, “Was he saying he was anointed WITH another person?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2007,07:57) Hi Oxy,
Did Jesus say the Holy Spirit was another person?What he did say was
Lk 4
“18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, “Was he saying he was anointed WITH another person?
The Holy Spirit was seen to descend upon Jesus:Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
Was it the Father that came upon Him? No, the Father spoke from Heaven saying:
Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.These are two consecutive verses. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus and the father spoke from Heaven.
Hi Oxy,
Is the Holy Spirit a dove?
“18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, “The Spirit is the Spirit of the Lord God Who has anointed Christ for ministry.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2007,08:48) Hi Oxy,
Is the Holy Spirit a dove?
“18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, “The Spirit is the Spirit of the Lord God Who has anointed Christ for ministry.
Is the Holy Spirit a dove? Doesn't that fall into the silly question category?It is written in Scripture that “the Spirit of God descending like a dove”
Quote (Oxy @ May 06 2007,08:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2007,07:57) Hi Oxy,
Did Jesus say the Holy Spirit was another person?What he did say was
Lk 4
“18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, “Was he saying he was anointed WITH another person?
The Holy Spirit was seen to descend upon Jesus:Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
Was it the Father that came upon Him? No, the Father spoke from Heaven saying:
Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.These are two consecutive verses. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus and the father spoke from Heaven.
Hi Oxy,
Possibly only Jesus and John the baptist saw the dove.
Matthew 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mark 1:10
And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Luke 3:22
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
John 1:32
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.You agreed that the Spirit IS NOT a dove but that what was seen was for the eyes of men just as the fire seen at Pentecost was confirming the work of God sending the Spirit.
Quote (Oxy @ May 06 2007,07:14) Quote (kenrch @ May 06 2007,00:32) My point Oxy was that even angels who are spirit beings have names. Even before Jesus was the WORD. Your third person has NO NAME. Michael, Gabriel and I'm sure ALL spirit beings (angels ) have names everyone but the third person!
Don't you think your being a little silly!
The facts are the facts and the fact is that the Trinity was instituted by Constantine in the 3rd century.
You even know the Trinty is wrong so you changed the definition just slightly that you may keep your Harlot tradition.
Come out of her Oxy Rev. 18:4
IHN&L,
Ken
BTW if you find the Truth harsh I'm sorry
Ken, you say even before Jesus was the Word? The Word was in the beginning. There was no before!I do not like your perception of the truth Ken and I like your attitude even less.
Because you have an obsession with names, it doesn't mean you can rewrite Scripture.
Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as “He” and also spoke of His Father seperately. Was Jesus confused?
No Oxy Jesus wasn't confused He knew that He had the Spirit of Jehovah. He knew that when the Holy Spirit filled Him with Joy that it was the Father.Luk 10:21 In that hour the Holy Spirit filled Jesus with joy. Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for hiding these things from wise and intelligent people and revealing them to little children. Yes, Father, this is what pleased you.
It is you my friend that is confused. You think that the Father IF HE HAD another PERSON other than His Son He would not give that person a name?! Every being ever created has a name! You DISHONOR the Holy Spirit by saying he has no name. Even my dog has a name!
It is amazing how blind you pretend to be in order to keep your “new” tradition which isn't new at all. A child of the Harlot. Sorry but that's what you do you keep and defend her doctrines. When the Holy Spirit tells you “HIS” name let me know. Oh! He doesn't have one that's right! Sad very sad that the harlot has even stolen your common sense.
IHN,
Ken
The way I learn was the Mind thought and plan of God.
As per
Romans 4:17
17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead,
and calleth those things which be not as though they were.1 Peter 1:19-20
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained (foreknown, destined) before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times,for youRevelation 13:8 (KJV)
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.If we apply the logic of a literal preexistence of Christ to this verse we would have to conclude that Christ was slain upon the cross long before Creation…
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