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Quote (Oxy @ June 20 2010,14:38) When I read the Bible I do not “hear” it, I read it.
Hi Oxy,Then explain why these verse are in the bible?
Rev.2:7, Rev.2:11, Rev.2:17, Rev.2:29, Rev.3:6, Rev.3:13 & Rev.3:22Quote (Oxy @ June 20 2010,14:38) This is what the Bible says about the Word of God: Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Note the words living, powerful, discerner. This is not talking about the Bible, this clearly shows that the Word is living, which the Bible is not. The Bible is a book and is not alive, is not powerful and cannot discern. The only life the Bible has is the revelation the Spirit brings through the Scriptures, but the Bible has not life in itself.
Hi Oxy,Then why do you have trouble understanding what I said Here? <– Fifth Post down
Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,16:52) Quote (Oxy @ June 20 2010,14:38) When I read the Bible I do not “hear” it, I read it.
Hi Oxy,Then explain why these verse are in the bible?
Rev.2:7, Rev.2:11, Rev.2:17, Rev.2:29, Rev.3:6, Rev.3:13 & Rev.3:22
Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.Rev 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
Rev 2:29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
There is a difference between hearing what the Spirit is saying and reading the Scriptures. One is hearing, the other reading.
Because what the Spirit said was being quoted it was reasonable to say what was said.
Oxy………Why did Jesus say the words i am telling you are (NOT) Mine if He was the (WORD) of GOD and GOD Himself? Why did Jesus say he could do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF., And said the FATHER (IN) Him HE DOTH the WORKS> Don't you have to shove a lot of Scriptures asidt even scriptures Jesus said , in prayer ” FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. What do you make of all this?
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 20 2010,16:58) Oxy………Why did Jesus say the words i am telling you are (NOT) Mine if He was the (WORD) of GOD and GOD Himself? Why did Jesus say he could do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF., And said the FATHER (IN) Him HE DOTH the WORKS> Don't you have to shove a lot of Scriptures asidt even scriptures Jesus said , in prayer ” FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. What do you make of all this? peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Gene, I feel like I'm going round in circles. In a number of my previous posts I have pointed out the answer to your question.The Almighty God became the Father when Jesus was born.
The Word, which proceeded from God, and was with God and was God became flesh and was called Jesus. He has since been restored to His former glory.Joh 15:26 And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.
Oxy……….I can't find where you answered them. Maybe you did guise i just did not see it brother.
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Perhaps if you can show me a verse that says “Scripture is the Word of God” we can put this to rest, but as I said before, my Bible tells me that the Word was made flesh.. and there's no flesh on my Bible
Quote (Oxy @ June 20 2010,18:01) Perhaps if you can show me a verse that says “Scripture is the Word of God” we can put this to rest, but as I said before, my Bible tells me that the Word was made flesh.. and there's no flesh on my Bible
Hi Oxy,2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God “spake” as they were moved by the HolySpirit.
2Tm.3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:
and “The word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs)Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,20:17) Quote (Oxy @ June 20 2010,18:01) Perhaps if you can show me a verse that says “Scripture is the Word of God” we can put this to rest, but as I said before, my Bible tells me that the Word was made flesh.. and there's no flesh on my Bible
Hi Oxy,2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God “spake” as they were moved by the HolySpirit.
2Tm.3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:
and “The word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs)
2 Peter 1:21 does not say the Bible is the Word.2 Tim 3:16 does not say the Bible is the Word.
John 14:24 does not say the Bible is the Word. It talks about keeping the words and saying Jesus spoke.
Hi Oxy,
Folks often claim that they are guided by the voice of God and perhaps some are.
We are warned to test the spirits.
But the Spirit reminds us of the words of Jesus and we know them from what is written.Quote (Oxy @ June 20 2010,19:45) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,20:17) Quote (Oxy @ June 20 2010,18:01) Perhaps if you can show me a verse that says “Scripture is the Word of God” we can put this to rest, but as I said before, my Bible tells me that the Word was made flesh.. and there's no flesh on my Bible
Hi Oxy,2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God “spake” as they were moved by the HolySpirit.
2Tm.3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings:
and “The word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs)
2 Peter 1:21 does not say the Bible is the Word.2 Tim 3:16 does not say the Bible is the Word.
John 14:24 does not say the Bible is the Word. It talks about keeping the words and saying Jesus spoke.
Hi Oxy,You remind me how Gene says there is no free will in the bible.
Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave “The word”: great was the company of those that published it.Hi Oxy,
You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about me. And you are unwilling to come to me to have life[jn5]
The Israelites had the precious words but analysed them with their minds rather than taking them into their hearts as food.
We can have the Author to help us know God and His words in the OT and the NT.
We have less excuse. Those to whom much has been given…To all: Any and all words written or spoken that bear the fruit of God are always building up, calming, peaceful, loving, creative, forgiving, et.al.! God's words are Spirit and life. Whether written or spoken they heal and create life, love and goodness. Any person that chooses to learn from the Bible should realize that whatever you are searching for is there for you to find. If you have been taught or told that God is a harsh God and kills and destroys, that is what you will find in the old testament. If someone says satan is the god of this world then to that person evil rules his life. Satan is a lie and certainly not a god of this world for me. Always look for the good news of God. If you follow Jesus, his revelation of God is love. If you read the NT first four gospels you will find good news for mankind with a loving God for those who accept and believe their purification through Christ. Those who remain in a sin consciousness believing they are in sin will recieve the reward of a sinner. Sickness and death will be their reward. Just believe in life and live in God. God bless all, TK
Nick,
No and yes.
No: All human being are born into a sinful state (Sinful man cannot create sinless man – that's why Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit – The Life/Mind Force from the Spirit but the Flesh/Dust body from Mary)
Yes: “Innocent” of Sin – but even infants will be judged on the last day – They will be given the chance to believe or not and judged according ly – Just as any others who are 'innocent' of the knowledge of God (And that is why Jesus was taken by the Holy to Preach to the Dead of Noah's days).
In any case, Why you not answer my questions to RM, first?
Oxy………A Word is simply a WORD rather written or spoken , it is simply communicating (INTELLIGENCE) TO US, It is spirit, Jesus said the Words i am telling you (are) Spirit and life. Words a expressions of ones thoughts and the words of GOD express GOD'S thoughts , just like your words express your thoughts. Your words represent you because they come from your mind they are who you are, “SO A MAN THINKS SO HE IS”, Jesus said not that which goes into the mouth does not defile Him but that which comes out (his words) that is what defiles the man, because it proceed out from the heart, the same with GOD.
He and His words are one and the same being, just as you and your words are one and the same being. Jesus is (NOT) GOD'S Word, He spoke them to us, being given them by inspiration of GOD'S SPIRIT. Those word can be written down, just like you words can, and if you write your words down is that not your thoughts and is that not the same as you speaking them. A word is simply a means to transfer (intellect) from one being to another. God's words are His thoughts given to us and are transmitted to our minds and take residence there, and begin to germinate in our hearts and minds producing fruits of the spirit in our lives. There is no difference if the words are spoken or written , word still transmit knowledge, rather good or evil rather written or spoken, makes no difference.
To literally think a word (is) flesh is wrong Oxy, a word can (never) become flesh , it can come to be (IN) a flesh person as in the case of Jesus, but could never (BE) flesh. Remember Jesus said the words he spoke were (NOT) his words. We can all speak GOD'S words, and do when we quote them, were then are like Jesus quoting someone else's words, GOD and HIS WORDS are one and the SAME , Just as you and your word are one and the same. IMO
peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………..gene
RM……….JA is right on this one , when you dabble with Mystery religion you really do get confused, dump the Trinitarian garbage completely and you will move away for that muddy water of confusion. Isa 1:18, WJ, JK, will grab any straw they can to support there misunderstandings which only clouds the truth of GOD. Jesus in (NO) WAY IS TRUE GOD, Just as He said He was not (TRUE) GOD. Man when you start down a wrong trail it just keep going. But we all can at anytime with GOD'S help go back to the start and start over. IMO
peace and love…………….gene
JA: Jesus didn't die, he is alive and well! We talk every day and I believe you do too!
In the begining was the word. Jesus said his words are spirit. Jesus said God is spirit. Then Jesus/God/Spirit/life/good are all God.
God formed Adam from the dust of the earth. God breathed into his nostrils, life/spirit! I would call that God/Man!
When a baby takes its first breath of life/God/spirit he is annimated and quickened as a human being. Man and God together. God is our life force. Take away the breath/God/spirit from a man and he dies physically.
It is blasphemy to say the nature of man is sinful! On one hand you say the things one does or how he acts makes him a sinner and on the other hand you say a child who has done no acts of any kind is sinful. These beliefs could only come from a sin consciousness.
If a person has believed Jesus has cleansed him from all sin and he is now the righteousness of God in Christ, then he has been judged by the word of God and has passed from death to life. No further judgement is necessary.
It seems to me that John 1:1 says in the beginning was the word, the word was God.Jesus was the expressed word of God. Jesus was the word/spirit/God/light/truth et.al.!
If a human breathes, he has God in him! And he does not have a sin nature. No animal or human can change their nature. You can dress up a pig but he is still a pig. A human is a human with God in him as his life source or he is not alive. Man having a sin nature is a destructive, man made doctrine. God bless, TK
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2010,01:06) RM……….JA is right on this one , when you dabble with Mystery religion you really do get confused, dump the Trinitarian garbage completely and you will move away for that muddy water of confusion. Isa 1:18, WJ, JK, will grab any straw they can to support there misunderstandings which only clouds the truth of GOD. Jesus in (NO) WAY IS TRUE GOD, Just as He said He was not (TRUE) GOD. Man when you start down a wrong trail it just keep going. But we all can at anytime with GOD'S help go back to the start and start over. IMO peace and love…………….gene
First off, you're not saying anything but condemning…kinda drifting in the direction Nick does with all his post, so there's nothing I can really say to respond to the nothingness your post addressed besides condemnation.secondly, i'll quote JA, and respond to him shortly.
I would like to pull some bible verses to do so…so give me a sec.Quote (JustAskin @ June 20 2010,07:34) RM,
You have presented AN answer. Politicians are experts at providing answers that are not answers but only appear that way.Additionally, You cannot decide that you have answered me.
What you should say us, 'Have I answered you, to your satisfaction?'Then I say, 'yeh', or ,'neh'.
As what did Jesus die, God or Man?
Was Jesus Man or was he God?
There is no such thing as a God-Man.
Not a single word of Scriptures alludes to such a being. Or else show me what the delusional spirit put into your mind to show that…
Besides, what does the Scriptures say about concerning God and His [Manifestation], 'For us there is ONE GOD, the Father, and ONE Lord, the MAN Jesus Christ'
And also, among many others, (Ephesians 4:13), “till we come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a Perfect Man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.”And also, if Jesus did not die, except his flesh died, then what need was there for God raising up his flesh body. After all, even angels can create flesh and bone bodies!
Corinthians 15:45~49, …the last Adam (man created sinless) … The 'heavenly MAN', not 'God'…
And your ocean analogy doesn't hold water…
If Jesus is the cup then and the cup is his physical body…that would mean that his 'cup'/Physical body holds the full ocean seeing that God 'Scooped' up the Holy Spirit into Jesus…'without measure'.
Besides, the whole analogy was jibberish to start with. Which muddy stream did you dredge that up from?1 John 4: 1~… Read it…
You say that Jesus is God…come in the flesh…??
Nowhere in Scriptures does it say that God came in the flesh but yet You say so.GOD came in the flesh (False)
Jesus came in the flesh (True)
Therefore Jesus is God…(False and True = False)Quote As what did Jesus die, God or Man? He died as a man.
Quote There is no such thing as a God-Man. Who are you to say that, if that is what God has established?
If you make a claim like that, support it with verses.Plenty of prophets (sons of God) had died for God, but I don't see any of them atoning for our sins? What makes Jesus different since you AT's want to compare Jesus so much to the ordinary man.
Quote Not a single word of Scriptures alludes to such a being. Or else show me what the delusional spirit put into your mind to show that… Father forgive him for he knows not what he says. Before our Job is done, you will believe in the spirit you're calling delusional.
Quote Besides, what does the Scriptures say about concerning God and His [Manifestation], 'For us there is ONE GOD, the Father, and ONE Lord, the MAN Jesus Christ'
And also, among many others, (Ephesians 4:13), “till we come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a Perfect Man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.”First off, only GOD IS LORD.
Second off,
This post is meaningless in understanding Jesus' identity. It doesn't address it, and his audience weren't looking to understand it. Paul wrote Ephesians for the ephesians…so his concern wasn't proving who Jesus was in that verse. He was simply preaching the Gospel. You need to go to the OT, or places like hebrews to understand who Jesus was. Plus I also have scripture PAUL did write concerning Jesus' identity.Collosians 2
6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
As we see here, Paul in scripture, tells us that in him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Now, i can take YOUR position if it just said…In him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead.
Then that means God was in him.
But when Paul added that bodily at the end, it changes the meaning.
It goes from being > God dwelling in the body.
toGod dwelling in christ physically.
Lets take another look at another piece of scripture to understand what the above means to dwell in christ physically.
————–
Philippians 2
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
So Paul is boldy stating that Christ was in the form of God?
According to you, HOW DARE HE SAY A MAN IS GOD….
but he did =/
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Quote And also, if Jesus did not die, except his flesh died, then what need was there for God raising up his flesh body. After all, even angels can create flesh and bone bodies! Because The sins of The Father are passed down to the child.
The bible doesn't say anything about the sins of The Mother.Well we know Jesus was born of ONLY a mother and his Father being God himself.
So he wasn't heir or born into sin, unto Adam.
He was the only human being to be born free of sin.
He wasn't tied down to the curse.So he technically should have never died physically according to God's law.
But in dying physically, God put the righteous to death in which it was unjust…( but just since Jesus/God willed to die)
So that if the righteous can be condemned and punished, a phenomenonal pathway can be created to allow the wicked to be saved and rewarded.
———-
The whole point was that Jesus wasn't suppose to die physically because he was sinless.The price of sin is death, Jesus never sinned.
So take the focus off the physical aspect and start understanding what is actually going on.
——————-
Quote Corinthians 15:45~49, …the last Adam (man created sinless) … The 'heavenly MAN', not 'God'… Doesn't prove anything, I'
;ve acknowledged he was fully man and fully God. If your going to present something, present something that addresses both, not just one aspect of Jesus.When we see Jesus walking in the street, that only addresses his physical body as a man, when we see him healing someone it addresses his spiritual nature.
So if you're going to present something, present scripture that applies to both…because I agree with the verse you pointed out, but it has no effect on my cause.
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Quote And your ocean analogy doesn't hold water… Lol how doesn't it hold water? I mean I even put a cup in it to hold the water!!! lol
Just kidding… it actually does.
So you're looking at it from the limitations of man.
You need to open your mind to the possibilities of God.
We can see even now that our HUMAN TEMPORARY FINITE BODIES…
ARE HOLDING OUR INIFINITE ETERNAL SOULS.
So yes this one little cup called a body, can hold and inifinite spirit.
Is there anything too great for God to do?
Just cause you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's false.
————–Quote You say that Jesus is God…come in the flesh…??
Nowhere in Scriptures does it say that God came in the flesh but yet You say so.John 1: 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Following the chain of logic.
In the beginning was the word, the word was with god (as a son), the word was God (is God) the word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us (god became man) we beheld his glory as the only begotten of the father ( we witnessed him to be The only begotten son of God) full of grace and truth.
So you're wrong, scripture definately says God became flesh.
————Quote GOD came in the flesh (False)
Jesus came in the flesh (True)
Therefore Jesus is God…(False and True = False)Let me fix that.
GOD came in the flesh (True)
Jesus came in the flesh (True)
Therefore Jesus is God…(True and True = True)
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Have I answered all your questions to your satisfaction? Even if it doesn't matter whether your satisfied or not, because the validity of scripture is not dictated by your position, but that of God's position alone?
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