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Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 19 2009,06:56) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2009,22:54) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 19 2009,17:41) You are correct, and don't see things like these.
Trinitarians can't compare verses for some reason.
Trinitarians also think the image of God is God as if the image of me in the mirror is me. Logical reasoning is not their strong point.
Misrepresentation! Hebrews 1 says that the Son is the express image of God's substance. It means that Christ's being was not derived. The sun's rays are the “exact image” of the sun's substance.The term “express image” or “exact representation” is NEVER used of other men. At best it means the Son is God. In the least it means that Jesus was a unique man.
thinker
Yes Yeshua HaMoshiach was a very unique man.Con…….Trinitarians and Preexistences are of those who have recieved a deluding Spirit sent from GOD, because they recieved not the LOVE of the Truth so GOD sent to them as deluding Spirit (INTELLECT), as stated in 2Ths 2. Jesus plainly said in Prayer “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. They cant even understand those simple seven words, they think (THOU) means myself, and (ONLY) means more then one, three, GO figure. They believe that Jesus created everything, Even though in Issiah God said He (ALONE and BY HIMSELF) created everything and He said He was the (ONLY) GOD and He knew of NO other GOD, but these deluded people reject the truth spoken by GOD himself. They take you on the rabbit trails with every twist and turn that one can possibly imagine.
Quote (Gene @ Dec. 20 2009,02:43) Con…….Trinitarians and Preexistences are of those who have recieved a deluding Spirit sent from GOD, because they recieved not the LOVE of the Truth so GOD sent to them as deluding Spirit (INTELLECT), as stated in 2Ths 2. Jesus plainly said in Prayer “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. They cant even understand those simple seven words, they think (THOU) means myself, and (ONLY) means more then one, three, GO figure. They believe that Jesus created everything, Even though in Issiah God said He (ALONE and BY HIMSELF) created everything and He said He was the (ONLY) GOD and He knew of NO other GOD, but these deluded people reject the truth spoken by GOD himself. They take you on the rabbit trails with every twist and turn that one can possibly imagine.
Gene,
What about the ESV translation of Jude 4-5?“For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.”The ESV is a literal translation of earlier Greek manuscripts. So they carry an authority which cannot be ignored. Those manuscripts say that “Jesus” saved a people out of Egypt. If you're going to say that the earlier Greek manuscripts are wrong then be ready to prove it.
thinker
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2009,06:54) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 19 2009,17:41) You are correct, and don't see things like these.
Trinitarians can't compare verses for some reason.
Trinitarians also think the image of God is God as if the image of me in the mirror is me. Logical reasoning is not their strong point.
KerwinForget the dead image in a mirror.
Jesus is not a dead image of the Father.
When someone looks at you personally they see a living image of you.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth “ye know him, and have seen him“. John 14:7
Jesus didn't say you know about God and have seen Gods mere reflection.
He plainly said you know God and have seen God!
There is a lot of Philips around here!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2009,15:13) G,
Are you quoting scripture?
But you told us not to rely on it?
Agreed!Gene seems to think that the Spirit of God has shown only him what is true while he claims that scriptures prove his points. But he cannot refute our belief with scriptures but just make empty claims!
WJ
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 19 2009,18:53) 
MEN WITH 'ELOHIM’S NAME
One of the passages which is most helpful in demonstrating all this is John 10:34-36.
Here the Jews made the mistake which many do today.
They thought that Yeshua HaMoshiach was saying he was 'Elohim Himself.
Yeshua HaMoshiach corrected them by saying, “Is it not written in your law, I said, You are gods?
If He called them ‘gods’…why do you say of (me)…’You blaspheme!’ because I said, I am the Son of 'Elohim?’.
Yeshua HaMoshiach is really saying ‘In the Old Testament men are called ‘gods’; I am saying I am the Son of 'Elohim; so why are you getting so upset?’
Yeshua HaMoshiach is actually quoting from Ps. 82, where the judges of Israel were called ‘gods’.
As has been shown, the full name of G-d in Hebrew is ‘Yahweh Elohim’ – implying ‘He who will be revealed in a group of mighty ones’.
The true believers are those in whom 'Elohim is revealed in a limited sense in this life.
However, in the Kingdom, they will be ‘mighty ones’ in whom the LORD will be fully manifested.
This is all beautifully shown by a comparison of Is. 64:4 and 1 Cor. 2:9. “Men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither has the eye seen, O 'Elohim, besides you, what He has prepared for him that waits for him”.
Paul quotes this in 1 Cor. 2:9,10: “It is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither has entered into the heart of man, the things which 'Elohim has prepared for them that love Him. But 'Elohim has revealed them unto us by His Spirit”.
The passage in Is. 64 says that no one except 'Elohim can understand the things He has prepared for the believers.
However 1 Cor. 2:10 says that those things have been revealed to us.
The priests were 'Elohim’s representatives, and for a man to ‘appear before the Lord’ effectively referred to his appearance before the priest.
When we read of “men going up to 'Elohim at Bethel”, the ‘house of 'Elohim’ (1 Sam. 10:3), we aren’t to think that 'Elohim Himself lived in a house in Bethel.
The reference is to the priests, his representative, being there.
Not only is the Name of 'Elohim carried by people, but language and actions which are specific to 'Elohim are sometimes applied to humans who manifest Him.
The daughter of Pharaoh who saved baby Moses is described in the very terms with which 'Elohim is described as saving His people Israel 'out of the water' just as Moses was saved.
She came 'came down', 'sees' the suffering child, hears its cry, takes pity, draws him out of the water, provides for him (Ex. 2:23-25; 3:7,8).
The parallels are surely to indicate that 'Elohim was willing to show Himself manifest in that Gentile woman in the salvation of His people.
And of course the whole practical idea of 'Elohim manifestation' is that we consciously try to reflect the characteristics of 'Elohimd, for His Name is in fact a summary of His characteristics and personality (Ex. 34:4-6).
Hi Ron,I find myself usually agreeing with you.
But this post?
I believe you really messed up on this one.
This post (I believe) will add nothing but confusion.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2009,07:13) G,
Are you quoting scripture?
But you told us not to rely on it?
Nick……..I quote scripture all the time, but you as well as others fail to acknowledge it. But some scriptures have been corrupted that is why we have so many different Bibles and Churches because they can't agree with each other. I have quoted very clear scriptures and you just ignore them like Thinker and WJ do.Thats all you seem to be able to do here is falsely accuse and Label people. Hardly and attribute of GOD. But you and the rest of the accusers are right about one thing I would far more rely on GOD HOLY Spirit of TRUTH, then any mistranslated or misapplied Scripture. Evidentially you people do not believe Jesus when He said “YOU SHALL (ALL) BE TAUGHT BY GOD” and again ” brethren you have (NO) need of a Teacher for the SPIRIT will Teach you (ALL) things.
I realize you truly do not believe nor understand this even as you and others do not believe other things Jesus Has said either. O well you do it you way without GOD Spirit Guidance may be WJ 600 Scholars taking you through endless mazes of useless trails of deception will teach you. I for one will let GOD'S Spirit guide me and impute understand into my mind. I will continue to rely on being (taught by HIM). You and WJ and Thinker remind me of when Jesus said “You search the scriptures for in them you (THINK) you have Life, but they are those which spoke of Me but you will not come to Me in order to Have life'.
You also “profess GOD But deny the (POWER) there of”. You rely on your (FEAR Religion) and WJ on his 600 hundred “trinitarian” Scholars. He can't even come to the simple plain word of Jesus that there is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD> And “Here O ISREAL THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD” amazing!. IMO
Gene said:
Quote Nick……..I quote scripture all the time, but you as well as others fail to acknowledge it.
Gene,
But there are some earlier scriptures which say that Jesus saved the people out of Egypt and you answered saying that we should not believe the scriptures but the Spirit. So no one will listen to you now when you quote the scriptures. You told us not to believe them.thinker
WorshippingJesus said:
Quote Kerwin Forget the dead image in a mirror.
Jesus is not a dead image of the Father.
BOOM!
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 20 2009,10:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2009,15:13) G,
Are you quoting scripture?
But you told us not to rely on it?
Agreed!Gene seems to think that the Spirit of God has shown only him what is true while he claims that scriptures prove his points. But he cannot refute our belief with scriptures but just make empty claims!
WJ
WJ………Please i have posted hundreds of scriptures to you as well as others have also. In over three and a half year here, Very simple to understand scriptures , but when GOD Sends a deluding Spirit no one can remove it. They could not change even if they tried to. The lack of Love for the truth has seals their fate for now, until GOD unlocks it. because they are not about truth, but Traditions of their churches denominational stands and doctrinal Theologies. And that applies the same for all who do not truly LOVE TRUTH, they will weave a continual web of deception by false teachings. O and by the way the SPIRIT of GOD (HAS) Shown me many things concerning His words. I certainly did not get it from believing in 600 GREEK Scholars that for sure.Thinker ……..Please post where i said not to to believe in scripture are you becoming a false accuser like NICK and WJ> I recall saying there were some errors in the texts we now have , but where did i say we are not to believe in them all. I have just quoted to you what Jesus said and YOU still do not believe. And your assumption that Jesus saved the people out of Egypt is also false. You trinitarians alway try to rob GOD the FATHER of HIS glory and transfer it to JESUS. But when He Comes you will meet your fate 2 Ths 2. pretty sums up you Trinitarians and Preexistences Fate. IMO
Quote (Gene @ Dec. 19 2009,22:33) You also “profess GOD But deny the (POWER) there of”. You rely on your (FEAR Religion) and WJ on his 600 hundred “trinitarian” Scholars. He can't even come to the simple plain word of Jesus that there is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD> And “Here O ISREAL THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD” amazing!. IMO
How do you know that scripture you just quoted is the truth Gene, since you say they are corrupt?What do you think this sight is about. Its about discussing Gods inspired word of which you only think is inspired when it agrees with your theology.
You make false accusations and judgments about our hearts and tell us you have the ability to hear from the Spirit, but even when it contradicts the Apostles written word who surely were able to hear better than you, then you just deny it and say it is corrupt.
Heck what good is the written scriptures for then Gene if all we need is the HolY Spirit. Didn't Peter say that the scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation?
Didn't the early church search the scriptures daily to sse if those things were so or not?
So go ahead and make your claims about us being decieved while you seem to make yourself the plumbline of truth here.
Your belief that the scriptures are corrupt is proof why you do not believe them.
All I have seen you do here in the time you have been here is constantly make claims that we are deluded and worship a false God.
Well guess what Gene that is a two edged sword and cuts both ways.
If you want to say the scritpures are corrupt go ahead, but don't expect any one here to put much stock in your ability to exegete scripture or hear from the Spirit when it contradicts the inspired scriptures.
WJ
Quote (Gene @ Dec. 19 2009,22:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 20 2009,10:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2009,15:13) G,
Are you quoting scripture?
But you told us not to rely on it?
Agreed!Gene seems to think that the Spirit of God has shown only him what is true while he claims that scriptures prove his points. But he cannot refute our belief with scriptures but just make empty claims!
WJ
WJ………Please i have posted hundreds of scriptures to you as well as others have also. In over three and a half year here, Very simple to understand scriptures , but when GOD Sends a deluding Spirit no one can remove it. They could not change even if they tried to. The lack of Love for the truth has seals their fate for now, until GOD unlocks it. because they are not about truth, but Traditions of their churches denominational stands and doctrinal Theologies. And that applies the same for all who do not truly LOVE TRUTH, they will weave a continual web of deception by false teachings. O and by the way the SPIRIT of GOD (HAS) Shown me many things concerning His words. I certainly did not get it from believing in 600 GREEK Scholars that for sure.
GeneYes of course you know more about God than the 100s and 1000s of believers that disagree with you.
You know more about the scriptures than the experts in Hebrew and Greek which translated what we have.
You seem to think that they did not have the Spirit also.
Why? Because they do not agree with you.
Seriously, I find it very arrogant to claim to know more than they do when most of them gave their entire lives to bring you the scriptures in your written language.
But go ahead and continue to accuse the brethren of having a deluded Spirit sent from God!
How do you know you are not the one with the deluded Spirit?
WJ
Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 19 2009,11:25) gene your not making any sense with your ramblings at all. what is this “a Being Kill Him and rebirth HIM and have him die again.
did he die 2 times?? not sure what you mean. i see only one time that the bible says god's son, jesus christ had died. where do you get he died 2 times?
there are a lot of scriptures that tell you why and what his ransom means to us all. there are a scriptures that tell you that he was in heaven with his father before the earth was created. its been posted over and over again.
just because you choose not to read them for what they say is all your doing.
the scribess and pharisees and non believers alike even knowing that his arrival was predicted, denied and hated christ and chose to do the things of man, of flesh and what had been tradition from there fathers beforehand.
now is not the time to be living as those did.we are to have everlasting life through jesus, belief in him and what he taught and preached and to spread that to others.
one cannot do that if one does not believe whole heartedly and accept the truth.
the jews new, others new he was to come and they did believe but chose to turn a blind eye and wanting to live the life they had. they were to puffed up with pride claiming that since they were decendents of abraham they were fine. they though they wre rightous and needed no guidence from another. but such is not the case. they hated him and didn't want ot listen at all even with all the miracles teachings he did. they new but didn't care.
christ is the way and his requires a spiritual way. he did not come to fix judiasm, he came and established christianity.
before him with moses it was a flesh way to god with the commandments. live life this way or else. now its jesus and spiritual believe and accepting him. preaching god kingdom to others and do rightous things.
Yes, I agree with you it does not matter how many Scriptures you put in front of them, they wouldn't see it. Not only are these Scriptures that prove of the preexisting of Jesus, it is clear. How anybody can make something else out of it, is behind me. Tell you the truth I am so done with this. I am getting mighty tired of it. Explaining over and over again and not seeing, makes me wonder.
IreneGene said:
Quote I have just quoted to you what Jesus said and YOU still do not believe
Gene,
You do not quote everything Jesus said. You quote only His statements which you think support your doctrine. When we quote His statements about His exaltation you just ignore them. Example: Jesus said that His words were not His own. This is true. But He also said that the time would come when all truth would be His. He said, “All that the Father has IS mine.” Now that He is exalted He may reveal truth as He sees fit. But you just deny it.You speak HALF TRUTHS here. Half truths are lies Gene. If you speak half truths in a court of law you would be accused of perjury.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 20 2009,20:34) Gene said: Quote I have just quoted to you what Jesus said and YOU still do not believe
Gene,
You do not quote everything Jesus said. You quote only His statements which you think support your doctrine. When we quote His statements about His exaltation you just ignore them. Example: Jesus said that His words were not His own. This is true. But He also said that the time would come when all truth would be His. He said, “All that the Father has IS mine.” Now that He is exalted He may reveal truth as He sees fit. But you just deny it.You speak HALF TRUTHS here. Half truths are lies Gene. If you speak half truths in a court of law you would be accused of perjury.
thinker
Thinker,
Jesus is 1 with God because God is in him. I have never denied that Jesus is God just that he is not equal with him and Jesus tells us many times that he is not equal and that the Father is the only true God.Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 19 2009,20:56) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2009,22:54) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 19 2009,17:41) You are correct, and don't see things like these.
Trinitarians can't compare verses for some reason.
Trinitarians also think the image of God is God as if the image of me in the mirror is me. Logical reasoning is not their strong point.
Misrepresentation! Hebrews 1 says that the Son is the express image of God's substance. It means that Christ's being was not derived. The sun's rays are the “exact image” of the sun's substance.The term “express image” or “exact representation” is NEVER used of other men. At best it means the Son is God. In the least it means that Jesus was a unique man.
thinker
I agree that Jesus is a unique man since he is the Anointed One.Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2009,04:32) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 19 2009,20:56) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2009,22:54) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 19 2009,17:41) You are correct, and don't see things like these.
Trinitarians can't compare verses for some reason.
Trinitarians also think the image of God is God as if the image of me in the mirror is me. Logical reasoning is not their strong point.
Misrepresentation! Hebrews 1 says that the Son is the express image of God's substance. It means that Christ's being was not derived. The sun's rays are the “exact image” of the sun's substance.The term “express image” or “exact representation” is NEVER used of other men. At best it means the Son is God. In the least it means that Jesus was a unique man.
thinker
I agree that Jesus is a unique man since he is the Anointed One.
Jesus was not “unique” because He was anointed. Moses was anointed too. Try again.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 21 2009,06:02) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2009,04:32) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 19 2009,20:56) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2009,22:54) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 19 2009,17:41) You are correct, and don't see things like these.
Trinitarians can't compare verses for some reason.
Trinitarians also think the image of God is God as if the image of me in the mirror is me. Logical reasoning is not their strong point.
Misrepresentation! Hebrews 1 says that the Son is the express image of God's substance. It means that Christ's being was not derived. The sun's rays are the “exact image” of the sun's substance.The term “express image” or “exact representation” is NEVER used of other men. At best it means the Son is God. In the least it means that Jesus was a unique man.
thinker
I agree that Jesus is a unique man since he is the Anointed One.
Jesus was not “unique” because He was anointed. Moses was anointed too. Try again.thinker
Thinker
Jesus was unique because he had all the fullness of Deity in bodily form but it was Gods good pleasure for the Fullness to dwell in Christ. Which means Christ did not always possess it, it was given to him.
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