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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 08 2009,14:11) Hi ED,
Why would anyone join in such folly?
So why do you ask such silly questions?
Hi Nick,Did you ever study with the JW's in the past?
This question is very similar to the past question I asked.
And the reason I ask, is I have and, it appears to me that you
hold to some of their beliefs. That is why I asked, I meant no disrespect.God bless
Ed JQuote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 08 2009,14:11) Hi ED,
Why would anyone join in such folly?
So why do you ask such silly questions?
Hi Nick,Did you ever study with the JW's in the past?
This question is very similar to the past question I asked.
And the reason I ask, is I have and, it appears to me that you
hold to some of their beliefs. That is why I asked, I meant no disrespect.God bless
Ed JQuote (georg @ Nov. 09 2009,03:09) Helo Ed! Thank you for that Post. Maybe we should all step back and realize who really the enemy is.
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,Bible studying together with fellow believers (Hebrews 10:25) helps us to fulfill this prophecy…
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot,
or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.comHi ED,
Never.They believe that Jesus is not the God of the Jews but that is not a unique understanding.
What of you?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 09 2009,08:19) Hi ED,
Never.They believe that Jesus is not the God of the Jews but that is not a unique understanding.
What of you?
Hi Nick,This question you ask me may seem simple to you, but I could not answer it in
just a little snippet. In the free e-book called “HolyCityBibleCode” I address in
great detail (according to my understanding) “God The Father”, “Jesus”, and the “Holy Spirit”I believe the story begins at John 15:27, I believe this verses meaning was not merely
speaking of Jesus disciples and the beginning of his ministry; I believe the Exegesis meaning
is what happened before we came to planet Earth to exist as Humans; everybody’s pre-existence.YÄ-shü-ă was the mirror image of GOD; because he was perfect.
When we become perfect, the same thing that happened to him begins happening to us. (John 15:20)I will use a scenario; please don’t get hung up on it,
keep in mind this is like using the example of a mirror to explain a person.People see a perfect person as a reflection of themselves; this is why the Pharisees
hated him, because they really hated the way they are! Let me give you an example
of this. Let’s say a person who is a slacker gets a job at Wal-Mart. When he sees a
person (other than himself) sitting down on company time and getting away with it,
he gets upset (but he doesn’t know that this because of the weakness in his character).Please don’t misunderstand, I didn’t mean that the person sitting down was perfect.
This story explains the meaning of the verses of Psalms 18:24-25.People see the weaknesses in their own character in others.
WE CANNOT ACCORDING TO THE MANY SATAN LIES BE PERFECT HERE ON EARTH!
This phrase cannot be pulled out of context; which he always tries to get people to do!“be perfect here on Earth”
“Satan Lies be perfect here on Earth”
“according to the many Satan Lies”
“We cannot according to the many”
“to the many Satan Lies be perfect”
and so on.I need to stop right here to make sure that we see I (eye) to I (eye) on this.
God bless
Ed JQuote (georg @ Nov. 08 2009,15:07) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 08 2009,14:23) Ed J…………You are right the word is and was GOD. John 1:1 no where mentions Jesus' name and rather these people believe it or not John knew how to spell Jesus' name if that is who he was referring to. False religion has interchanged the word (word) for Jesus. Just like a mans words are connected to him so are God's words connected to him also. These people have the nerve to say we are viewing it wrong because we don't share in changing the text as they do, to fit there religious conceptions of trinity and preexistences theologies.
The words of GOD (ARE) GOD and are life and are spirit. Jesus said the words i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT AND THEY (ARE) LIFE. Jesus also said the WORDS WERE (NOT) HIS WORDS. But closed minds can not understand that. They think Jesus is the WORD when in fact he was speaking GOD'S WORDS TO US. So how does that make (HIM) the WORD then, seeing the words were not his words he was speaking. IMO
gene
Gene In John 1:14 It says that the Word became flesh. So who is then that became flesh? Did God become flesh? And who are these people?
Irene
Irene…….it is (IMPOSSIBLE) for a word to (BECOME) FLESH, a word is SPIRIT (NOT) Flesh, God is not flesh He is Spirit and Spirit does not have Flesh. Spirit can only come to be (IN) flesh. Flesh is (NOT) SPIRIT , Jesus was (flesh and blood) and Not a Spirit as He said . He did have spirit of GOD (IN) Him though. You are forcing the text to try to make Jesus a Man, a Spirit. Spirit is (NEVER) Flesh, ever. IMOlove and peace to you and Georg………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 09 2009,13:25) Quote (georg @ Nov. 08 2009,15:07) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 08 2009,14:23) Ed J…………You are right the word is and was GOD. John 1:1 no where mentions Jesus' name and rather these people believe it or not John knew how to spell Jesus' name if that is who he was referring to. False religion has interchanged the word (word) for Jesus. Just like a mans words are connected to him so are God's words connected to him also. These people have the nerve to say we are viewing it wrong because we don't share in changing the text as they do, to fit there religious conceptions of trinity and preexistences theologies.
The words of GOD (ARE) GOD and are life and are spirit. Jesus said the words i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT AND THEY (ARE) LIFE. Jesus also said the WORDS WERE (NOT) HIS WORDS. But closed minds can not understand that. They think Jesus is the WORD when in fact he was speaking GOD'S WORDS TO US. So how does that make (HIM) the WORD then, seeing the words were not his words he was speaking. IMO
gene
Gene In John 1:14 It says that the Word became flesh. So who is then that became flesh? Did God become flesh? And who are these people?
Irene
Irene…….it is (IMPOSSIBLE) for a word to (BECOME) FLESH, a word is SPIRIT (NOT) Flesh, God is not flesh He is Spirit and Spirit does not have Flesh. Spirit can only come to be (IN) flesh. Flesh is (NOT) SPIRIT , Jesus was (flesh and blood) and Not a Spirit as He said . He did have spirit of GOD (IN) Him though. You are forcing the text to try to make Jesus a Man, a Spirit. Spirit is (NEVER) Flesh, ever. IMOlove and peace to you and Georg………………..gene
To All,
Did you notice Gene's double talk. He said that a spirit cannot “become” flesh. It can only “come to be” in flesh.Would someone like to tell me the difference?
thinker
To all,
What is the error in this logical argument?
God is the Word.
Scripture is the Word.
Therefore God is Scripture.All must therefore worship Scripture which would be idolatry.
The argument is flawed so please do not assume otherwise.
thinker………you and your word are the same thing. GOD and His Words are the same thing. A word cannot be flesh it can only be (IN) a flesh person, this is simple understanding why can't you get it? IMO
gene
Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 03 2009,06:07) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 09 2009,13:25) Quote (georg @ Nov. 08 2009,15:07) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 08 2009,14:23) Ed J…………You are right the word is and was GOD. John 1:1 no where mentions Jesus' name and rather these people believe it or not John knew how to spell Jesus' name if that is who he was referring to. False religion has interchanged the word (word) for Jesus. Just like a mans words are connected to him so are God's words connected to him also. These people have the nerve to say we are viewing it wrong because we don't share in changing the text as they do, to fit there religious conceptions of trinity and preexistences theologies.
The words of GOD (ARE) GOD and are life and are spirit. Jesus said the words i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT AND THEY (ARE) LIFE. Jesus also said the WORDS WERE (NOT) HIS WORDS. But closed minds can not understand that. They think Jesus is the WORD when in fact he was speaking GOD'S WORDS TO US. So how does that make (HIM) the WORD then, seeing the words were not his words he was speaking. IMO
gene
Gene In John 1:14 It says that the Word became flesh. So who is then that became flesh? Did God become flesh? And who are these people?
Irene
Irene…….it is (IMPOSSIBLE) for a word to (BECOME) FLESH, a word is SPIRIT (NOT) Flesh, God is not flesh He is Spirit and Spirit does not have Flesh. Spirit can only come to be (IN) flesh. Flesh is (NOT) SPIRIT , Jesus was (flesh and blood) and Not a Spirit as He said . He did have spirit of GOD (IN) Him though. You are forcing the text to try to make Jesus a Man, a Spirit. Spirit is (NEVER) Flesh, ever. IMOlove and peace to you and Georg………………..gene
To All,
Did you notice Gene's double talk. He said that a spirit cannot “become” flesh. It can only “come to be” in flesh.Would someone like to tell me the difference?
thinker
thinker ……..are you serious , you really don't know the difference between Flesh and Spirit, Let me help you when a man dies his (spirit) returns to him who gave (IT), His body goes to the grave and turns back to dust. Jesus said WORDS (ARE) SPIRIT, so that means a WORD can not be FLESH. Hope that helped some.gene
bible says that jesus resided with his father in heaven as a spirit being but was also created by a miracle from god he made him a perfect human. no man was used to create jesus, this was done through god as a miracle. god, jesus and angels are all spirit beings. by the way angels did come to earth and come in flesh and proceeded to make relations with human women and create giant nephlam. so spirit beings have manafested in flesh.
the word refers to jesus: john 1:18 – no one has ever seen god. but verse 14 says the word became fleshand dwelt among us. it also in vrese 1,2 states tht the word was with god. how can you be with someone yet be that person also, that makes no sense.
john 17:3 – jesus states that his father is the only true god.
hebrew 1:3 he sat at the right hand of god.
this in conjunction to other scriptures clearly defines jesus throughout . it when applied to other scriptures must be and have the same meaning and consitancy. it cannot be one thing but also be another
peace2all wrote:
Quote bible says that jesus resided with his father in heaven as a spirit being but was also created by a miracle from god he made him a perfect human.
I certainly do not remember that explicitly being written in scripture therefore you are deriving it from other scriptures. What are the scriptures that you are using and the logic based on those scriptures to reach the conclusion you have?
Here is an argument. A demon is a spiritual being. One demon takes on the form of a human being. Is that demon now a human being or a demon with the body of a human?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2009,02:32) peace2all wrote: Quote bible says that jesus resided with his father in heaven as a spirit being but was also created by a miracle from god he made him a perfect human.
I certainly do not remember that explicitly being written in scripture therefore you are deriving it from other scriptures. What are the scriptures that you are using and the logic based on those scriptures to reach the conclusion you have?
Here is an argument. A demon is a spiritual being. One demon takes on the form of a human being. Is that demon now a human being or a demon with the body of a human?
why do you want to argue, just accept truth if it is shown.does god want you to have faith and believe or continue to try to disprove his words.
really you don't or haven't read of any scriptures that said jesus was first in heaven with his father before comming to earth. you havent read that jesus was returning to to whence he came. what bible do you use?
john 6:38 -for i have come down from heaven , not to do my will but the will of him who sent me. this is the will of the father
john 8:23 – you are from beneath, i am from above, you are from this world, i am not of this world
jhn 17:5 – glorify me together with yourself with the glory i had with you before the world was.
colossians 1:15-17 – he is the image of the invisible god the firstborn over all creation. for by him all things that were created i nheaven and on earth ,all things were created through him and for him.
luke 1:30-40
proverbs 8:22 – god possed me at the beginning of his way before his works of old. i have been established from everlasting, from the beginning before there was ever a earth
proverbs 8:27-31 – when he prepared the heavens i was there, then it goes on to say the things on the earth, verse 30 reads — then i was beside him as a master craftsman
i'm sure there are others, im kinda new to this all.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2009,02:32) peace2all wrote: Quote bible says that jesus resided with his father in heaven as a spirit being but was also created by a miracle from god he made him a perfect human.
I certainly do not remember that explicitly being written in scripture therefore you are deriving it from other scriptures. What are the scriptures that you are using and the logic based on those scriptures to reach the conclusion you have?
Here is an argument. A demon is a spiritual being. One demon takes on the form of a human being. Is that demon now a human being or a demon with the body of a human?
really so jesus wasnt perfect and by god having mary give birth by his will is not a miracle or different than being a mere human man created from dust? created by means of human conception of man and woman.hmm
peace2all…….you are under obligation to show where it says that Jesus resided with his father in heaven as a spirit being but was also created by a miracle from god he made a perfect human. You will find no such scriptures in the bible, you have bought into the Trinitain and Preexistence Doctrines. Jesus never preexisted His berth on earth except in the plan of GOD. Forcing the text to try to make it come out that was is pure Trinitarian tactics and part of MYSTERY RELIGIONS TEACHINGS. IMO
peace and love …………….gene
those scriptures cleary state jesus was with god. proverbs 8 clearly says that when the heavens were prepared tht he was with him and tht god thru jesus created all things.
colosians says jesus was the firstborn of all creation and was used to create all.
scriptures say he was there, it dosn't say jesus was a thought. something thats there, has been made to be. a thought or idea is not there and able to do things and be somewhere if its not anything.
there are spirit beings tht were also there before the earth. do you deny that too. so was “satan” before he became that name/spirit person.
there are armies of spirits or angels.you sure you can read.
does me using miracle for what god did not sit right. not a bad word to use. i mean jesus was not born from man, but god made it happen. he sent his son. how can he send something that isn't anything. if it was a thought or plan then it would have then originated on earth then and never had been able to go back from where he came.
and god sent his only begotten thought
and god sent his only begotten plan.john 17:5 – o father glorify me together with yourself with the glory which i had before the world was.
so here he says he wants to have the glory he had when he was in heaven before the world was created. as the bible says god thru jesus all was created. so you idea that jesus was thought or plan or idea does not fit at all.
yuo need to read teh scriptures for what they reveal, which is th etruth adn not use your own opinon. nothing leads or says he was a thought.
clearly says he was there with his father.
peace2all wrote:
Quote why do you want to argue, just accept truth if it is shown.
I asked a question and you chose not to answer it. The question being “is the body of a human being with a demon soul a human or a demon?” Are you afraid of the answer?
peace2all wrote:
Quote john 6:38 -for i have come down from heaven , not to do my will but the will of him who sent me. this is the will of the father
John 6:38 does not explicitly state that Jesus is preexistent. You are assuming that is true. Do you doubt that God sent Jesus as he sent the prophets before hand? Do you doubt that they were ordained by heaven? Where else do you think the people of God come from if not from heaven? If you are truly a servant of God then you to come from above as you actions will testify.
peace2all wrote:
Quote john 8:23 – you are from beneath, i am from above, you are from this world, i am not of this world
This one does not explicitly state Jesus was preexistent but it does state those who do the works of their father the devil are from below which is why they would die in their sins. He was obviously not speaking about believers.
peace2all wrote:
Quote jhn 17:5 – glorify me together with yourself with the glory i had with you before the world was.
This also does not explicitly state Jesus is preexistent. I would state you have trouble comprehending the sentence since it in other words states “apply the glory today you have waiting for me before the world existed“. He obviously is not stating that he was glorified before the world began or he would not ask to be glorified at that time.
peace2all wrote:
Quote colossians 1:15-17 – he is the image of the invisible god the firstborn over all creation. for by him all things that were created in heaven and on earth ,all things were created through him and for him.
This scripture does not explicitly state Jesus is preexistent. It is true that through Jesus we are all a new creation for the first has passed away. If we were all in created through Jesus in the first place then no hope for salvation remains as we have all gone astray. It is through the new covenant that one is created in Jesus or do you believe scripture is wrong on that point. I ask because that is the point you are making.
peace2all wrote:
Quote proverbs 8:22 – god possed me at the beginning of his way before his works of old. i have been established from everlasting, from the beginning before there was ever a earth
proverbs 8:27-31 – when he prepared the heavens i was there, then it goes on to say the things on the earth, verse 30 reads — then i was beside him as a master craftsman
These two are about Wisdom and not about Jesus. John 1:1 is speaking of God’s Word which is wisdom and so they do apply to John 1:1 though they obviously do not explicitly state Jesus is preexistent since they are not about him.
peace2all wrote:
Quote luke 1:30-40
I am not sure what version of scripture you chose to use so I am not addressing it specifically. I can address the passage by pointing out that in verse 33 the King James Version states the angel spoke in the future tense by stating “He shall be great.” the New International Version uses similar words. In verse 31 the angel tells Mary Jesus will be formed in her womb which is obviously not beforehand. In other words this passage certainly does not explicitly state Jesus ii preexistent and actually states he would be formed in Mary’s womb. The question is do you believe scripture when it explicitly states Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb or do you believe in the traditions of man.
peace2all wrote:
Quote i'm sure there are others, im kinda new to this all.
I consider that a plus since there is a lot of deception that Satan has put into modern Christian doctrines and I believe those who have been immersed in any of them for a briefer time may have a better chance of seeing though it as they become more informed.
I assure you that scripture is true when it states Jesus is a human being just like you and me though he unlike us and always been and remains totally faithful to God. It is through faith in him and so obeying all his teachings that we too can claim that prize for he leads us true. Trust in Jesus. Trust in God.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2009,11:00) peace2all wrote: Quote why do you want to argue, just accept truth if it is shown.
I asked a question and you chose not to answer it. The question being “is the body of a human being with a demon soul a human or a demon?” Are you afraid of the answer?
peace2all wrote:
Quote john 6:38 -for i have come down from heaven , not to do my will but the will of him who sent me. this is the will of the father
John 6:38 does not explicitly state that Jesus is preexistent. You are assuming that is true. Do you doubt that God sent Jesus as he sent the prophets before hand? Do you doubt that they were ordained by heaven? Where else do you think the people of God come from if not from heaven? If you are truly a servant of God then you to come from above as you actions will testify.
peace2all wrote:
Quote john 8:23 – you are from beneath, i am from above, you are from this world, i am not of this world
This one does not explicitly state Jesus was preexistent but it does state those who do the works of their father the devil are from below which is why they would die in their sins. He was obviously not speaking about believers.
peace2all wrote:
Quote jhn 17:5 – glorify me together with yourself with the glory i had with you before the world was.
This also does not explicitly state Jesus is preexistent. I would state you have trouble comprehending the sentence since it in other words states “apply the glory today you have waiting for me before the world existed“. He obviously is not stating that he was glorified before the world began or he would not ask to be glorified at that time.
peace2all wrote:
Quote colossians 1:15-17 – he is the image of the invisible god the firstborn over all creation. for by him all things that were created in heaven and on earth ,all things were created through him and for him.
This scripture does not explicitly state Jesus is preexistent. It is true that through Jesus we are all a new creation for the first has passed away. If we were all in created through Jesus in the first place then no hope for salvation remains as we have all gone astray. It is through the new covenant that one is created in Jesus or do you believe scripture is wrong on that point. I ask because that is the point you are making.
peace2all wrote:
Quote proverbs 8:22 – god possed me at the beginning of his way before his works of old. i have been established from everlasting, from the beginning before there was ever a earth
proverbs 8:27-31 – when he prepared the heavens i was there, then it goes on to say the things on the earth, verse 30 reads — then i was beside him as a master craftsman
These two are about Wisdom and not about Jesus. John 1:1 is speaking of God’s Word which is wisdom and so they do apply to John 1:1 though they obviously do not explicitly state Jesus is preexistent since they are not about him.
peace2all wrote:
Quote luke 1:30-40
I am not sure what version of scripture you chose to use so I am not addressing it specifically. I can address the passage by pointing out that in verse 33 the King James Version states the angel spoke in the future tense by stating “He shall be great.” the New International Version uses similar words. In verse 31 the angel tells Mary Jesus will be formed in her womb which is obviously not beforehand. In other words this passage certainly does not explicitly state Jesus ii preexistent and actually states he would be formed in Mary’s womb. The question is do you believe scripture when it explicitly states Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb or do you believe in the traditions of man.
peace2all wrote:
Quote i'm sure there are others, im kinda new to this all.
I consider that a plus since there is a lot of deception that Satan has put into modern Christian doctrines and I believe those who have been immersed in any of them for a briefer time may have a better chance of seeing though it as they become more informed.
I assure you that scripture is true when it states Jesus is a human being just like you and me though he unlike us and always been and remains totally faithful to God. It is through faith in him and so obeying all his teachings that we too can claim that prize for he leads us true. Trust in Jesus. Trust in God.
i am not affraid of the question but for one, we were not talking about wahtever it is you are trying to prove, you are turning away from what was in discussion and adding things that doesn't matter or pertain to what was at hand.what will you gain from that question?
if a person is controlled/have entered by a demon they would be still a person.
but if a demon manifested into the form of man as in noahs day they would not be man. for they did leave earthy form and go back to spirit form and left the earth before the flood.
we were created from god through jesus from the earth. we were not created in heaven in sprit form then come to earth.
the scriptures state jesus as saying he was with god and that he came from the heavens , he is stated to be the firstborn of creation.
he was before all other things. so for him to be nothing except a idea as you say is only your opinion and not what the bible teaches.
you offer nothing but your speculation. not god's scriptures.
if the bible says that jesus was the firstborn of creation and was before all and helped create all things and says that he was with god from the start in heaven
then you better believe it. i am not adding my opinon or assumption to it .
the bible tells us clearly.
john 8:23 – you are from beneath, i am from above, you are from this world, i am not of this world
(((This one does not explicitly state Jesus was preexistent))
really it clearly says he is from heaven and we are from the earth. he is sprirt being we are man made from the earth created by god through jesus, as the bible says also.
he was crated by god in hea
ven. did god create you in heaven then send you to earth?(((Where else do you think the people of God come from if not from heaven?)))
i'm a offspring of adam & eve..as is all man!!!!!! they were made from out of the earth and will return to the earth, dust we were created adn dust we will return. did you not read genesis???
genesis 3:19 will help you.
you really don't know?? you really think you were made in heaven then brought to earth??
WOW your a angel, a spirit being.. WOW
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2009,11:00) I asked a question and you chose not to answer it. The question being “is the body of a human being with a demon soul a human or a demon?” Are you afraid of the answer?
A possessed human.THe flesh is there, the person who inhabits the body is the soul, and a demon spirit or host can reside too.
Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,08:18) those scriptures cleary state jesus was with god. proverbs 8 clearly says that when the heavens were prepared tht he was with him and tht god thru jesus created all things. colosians says jesus was the firstborn of all creation and was used to create all.
scriptures say he was there, it dosn't say jesus was a thought. something thats there, has been made to be. a thought or idea is not there and able to do things and be somewhere if its not anything.
there are spirit beings tht were also there before the earth. do you deny that too. so was “satan” before he became that name/spirit person.
there are armies of spirits or angels.you sure you can read.
does me using miracle for what god did not sit right. not a bad word to use. i mean jesus was not born from man, but god made it happen. he sent his son. how can he send something that isn't anything. if it was a thought or plan then it would have then originated on earth then and never had been able to go back from where he came.
and god sent his only begotten thought
and god sent his only begotten plan.john 17:5 – o father glorify me together with yourself with the glory which i had before the world was.
so here he says he wants to have the glory he had when he was in heaven before the world was created. as the bible says god thru jesus all was created. so you idea that jesus was thought or plan or idea does not fit at all.
yuo need to read teh scriptures for what they reveal, which is th etruth adn not use your own opinon. nothing leads or says he was a thought.
clearly says he was there with his father.
I agree.
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