- This topic has 25,957 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 8 hours, 2 minutes ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 28 2009,00:14) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 27 2009,21:09) Thinker. Playing with words cannot make something wrong, right.
In the New Testament, it is written that there is ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. And there is one God, the Father.
I believe this and you do not.
Argue with Paul about it. He wrote it not me. I can't be blamed for what Paul wrote.
You know that the words Spirit, Father, God, (and I am sure many others) are used of God, but also others. Angels are called spirits, Abraham was a father, Jesus said to some “you are gods”.
Get over it. Trying to make Abraham the Father or an Angel the Spirit is wrong. Same with trying to make Jesus YHWH.
Jesus may have YHWH's name in him, but so do many others.
It is normal to have a name that means God's grace, or God is good, or something like that. It is not meant to be taken that a person with a name which references God means that he is God.
Simple stuff thinker. I think you need a name change. I don't believe that you really think things through at all. Just a bias and you go from there.
t8,
Please analyze what you wrote above. You admit that the name “YHWH” and “God” may be shared by others but only Jesus is Lord (kurios). This implies that the name “Lord” or “kurios” is a higher name if Jesus alone has it.So it is you who argues with Paul for He said that the name “Lord” (kurios) in reference to Jesus is ABOVE every other name. You have substantiated this by admitting that “YHWH” and “God” may be shared while Christ alone is “Lord.”
thinker
I am saying that there are many gods and many lords, but for US, there is one God the father and one lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.Think of it like this. Pharaoh made Joseph lord over his kingdom.
Josephs power was above all, but he was still subject to the Pharaoh.Joseph being lord over the Pharaoh's kingdom took nothing away from the Pharaoh himself. Joseph was his right-hand man.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 27 2009,19:17) Are you saying that the indulgences never happened or that it was not the wishes of those in command of the RCC?
O my goodness…you don't even know what indulgences are do you?We believe that the Church has power to grant indulgences. We just don't SELL them.
Indulgences have nothing whatever to do with getting people out of hell. They have no benefit to anyone but those who are being saved.
Do you know what an indulgence is? Please explain them to us.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 27 2009,21:09) Thinker. Playing with words cannot make something wrong, right.
t8,Facts are stubborn things. Sounds like your arguments with Thinker are melting. Why don't you just admit defeat.?
Thinker,
I encourage you to not let him change the topic. You've got him…again.
Hi CA,
It seems WE BELIEVE lots of fanciful things like purgatory and heavenly mothers and rosaries and stuff.
Amazing what accretions grow on a denomination when she decides she is fit to decide such things.Anything goes
Quote (georg @ Sep. 28 2009,01:05) t8 I like your debate with thinker, but how do you describe colors to a blind person?
Georg
Georg,Yes. And how do you explain a being who is a Trinity of persons to one who is not?
It's probably similar to computers trying to figure out humans. One computer says…no, no, they have what is called emotions….the rest laugh and say….no no, that is absurd….WE don't have emotions….how unreasonable….
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 28 2009,05:41) One man's “truth” is another man's “false doctrine”. Share your version of the truth all you like, but obviously it's not the ONLY truth available here.
Sounding kind of post-modern there. This is relativism.Please explain?
CA……….YOUR Church sales them so you should describe them. IMO
To my understanding a indulgence is where YOUR Pope payers for the recipient ,For a little change of course to support “the church”. A gift to “GOD” that never Reaches God , Just the Pope and HIS officers. Martin Luther found them to be an atrocity and the money was used for were some of the most vile things on earth . Read Luther's reports.
gene
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 28 2009,14:05) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 27 2009,21:09) Thinker. Playing with words cannot make something wrong, right.
t8,Facts are stubborn things. Sounds like your arguments with Thinker are melting. Why don't you just admit defeat.?
Thinker,
I encourage you to not let him change the topic. You've got him…again.
Ha ha. I like it. Very funny.Ignore all the arguments and scripture and then just make a general statement saying I am losing and thinker is winning. That way you might get lucky and give an appearance of victory to someone who has just joined the conversation or to others who may not understand what is going on.
Good entertainment value if anything. I really don't think your post will be taken seriously by anyone who reads these posts carefully. Anyway, could you kindly point out exactly what it is that you are claiming victory over? What is thinker saying that is disintegrating the truth that for us, there is one God the Father and one lord the Lord Jesus Christ.
We all wait with great anticipation for factual support for your drive by post.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 28 2009,06:16) Hi Not3,
So, like Pilate, you do not believe truth actually exists?
What is truth?Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 28 2009,14:10) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 28 2009,05:41) One man's “truth” is another man's “false doctrine”. Share your version of the truth all you like, but obviously it's not the ONLY truth available here.
Sounding kind of post-modern there. This is relativism.Please explain?
Hey CA,I'm not sure if I can say it any other way?
You found something that you think is truth because you are convinced it is truth. I may find the same thing and believe it is false because I am convinced it is false.
How is “truth” determined in this instance? It cannot be.
Love,
MandyMandy……What is real, reality from GOD that is what truth is. The SPIRIT (intellect) given by GOD is the power to recognize truth It gives us the ability to recognize what is right and what is wrong. FOR THE SPIRIT BOTH ACCUSES US AND DEFENDS US. The Spirit (intellect) of Truth is the (EARNEST OF GOD GIVEN TO US). It is the power to recognize truth. “After that you have recieved (POWER) from on HIGH”. That became the anchor to the Apostles Souls and with it we can sort through this maze of confusion call “religion”. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Sis……………….gene
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 28 2009,14:56) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 28 2009,14:10) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 28 2009,05:41) One man's “truth” is another man's “false doctrine”. Share your version of the truth all you like, but obviously it's not the ONLY truth available here.
Sounding kind of post-modern there. This is relativism.Please explain?
Hey CA,I'm not sure if I can say it any other way?
You found something that you think is truth because you are convinced it is truth. I may find the same thing and believe it is false because I am convinced it is false.
How is “truth” determined in this instance? It cannot be.
Love,
Mandy
It's just that when you use terms like not the “only truth” it seems like you are saying that two opposing views can both be true. This is highly unreasonable to me. Did you mean this?I found something and was convinced, yes. But while reason was a main player, it was not the only tool used in my conversion. The Christian faith is proved on a variety of levels.
What I am contending for is the belief that the Christian faith does not defy reason. Faith and reason are compatible.
So you ask, “How is “truth” determined in this instance?”
Good question.
My answer is this. It is that Truth is self-validating. Another way to say it is that when we have truth everything comes together on a variety of levels. Everything fits together like a puzzle. No more squares in round holes.
Another way to look at this is by the image of light. Even when we're in the dark, we know some things to be true…one of those things is that we are in the dark.
I think most the chaps here would recognize the degree of light they possess. But if they were honest, there is much that they are in the dark about. In those areas they can make an educated guess at best. So yes, I want to ask too “How is “truth” determined by an educated guess?”
It's not.
I have found something more than this. Truth is irrefutable. All of the pieces come together and stay together when you have truth. This is not to say that you know everything….of course not. This is to say that everything you know or can know is in harmony and you are at peace.
It is because of this harmony that I live that I cannot confess that truth can be contradictory….if that is what you are saying….which I suspect you don't really say when pressed.
t8 wrote:
Quote Jesus may have YHWH's name in him, but so do many others. This is your pet doctrine that you or someone concocted to explain away the passages of Scripture that clearly point to Jesus as YHWH.
Yet when you look at these passages, you have to READ INTO the text that YHWH's name was merely in Him…and come out believing that he is not Him. That's called eisegesis.
But very characteristic of you.
Hi CA,
Jesus is I AM WHO AM?
Then who is his Father or is he his own father?
Who is the God who was IN HIM reconciling the world to Himself?
Who is the God Who anointed him with the Holy Spirit and power and who was with him?I said this before the Catholic Church does not Baptize according to Scripture. Therefore that person does not have Gods Holy Spirit. Without Gods Holy Spirit one cannot understand the things of God. No matter how you slice it..
Maria worship, the Mass, indulgences, the trinity are all false doctrine, kept by the Catholic Church. Come out of Her my People Rev. 18:4 says. So why not heed and get out.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 28 2009,16:22) t8 wrote: Quote Jesus may have YHWH's name in him, but so do many others. This is your pet doctrine that you or someone concocted to explain away the passages of Scripture that clearly point to Jesus as YHWH.
Yet when you look at these passages, you have to READ INTO the text that YHWH's name was merely in Him…and come out believing that he is not Him. That's called eisegesis.
But very characteristic of you.
Not my pet doctrine.My pet doctrine is that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the son of the living God.
I know that the gates of hell will not prevail against this truth, and I also know that the enemy will try anything to prevail against it. He even tries to get people to believe another doctrine that says Jesus is God, instead of believing and teaching that he is the son of that God.
So when I refute the Trinity, I am not preaching my pet doctrine I am doing something along the lines of what is written in Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose itQuote (t8 @ Sep. 28 2009,09:20) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 28 2009,00:14) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 27 2009,21:09) Thinker. Playing with words cannot make something wrong, right.
In the New Testament, it is written that there is ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. And there is one God, the Father.
I believe this and you do not.
Argue with Paul about it. He wrote it not me. I can't be blamed for what Paul wrote.
You know that the words Spirit, Father, God, (and I am sure many others) are used of God, but also others. Angels are called spirits, Abraham was a father, Jesus said to some “you are gods”.
Get over it. Trying to make Abraham the Father or an Angel the Spirit is wrong. Same with trying to make Jesus YHWH.
Jesus may have YHWH's name in him, but so do many others.
It is normal to have a name that means God's grace, or God is good, or something like that. It is not meant to be taken that a person with a name which references God means that he is God.
Simple stuff thinker. I think you need a name change. I don't believe that you really think things through at all. Just a bias and you go from there.
t8,
Please analyze what you wrote above. You admit that the name “YHWH” and “God” may be shared by others but only Jesus is Lord (kurios). This implies that the name “Lord” or “kurios” is a higher name if Jesus alone has it.So it is you who argues with Paul for He said that the name “Lord” (kurios) in reference to Jesus is ABOVE every other name. You have substantiated this by admitting that “YHWH” and “God” may be shared while Christ alone is “Lord.”
thinker
I am saying that there are many gods and many lords, but for US, there is one God the father and one lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.Think of it like this. Pharaoh made Joseph lord over his kingdom.
Josephs power was above all, but he was still subject to the Pharaoh.Joseph being lord over the Pharaoh's kingdom took nothing away from the Pharaoh himself. Joseph was his right-hand man.
So you deny that the Father has exalted Jesus and has installed Him as God on the throne?“But to the Son He says, Your throne O God is forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of YOUR kingdom.”
You say that the Father is your God. Yet you reject that He has installed His Christ as God on the throne.
WJ has effectively disrproved you. You claim that there is only one true God at the same time acknowledging that Christ is also a true God. If there is only one true God then Christ would be a false God.
Your confusion is the result of failing to see that Christ's Father has installed Christ as God on the throne since then. If the Father is your God as you claim then accept it.
Joseph and Pharoah are not analogous to Christs session at the Father's right. Sorry.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 28 2009,05:17) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 28 2009,09:20) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 28 2009,00:14) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 27 2009,21:09) Thinker. Playing with words cannot make something wrong, right.
In the New Testament, it is written that there is ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. And there is one God, the Father.
I believe this and you do not.
Argue with Paul about it. He wrote it not me. I can't be blamed for what Paul wrote.
You know that the words Spirit, Father, God, (and I am sure many others) are used of God, but also others. Angels are called spirits, Abraham was a father, Jesus said to some “you are gods”.
Get over it. Trying to make Abraham the Father or an Angel the Spirit is wrong. Same with trying to make Jesus YHWH.
Jesus may have YHWH's name in him, but so do many others.
It is normal to have a name that means God's grace, or God is good, or something like that. It is not meant to be taken that a person with a name which references God means that he is God.
Simple stuff thinker. I think you need a name change. I don't believe that you really think things through at all. Just a bias and you go from there.
t8,
Please analyze what you wrote above. You admit that the name “YHWH” and “God” may be shared by others but only Jesus is Lord (kurios). This implies that the name “Lord” or “kurios” is a higher name if Jesus alone has it.So it is you who argues with Paul for He said that the name “Lord” (kurios) in reference to Jesus is ABOVE every other name. You have substantiated this by admitting that “YHWH” and “God” may be shared while Christ alone is “Lord.”
thinker
I am saying that there are many gods and many lords, but for US, there is one God the father and one lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.Think of it like this. Pharaoh made Joseph lord over his kingdom.
Josephs power was above all, but he was still subject to the Pharaoh.Joseph being lord over the Pharaoh's kingdom took nothing away from the Pharaoh himself. Joseph was his right-hand man.
So you deny that the Father has exalted Jesus and has installed Him as God on the throne?“But to the Son He says, Your throne O God is forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of YOUR kingdom.”
You say that the Father is your God. Yet you reject that He has installed His Christ as God on the throne.
WJ has effectively disrproved you. You claim that there is only one true God at the same time acknowledging that Christ is also a true God. If there is only one true God then Christ would be a false God.
Your confusion is the result of failing to see that Christ's Father has installed Chrst as God on the throne since then. If the Father is your God as you claim then accept it.
Joseph and Pharoah are not analogous to Christs session at the Father's right and. Sorry.
thinker
Hi JackTrue, Joseph is not a good example because Joseph was ruler over all of Egypt by proxy.
However, Christ is the builder and maker of his house and sits “In the throne” with the Father and is worshipped.
In the Hebrew faith this would be idolatry. And in fact I believe those who believe that Jesus is not God sitting in God's throne (Heb 1:8), are committing Idolatry for they are creating a false image of the “Image of the invisible God”, which is Jesus who is God made visible.
The “Right Hand of God” is a metophor of his equality with the Father.
WJ
WJ……….Quite wrong , GOD HIMSELF is the ROCK that BUILDS the CHURCH. AS Jesus SAID. “Peter who do you say i am (response) you are the Christ (Anointed ONE) the (SON) of the living GOD, Jesus responds Blessed are you Simon Bar Jonna because flesh and Blood (Jesus was flesh and Blood) has (NOT) revealed this unto you , But my FATHER who is (IN) Heaven has (REVEALED) it unto you, and I say unto you, you are Peter, (another words Jesus knew also who Peter was by that same revelation power), and Upon THIS ROCK I shall build the Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Now who and What was the (ROCK) was It Jesus (NO) was It Peter (NO) It was the POWER of GOD to get inside a persons MINDS and REVEAL the TRUTH TO. That is the ROCK that Jesus was going to use to Build the Church with. It WAS GOD HIMSELF. How simple and clear can it GET GOD the FATHER is the (ONLY) true ROCK> IMO
gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
