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Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 26 2009,04:22) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 26 2009,03:54) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 26 2009,03:48) Quote (georg @ Sep. 26 2009,03:38) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 25 2009,19:28) Quote (georg @ Sep. 25 2009,14:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2009,13:28) Hi CA,
Your church has no connection with the body of Christ.
A vain and pompous irrelevance that men take too seriously.
You are so right Nick
Math. 15:9 ” But in vauin do they worship Me, teaching for doctrine the commandment of men.”
Irene
Irene,
You quote scripture out of context. It was the unbelieving Jews who rejected Christ that were worshiping God “in vain.” How can trinitarians who exalt Christ be spoken of when it was those who rejected Christ that Jesus was talking about?
Just another example of an anti-trinitarian mishandling scripture.
thinker
no thinker whatever was written in thatr times is also for us.
if you want to believe tht, then you have to do away with alot of Scriptures. No my friend. That is about the untruth that you have come up with. Blame eveything on the Jews.
The Caholic Church is worshipping in vain. From the third centutry on. I know I was one of them. And I will say this till I die, THANK YOU GOD FOR CALLING US OUT OF THAT CHURCH.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
I was not blaming everything on the Jews. I was simply saying their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah is what rendered their worship “vain” to God. Had they accepted their Messiah that would not have been true of them. Since trinitarians accept Jesus as the Messiah then how can Jesus' statement apply to them? God accepts the worship of anyone who honors His Son!All you prove is that you have an axe to grind with Catholicism and that you are not a fair judge of things. So throw away your Bible because it was the Catholic Church that decided that the books contained therein are the word of God. I am not a Catholic but I will still give credit where credit is due. The fact that you can't do this tells a lot about you.
Grow up!
thinker
Jack, you say “God accepts the worship of anyone who honors His Son!“Could you explain to me WHO you think the GOD is, in your above statement?
Jodi Lee,
I am not going to explain it for you again. One's view of God is measured by his view of His Son. Jesus said that the Father has committed all judgment to Him IN ORDER THAT all men should honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father.When I was 14 years old I lived with my aunt and uncle for a year. One day after I came home from school I had an altercation with my aunt and I started lipping off disrespectfully to her big time. Well, my uncle came storming out of the bathroom. I had not known he was home from work early that day. He picked me up with one fist and slammed me against the wall. I was pasted to the wall airborne.
My uncle drew back the other fist and with a scary grimace on his face he said to me, “If you don't respect my wife you don't respect me. And if you don't respect me I'll beat the s__t out of you.”
If men don't honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father then they don't honor the Father and they are in danger.
Do trinitarians honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father? You bet they do. So how can they be among those who worship God “in vain” as Irene has wrongfully said? And where did Irene get the idea that all judgment was committed to Irene? The word “honor” means “to prize or value.” The “even as” would indicate “to prize or value EQUALLY.”
thinker
Your confusing Jack.First you say you are not going to explain it to me again, well I'd like to know when you have ever explained it, I am more confused now about your belief more then ever. I have been asking ALL week for trinitarians to explain simple questions and they have yet to answer them.
You say you're not going to explain it again, but then you clearly right after that attempt to explain it.
I posted this on another thread,
John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
Once again we see God distinguished SOLELY as the FATHER, and we see Jesus distinguished as a MAN, the Christ.
Would not the Father be seeking for people to worship God as the trinity? Why does He call for people to worship HIM separately?
Scripture tells us why..
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
There is NO god that exists made up of three persons. There is ONE God, known as the Father!
The Father wants us to worship Him as the One True God of whom are ALL things and by whom ALL things exist.
Ac 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Our Father wants us to know that Jes
us is the Christ of whom He made and that He has given him the role Adam lost, which was to be the head honcho over heaven and earth!Our Father wants us to worship Him as the ONE and ONLY TRUE God of whom ALL things consist (even the CHRIST), and He wants us to worship our brother Jesus as our King and master whom He made.
Thinker……..Doesn't these things Jodi is quoting trouble you even a little, come out of those false teachings of the TRINITY thinker.
gene
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 25 2009,13:05) Thinker……..Doesn't these things Jodi is quoting trouble you even a little, come out of those false teachings of the TRINITY thinker. gene
GeneNone of those scriptures contradict the Trinitarian view!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 26 2009,05:57) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 25 2009,13:05) Thinker……..Doesn't these things Jodi is quoting trouble you even a little, come out of those false teachings of the TRINITY thinker. gene
GeneNone of those scriptures contradict the Trinitarian view!
WJ
Huh?The trinitarian view is that there is ONE God who is three persons.
The above scriptures directly say that the ONE true God is the ONE person the Father. Your denial of that fact from scripture, just show how truly BLIND you unfortunately are.
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 26 2009,04:22) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 26 2009,03:54) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 26 2009,03:48) Quote (georg @ Sep. 26 2009,03:38) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 25 2009,19:28) Quote (georg @ Sep. 25 2009,14:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2009,13:28) Hi CA,
Your church has no connection with the body of Christ.
A vain and pompous irrelevance that men take too seriously.
You are so right Nick
Math. 15:9 ” But in vauin do they worship Me, teaching for doctrine the commandment of men.”
Irene
Irene,
You quote scripture out of context. It was the unbelieving Jews who rejected Christ that were worshiping God “in vain.” How can trinitarians who exalt Christ be spoken of when it was those who rejected Christ that Jesus was talking about?Just another example of an anti-trinitarian mishandling scripture.
thinker
no thinker whatever was written in thatr times is also for us.
if you want to believe tht, then you have to do away with alot of Scriptures. No my friend. That is about the untruth that you have come up with. Blame eveything on the Jews.
The Caholic Church is worshipping in vain. From the third centutry on. I know I was one of them. And I will say this till I die, THANK YOU GOD FOR CALLING US OUT OF THAT CHURCH.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
I was not blaming everything on the Jews. I was simply saying their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah is what rendered their worship “vain” to God. Had they accepted their Messiah that would not have been true of them. Since trinitarians accept Jesus as the Messiah then how can Jesus' statement apply to them? God accepts the worship of anyone who honors His Son!All you prove is that you have an axe to grind with Catholicism and that you are not a fair judge of things. So throw away your Bible because it was the Catholic Church that decided that the books contained therein are the word of God. I am not a Catholic but I will still give credit where credit is due. The fact that you can't do this tells a lot about you.
Grow up!
thinker
Jack, you say “God accepts the worship of anyone who honors His Son!“Could you explain to me WHO you think the GOD is, in your above statement?
Jodi Lee,
I am not going to explain it for you again. One's view of God is measured by his view of His Son. Jesus said that the Father has committed all judgment to Him IN ORDER THAT all men should honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father.When I was 14 years old I lived with my aunt and uncle for a year. One day after I came home from school I had an altercation with my aunt and I started lipping off disrespectfully to her big time. Well, my uncle came storming out of the bathroom. I had not known he was home from work early that day. He picked me up with one fist and slammed me against the wall. I was pasted to the wall airborne.
My uncle drew back the other fist and with a scary grimace on his face he said to me, “If you don't respect my wife you don't respect me. And if you don't respect me I'll beat the s__t out of you.”
If men don't honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father then they don't honor the Father and they are in danger.
Do trinitarians honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father? You bet they do. So how can they be among those who worship God “in vain” as Irene has wrongfully said? And where did Irene get the idea that all judgment was committed to Irene? The word “honor” means “to prize or value.” The “even as” would indicate “to prize or value EQUALLY.”
thinker
THAT was a powerful story! I don't know how well honoring the Son and by extension the Father is a good argument for their unity in essence. But it sure was a powerful story.I honored my mother EVEN AS I honored my father.
I honor my children EVEN AS I honor the President.
Is the point that no one can be honored EVEN AS God unless they are God?
Why?
A prince can be honored as a King with his father's permission, and by mere relation. Why cannot Jesus be honored as the Father in this way?
Hi CA,
Is Jesus actually his own Father in another form?
So Who was the God Who was in him?[2Cor5.19]Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 26 2009,10:47) THAT was a powerful story! I don't know how well honoring the Son and by extension the Father is a good argument for their unity in essence. But it sure was a powerful story.
Being equal to something means you are like something and it is a given that you are not that which you are equal to.If Jesus has any equality with God, then that means that he is NOT God.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 26 2009,11:09) If Jesus has any equality with God, then that means that he is NOT God.
Oh my goodness!This sounds like an original idea to me! Or perhaps I've just never heard it put this way.
Sounds true.
Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 26 2009,10:55) I honored my mother EVEN AS I honored my father. I honor my children EVEN AS I honor the President.
Is the point that no one can be honored EVEN AS God unless they are God?
Why?
A prince can be honored as a King with his father's permission, and by mere relation. Why cannot Jesus be honored as the Father in this way?
Yeah, I don't want to be presumptive and act like the logic police. But that argument didn't work so good did it?Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 26 2009,11:15) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 26 2009,11:09) If Jesus has any equality with God, then that means that he is NOT God.
Oh my goodness!This sounds like an original idea to me! Or perhaps I've just never heard it put this way.
Sounds true.
Love,
Mandy
I think this depends on our criteria for “equality.” Here's what I mean:No one is equal to me. Jim or Tom could never equal me. I'm unique in a variety of ways.
Now this is different than understanding “equality” in the sense of “all men are created equal” in the American Declaration of Independence. That statement would tend to make a statement refuting the idea that some men are born with saddles on their backs and others were born to ride them. Different concept of equality.
So we would have to define terms.
Right away, though, t8's statement isn't specific enough for me to logically prove it true or false.
How come that it is so hard to believe that our Heavenly Father is greater then His Son. Even Jesus Himself said so.
John 14:28…My Father is greatee then I.”
Now thinker wants us to believe that it is so before He was a man. But not now since He is seated next to the Father. I don't think so.
Jesus is our Mediator and we go through Him to go to the Father and ask whatever we like. If it His will, He will give it to us. Does that make Jesus equal with the Fasther? Not that I can see it.Irene
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 26 2009,10:55) I honored my mother EVEN AS I honored my father. I honor my children EVEN AS I honor the President.
Is the point that no one can be honored EVEN AS God unless they are God?
Why?
A prince can be honored as a King with his father's permission, and by mere relation. Why cannot Jesus be honored as the Father in this way?
Hi Sis Mandy,
Greetings to you. I could not follow this post of yours fully. As you have quoted “why not Jesus can be honoured as Father?”
Is it so? Jesus can be honoured as the Son of God but he can not be honured as Father too. This is where Trinitarians are caught in the mystery. I don't think we should be trapped in this dilemma.Peace and love to you
AdamQuote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 26 2009,12:26) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 26 2009,10:55) I honored my mother EVEN AS I honored my father. I honor my children EVEN AS I honor the President.
Is the point that no one can be honored EVEN AS God unless they are God?
Why?
A prince can be honored as a King with his father's permission, and by mere relation. Why cannot Jesus be honored as the Father in this way?
Yeah, I don't want to be presumptive and act like the logic police. But that argument didn't work so good did it?
No, it didn't!
Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 26 2009,17:49) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 26 2009,10:55) I honored my mother EVEN AS I honored my father. I honor my children EVEN AS I honor the President.
Is the point that no one can be honored EVEN AS God unless they are God?
Why?
A prince can be honored as a King with his father's permission, and by mere relation. Why cannot Jesus be honored as the Father in this way?
Hi Sis Mandy,
Greetings to you. I could not follow this post of yours fully. As you have quoted “why not Jesus can be honoured as Father?”
Is it so? Jesus can be honoured as the Son of God but he can not be honured as Father too. This is where Trinitarians are caught in the mystery. I don't think we should be trapped in this dilemma.Peace and love to you
Adam
Hey bro – long time no chat!!I'll tell you why you couldn't follow it……I was on the phone, and getting ready to run out the door! I was trying to do too many things at once!
I can't even make sense of it!! That's pretty bad, huh?
Love ya,
MandyQuote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 26 2009,12:31) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 26 2009,11:15) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 26 2009,11:09) If Jesus has any equality with God, then that means that he is NOT God.
Oh my goodness!This sounds like an original idea to me! Or perhaps I've just never heard it put this way.
Sounds true.
Love,
Mandy
I think this depends on our criteria for “equality.” Here's what I mean:No one is equal to me. Jim or Tom could never equal me. I'm unique in a variety of ways.
Now this is different than understanding “equality” in the sense of “all men are created equal” in the American Declaration of Independence. That statement would tend to make a statement refuting the idea that some men are born with saddles on their backs and others were born to ride them. Different concept of equality.
So we would have to define terms.
Right away, though, t8's statement isn't specific enough for me to logically prove it true or false.
I think in order to be equal with anything or anyone, one ….Oh, forget it. This is too deep for me to uncover. I'll let you boys have a go at it.
Chips and dip, anyone? (mingle, mingle…heehee).
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 26 2009,11:15) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 26 2009,11:09) If Jesus has any equality with God, then that means that he is NOT God.
Oh my goodness!This sounds like an original idea to me! Or perhaps I've just never heard it put this way.
Sounds true.
Love,
Mandy
Sounds like double talk to me. See Strong's on the word “honor.” To “honor” means “to prize or value.” The “even so” indicates “to prize or value EQUALLY.” To prize Jesus EQUALLY with the Father would mean to regard Him inasmuch as you regard the Father.This destroys Irene's false charge that those who regard Jesus equally with the Father worship God “in vain.” One must first reject Jesus to worship God in vain. Irene unjustly puts trinitarians in the class of those who rejected Jesus and spit on Him and put Him to death. Shame on Irene for placing herself in such a high judicial position. And shame on her too for grossly misrepresenting Jesus' statement “they worship God in vain” when Jesus was clearly referring to those who rejected Him as their Messiah. Every time Irene speaks on this issue I see only Catholic bashing. Objectivity never comes from her keyboard. Trash your Bible Irene. It was the Catholic Church that decided which books of the Bible are the word of God. There were many others considered and rejected. Btw, though I am not a Catholic I must say that Irene's and Nick's constant Catholic bashing is getting on my nerves.
One more point, the “even as” statement gives us a CLEAR definition as to how the Son is to be honored. If Jesus is not to be honored EQUALLY with the Father by us all then it's all subjective.
thinker
Hi CA,
You you are the one able to establish truth?
Yet you have only yourself and your masters to guide you.“Thy Word is truth”
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 26 2009,10:55) I honored my mother EVEN AS I honored my father. I honor my children EVEN AS I honor the President.
Is the point that no one can be honored EVEN AS God unless they are God?
Why?
A prince can be honored as a King with his father's permission, and by mere relation. Why cannot Jesus be honored as the Father in this way?
Mandy,
Jesus clearly meant that all men were to give Him the same religious homage that they give the Father. All judgment has been committed to Him for that purpose. I am disappointed that you convoluted the issue the way you did.
thinker
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