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Quote (Cato @ July 02 2009,19:04) My point was that Elohim are not angels, but equates more closely with gods (note the small g), this supports arguments that the early Hebrews were essentially henotheistic, where God is essentially an OverGod or as mentioned elsewhere God of gods. So how can you have the title of God of gods if there are no gods.
Cato,That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Where in Scripture does it say that there are gods above angels that are lesser than the one true God? You are totally twisting the Scripture to fit your anti-trinitarian beliefs.
TC27
If it is absurd and perhaps it is, I am only pointing out what I see. I think there is ample evidence to suggest that OT scripture supports the existence of what they call gods and that these so called gods are apparently neither human, angels or demons. So what are they, I certainly don't know, but it is interesting to speculate; perhaps they are all imaginary. Yet if that is true many Biblical versus relating the Almighty to these so called gods then would be rendered rather meaningless. I approach this line out of curiosity not out of any anti-trinitarian agenda. To ask a simple question like what does the appellation God of gods means if there are no such entities is hardly twisting scripture.
Quote (thethinker @ July 03 2009,05:39) Quote (Cato @ July 02 2009,02:43) Perhaps the plural refers to other gods of a lesser nature? Elohim are not angels so who are they? We have had discussions on evidence of henotheism in the OT before. Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,…”
Ps 82:1 God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”
Dan 11:36 The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods…
Jud 11:24 Will you not take what your god Chemosh gives you? Likewise, whatever the LORD our God has given us, we will possess
Why in the Ten commandments was it Thou shall have no other gods “before me” rather then there are no other gods, or you shall have no other gods? Sounds like henotheism to me.
Cato,
Elohim said, “Let US make man in OUR image.” Then it says, “In the image OF GOD He made them.” If Elohim are angels then we have been created in their image too. But the Bible says that we are created in the image of God alone.thinker
My understanding as far as in the beginning when man was said to be made in the image of God is that we, like God, desire to create, design and accomplish. We like God have a passion to achieve and feel glory for accomplishments.However man must be able to fulfill those passions in a righteous manner, and in order to do that we must LEARN and exemplify YHWH's righteous character.
Unlike other creatures YHWH created on earth, we have a knowledge of our individuality. YHWH can't instantaneously create a righteous man. We are the products of the accumulation of knowledge of which YHWH has spent thousands of years building up. We must learn righteous character from God's Spirit.
I would like to say more but I've got to get going. Headed to the river with the fam, to enjoy a few beers in the hot sun! =)
To All…….John 1:1…> in the beginning was the word (intelligent utterance) and the word (intelligent utterance )was with Elohim (Powers) and the word (intelligence utterance) was Elohim (POWERS). This intelligence is what enlightens every man coming into the world.There are seven Spirits (intellects) making up one Elohim (GOD) called the seven spirits of GOD. These are the (US) spoken of in Geneses. The one LORD Controls all the Elohim, (Powers) That we call GOD. Man has be given some Powers or Elohim , but there is only (ONE) TRUE ELOHIM (GOD) as Jesus said. The Word GOD is a UNI-PLURAL WORD, and Simply means (POWERS)> IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
John 1:1 tells us very plainly that the Word is God and the Word was with God. It goes along with
Hebrew 1:8 Does that mean that He is equal with the Father and a trinity. No! Can I prove that! Yes!It is not just a intelligent of a being, either. If that would be then that would become flesh? You see how that does not compute!!!
The Word became flesh, who became Jesus.
God has given us a brain to think with and so lets use it. We do know that the Father had another name, and so does Jesus. If you use God as a tittle it works out for you. Mr. Armstrong used to say that We are a Family, that too works out.
But interpreting the Word to something other then what is written, is adding to it. And we do not want to do that, do we?
Ephesians 4:6 Tells us that the Father God is above all, and in us all.Also by Jesus own word in
John `4:28 ……for My Father is greater then I.
In closing I want to say what t8 said about all:” The Father is the Almighty God, while Jesus is the Mighty God. I take that IMO
Peace abd Love Irene
Quote (gollamudi @ July 02 2009,02:18) Hi brother WJ,
I appreciate your response to my post. I do know that There is no God but God the Father (1 Cor 8:6). But I was asking you about Jesus being called God by Jews(alleged) or by God himself(as per your post). How about this interpretation of scriptures by Jesus himself in Jn 10:33″We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
I believe if at all God called Jesus as “God” it should be understood in the light of Jesus' own interpretation of Ps 82:6
Peace and love to you
Adam
Hi GMSo if it is to be understood in light of Ps 82, then you are saying Jesus was identifying himself with wicked kings and judges, right?
Not at all what Jesus meant.
WJ
Hi brother WJ,
It is not my interpretation but of our Lord Jesus in John 10. You think that he is wrong. God is the title given even to judges and principalities. Lord Jesus who is our Messiah King is given the title by Godhimself as the judge of mankind. But it doesn't equate him with One and only God the Father (jn 17:3 & 1 Cor 8:6). The confusion of many Christians on Jesus being called God does not confuse the Jewish Monotheism.Peace to you
AdamQuote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 06 2009,23:21) Jesus is God
Yes Jesus is God. So what are you saying, that there is a trinity? Nein, nein. No No.
Prove it!!
Irene1 John 5:21 says that he is the true God.
“And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.”
Quote (gsilva72 @ July 17 2009,12:30) 1 John 5:21 says that he is the true God. “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.”
1John21 in my Bible says this ” Little Children, keep yourself from idols.”
And what are you truing to say, anyway?
In John 1:1 we read that the Word was God and was with God. In verse 14 The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
God the Father is the eternal God who existed always, He had no beginning and no end. He us the eternal God. Jesus died for us and has taken the death Penalty away. And eternal life is a free gift from God, by faith in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior He is our Mediator between God and us. So we can go to the Throne of God and ask for the forgiveness for our sins.
One more thing I want to say to you, God is a tittle. In O.T. time there were many Gods. Satan too is called the God of this earth.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (gsilva72 @ July 17 2009,15:39) meant 1 john 5:20
So if the Son is the eternal God, then who is the Almighty Father. Jesus had a beginning, but the Father did not. Our Heavenly Father has always been eternal, while the Son of God had a beginning. And I gave you the prove in my post before this one. Jesus now ha eternal live and we too will. The prove is also in my other post.
Why do you say this, what significance does that hare?
IreneIt has significance. The Bible says that the word was God. John 1:1. Then 1 John 5:20 goes on to say Jesus is the true God and eternal life. It doesn't say he is a God and eternal life. It says he is the true God and eternal life.
Quote (gsilva72 @ July 18 2009,02:29) It has significance. The Bible says that the word was God. John 1:1. Then 1 John 5:20 goes on to say Jesus is the true God and eternal life. It doesn't say he is a God and eternal life. It says he is the true God and eternal life.
Yes, Jesus now has eternal live and we will too one day. That does not make Him above the Heavenly Father or equal with Him. There is no trinity. I just finished a post in the Message Tread under Church, look it up. So all other Scriptures that I gave are false? And remember that God the Father is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. And one more thing, the Catholic Church has added several Scriptures in order to foul people to believing the trinity. And millions don't even read the Bible, neither did we, when we belonged.
Read up on Ancient History and you will see……Are you saying the scriptures that I just gave you are false? 1 John 5:20 doesn't just say he is eternal life. It says he is the True God. Even Thomas declared “my Lord and my God”. Thomas declared Jesus as God. This is why John 1:1 says “and the word was God.” I'm not saying any scripture is false. The Bible says, ” Thy word is truth”
Hi GS,
Then who is the God of Jesus and us he was returning to in Jn 20.?
I think you have misunderstood the words of truth.The word says that God sent forth his son born of a woman born under the law. But it also says in 1 John 5:20 that he is the true God and eternal life. No interpretation needed. That is what 1 John 5:20. You can debate it all you want, but that is Just what it says.
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