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Quote (Gene @ May 23 2009,15:30) Kerwin……… What confusing about it. How much plainer can one GET. (A WORD) IS AN EXPRESSION OF INTELLECT, cant get more simpler then that, that is a basic and a fundamental fact. If that is in error please explain what a (WORD) is then. Saying something is confusing when it is not is deceptive. IMO peace and love…………………………gene
Gene,
Your “intellect” theory is confusing because it makes the Word non-personal. Don't you get it?thinker
Thinker ………brother how do you figure that, The Word of GOD is very personal to me and all who love (HIS) WORDS. They are the expression of HIS mind and will and intellect to us. Read what Paul said bout the WORD and How a person must recieve it in order to be saved, and that in order for that to happen a preacher must be sent , to speak those WORDS, But it is GOD who opens up there MIND to THEM, otherwise they just go over there heads and they don't Get it. Jesus said no man (can come) unto me except the FATHER draw HIM, It takes GOD to give the awareness of the truth His word are imparting to us. So How do you say that is not Personal? You say it is (MY) intellect theory , so what is a (WORD) to you then if not the EXPRESSION of ONE INTELLECT, then what is a WORD? Brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Gene If the Word is in John 1:1 is Intellect, then who is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us, in verse 14
IreneIrene…….A word can not become FLESH, but it can come to be (IN) Flesh. Common sense would let you know that. A Word is SPIRIT as Jesus Said it was. Jesus never said He was the Word in fact He said the words He spoke were (NOT) HIS. So how could He be the Word itself then. Jesus Spoke GODS words to us Not His , The Father was in HIM doing His WORK not Jesus' works or words. “For the son of man can do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF”> “The FATHER in ME HE DOTH THE WORKS”. WE must learn to believe what Jesus Himself said. IMO
peace and love……………….gene
Gene It says that the Word was God, and that the Word was in the beginning with God. That Makes two. Then that Word became flesh that is what it says, are you denying what it says? You are right that Jesus always spoke what the Father wanted Him too. Why John calls it Word is because He spoke through out the Old Testament time, the Fathers Words. Nobody has heard the Father or seen His shape.
If you read on it also says that He was the light of men.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Cindy @ May 24 2009,01:50) GD Where in India do you live?
Irene
Hi Sis Irene & brother Gene,
Brother King Dhanasingh is from Chennai the same city where I am from. Yes I know him very well. He is also very much interested to know many things on Trinity. Hope he will contribute to this website.Peace and love to you
AdamQuote (Gene @ May 25 2009,13:18) Thinker ………brother how do you figure that, The Word of GOD is very personal to me and all who love (HIS) WORDS. They are the expression of HIS mind and will and intellect to us. Read what Paul said bout the WORD and How a person must recieve it in order to be saved, and that in order for that to happen a preacher must be sent , to speak those WORDS, But it is GOD who opens up there MIND to THEM, otherwise they just go over there heads and they don't Get it. Jesus said no man (can come) unto me except the FATHER draw HIM, It takes GOD to give the awareness of the truth His word are imparting to us. So How do you say that is not Personal? You say it is (MY) intellect theory , so what is a (WORD) to you then if not the EXPRESSION of ONE INTELLECT, then what is a WORD? Brother. peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Gene,
Now you know what I meant. Come on! Your “intellect” theory means that the Word was not a person. The Word was indeed a person. All things were made by HIM. It says that the Word became flesh and we beheld HIS glory. You are one confused dude.thinker
Gene said:
Quote A word can not become FLESH, but it can come to be (IN) Flesh. Common sense would let you know that. Gene,
Your are contradicting yourself. There is no difference between becoming flesh and coming to be in flesh. To become flesh means to come to be in flesh.Your “intellect” theory has become confusing to you as it is to the rest of us. You're now speaking in circles.
thinker
Thimker………So are your words (FLESH) i doubt it. Flesh and blood can't inter into the Kingdom of GOD , but words can. Please tell me you are able to understand this brother. You are Flesh , but your words are Spirit. AS Jesus Said. ” The word i am telling you (ARE) Spirit”, do you see flesh and blood there. Believe and understand what Jesus said Brother.
peace and love to you…………………….gene
Gene The thinker is so right. There are several Scriptures that show us that Jesus preexisted before the World was.
Col. 1:15
Rev. 3:14
John 1:1
to deny this Scriptures is not wise to do.IMO
IreneIrene………..Give me (ONE) good reason for GOD to take His life, rebirth Him and then Kill Him again. That would make (NO) sense for GOD to do it that way. Believe what Peter said , He was (foreordained) (BUT) was (manifested) in our time. Peter explained it right , Come out of the false teaching of the Apostate Church. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ May 26 2009,12:15) Irene………..Give me (ONE) good reason for GOD to take His life, rebirth Him and then Kill Him again. That would make (NO) sense for GOD to do it that way. Believe what Peter said , He was (foreordained) (BUT) was (manifested) in our time. Peter explained it right , Come out of the false teaching of the Apostate Church. IMO peace and love……………………..gene
Gene What are you talking about, God did not take Jesus life.
He came to earth to save us from eternal death. He gave up His glory to become a man. John 17:5 tells us that He then went back to His Father and took on that glory again. Funny We never were in a Apostate Church, don't even know what kind that is. But you need to really study
Col. 1:15-18
Rev. 3:14
John 1:1
In John 1:3 says that He made everything. So how can He do that if He was not there from the beginning, before the world was.
Peace and Love IreneIrene………..What was the point of Jesus coming from a perfect state , walk perfect and then die , How could He tell us to overcome (LIKE) He did if He was already Perfect, how could we ever overcome as he did then. Seeing he was really nothing really like us. But if GOD took an ordinary Human being (EXACTLY) like us in (EVERY) Way, and perfected Him, we can also see that we to can come into perfection the same way he did. The apostate church does nit want you to believe that, it want you to separate Jesus from you likeness. So it does this by creating a doctrine of Trinity and preexistence, so you and I really can,t really have the same Hope as Jesus in Us. Can't you see that. IMO
peace and love…………………………….gene
Gene It says that all have fallen short of the glory of God. Do really believe because Christ was among us at that time, that He too was short of the glory of God? He still remembered what His Father had taught Him in the beginning, otherwise IMO He would have sinned just like us. But He knew what was at stake, and did not. That takes nothing away from how He was tested, as we are. He is the only one that did not sin. In John 17:5 He said this ” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” You see He knew what He had been before.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (thethinker @ May 26 2009,01:53) Gene said: Quote A word can not become FLESH, but it can come to be (IN) Flesh. Common sense would let you know that. Gene,
Your are contradicting yourself. There is no difference between becoming flesh and coming to be in flesh. To become flesh means to come to be in flesh.Your “intellect” theory has become confusing to you as it is to the rest of us. You're now speaking in circles.
thinker
Hi brother Thinker,
If you believe that the “word” was another person with whom the God was with you make two Gods in the beginning as per Jn 1:1. It is againist Jewish Monotheism which our Lord believed and preached. The “word/Logos” is masculien therefore the translators have often shown “he” instead of “it”. Here is the correct translation of Jn 1:1-151 In [a] beginning was the Logic/plan (for salvation), and the Logic/plan pertained to Elohim (G_d), and Elohim was the Logic. 2 This was in [a] beginning, [and] pertained to Elohim. 3 All things through it came into being and apart from it came into being not even one thing, which has come into being. 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men; 5 and the light in the darkness shines, and the darkness does not overcome it.
6 There came a man, sent from Elohim, his name was John. 7 This man, came for a witness, that he might be testifying concerning the light, that all might be believing through it. 8 He was not the light, but that he might be testifying concerning the light. 9 The true light which enlightens every man was coming into the creation (world), 10 was in the creation, and the creation on account of him came to be, yet the creation did not perceive him. 11 With respect to what was his own, he came, and yet his own did not receive him. 12 But, to as many as received him, he gave to them authority, children of Elohim to become, (to those believing into his name); 13 who not from bloods; nor from a natural fleshly desire, not even out of [the] will of men, but out of Elohim were born.
14 And so, the Logic/plan(for salvation) came into flesh, [a physical body] and tented [tabernacled] among us, and we gazed upon his esteem, (esteem as an only brought-forth from a father), full of charisma and truth. 15 John witnesses concerning him and yelled out saying: “This was of whom I said; he coming after me, before me has become; for compared to me, his position ranks foremost.”
Please see the above translation nowhere it is assumed that the “word” was another being also God besides another being called God. This makes Jn 1:1 polytheism.
Please think over and agree with our brother Gene.
Peace to you
AdamAdam said:
Quote 1 In [a] beginning was the Logic/plan (for salvation), and the Logic/plan pertained to Elohim (G_d), and Elohim was the Logic. 2 This was in [a] beginning, [and] pertained to Elohim. 3 All things through it came into being and apart from it came into being not even one thing, which has come into being. 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men; 5 and the light in the darkness shines, and the darkness does not overcome it. Adam,
Go to the “Elohim” thread in the “truth or tradition” forum. The Hebrew “Elohim” is plural. Elohim said “Let US make man in OUR image. God is a plural unity. John 1 does NOT say that in “it” was life. Verse 14 says this,Quote “And the Word was made flesh and we beheld HIS glory, the glory which is that of the Father's ONLY BEGOTTEN full of grace and truth The Word is clearly called the Father's “only begotten”. Jesus is also called God's “only begotten”. If the Word and Jesus are not the same then neither can be God's ONLY begotten. You must start holding Gene accountable to comment on Scripture in context.
How can the Word and Jesus both be God's ONLY begotten if they are not one and the same?
Jesus said that the Father was the “only true God”. Gene rants on and on about this. But Jesus also prayed to the Father to glorify him with the glory He had with the Father BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN. Gene never talks about this statement. Jesus said that the Father was the only true God when He still existed in the form of a servant. But He has been glorified since then. We must distinguish between the servant Jesus and the glorified Jesus.
The Father said that the glorified Jesus is “God” (Heb. 1:8) If the Father is your only true God and He said that the glorified Jesus is “God”, then you better agree or else you call your only true God a liar.
thinker
Quote (gollamudi @ May 26 2009,22:53) Hi Thinker,
Please be careful about your words on the only true God.
Adam,
The “only true God” exalted Jesus to His right hand and then called him by the name “God” (Heb. 1:8). So you should be careful what you say about Jesus. I know you don't want to call the only true God a liar.thinker
Thinker……Jesus said THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD, so it was (NOT) HIM. Do you believe Jesus' own words or NOT, If you do you will believe that there is (ONLY) ONE (TRUE) GOD. The LORD said YOU shall have (NO OTHER) GOD'S besides ME. He also said (I) am GOD and there is (NO) OTHER. Come out of that TRINITARIAN CONFUSION Brother. IMO
peace and love……………….gene
Gene If you would understand that God is only a tittle you would be able to see that the Word in John is a person. It says that the Word was God and was with God. That to me is two person's not one. We know that the Fathers name is Jehovah, and Jesus name was Yeshua. The reason it says God is because the translators where in aw of Jehovah and Yeshua, that they did not want to misspell all.
Peace and Love Irene
P.S. if you should not agree with this, I will not debate any further with it, because I cannot see it your way.
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