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Amen to that post brother Gene. I don't know how long this thread will continue like this. We are going round and around the Mulberry tree again and again. Nobody wants to step away from his place and try the truth in others interpretation. I am really fed up with this type of discussion on Heavennet.
Thanks and love to you
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2009,13:19) G,
The word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
Dictionary.com reads:Quote word
/wɜrd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [wurd] Show IPA
–noun1. a unit of language, consisting of one or more spoken sounds or their written representation, that functions as a principal carrier of meaning. Words are composed of one or more morphemes and are either the smallest units susceptible of independent use or consist of two or three such units combined under certain linking conditions, as with the loss of primary accent that distinguishes blackʹbirdʹ from blackʹ birdʹ. Words are usually separated by spaces in writing, and are distinguished phonologically, as by accent, in many languages.
2. words,
a. speech or talk: to express one's emotion in words; Words mean little when action is called for.
b. the text or lyrics of a song as distinguished from the music.
c. contentious or angry speech; a quarrel: We had words and she walked out on me.
3. a short talk or conversation: Marston, I'd like a word with you.
4. an expression or utterance: a word of warning.
5. warrant, assurance, or promise: I give you my word I'll be there.
6. news; tidings; information: We received word of his death.
7. a verbal signal, as a password, watchword, or countersign.
8. an authoritative utterance, or command: His word was law.
9. Also called machine word. Computers. a string of bits, characters, or bytes treated as a single entity by a computer, particularly for numeric purposes.
10. (initial capital letter) Also called the Word, the Word of God.
a. the Scriptures; the Bible.
b. the Logos.
c. the message of the gospel of Christ.
11. a proverb or motto.
–verb (used with object)
12. to express in words; select words to express; phrase: to word a contract with great care.
—Idioms
13. at a word, in immediate response to an order or request; in an instant: At a word they came to take the situation in hand.
14. be as good as one's word, to hold to one's promises.
15. eat one's words, to retract one's statement, esp. with humility: They predicted his failure, but he made them eat their words.
16. have a word, to talk briefly: Tell your aunt that I would like to have a word with her.
17. have no words for, to be unable to describe: She had no words for the sights she had witnessed.
18. in a word, in summary; in short: In a word, there was no comparison. Also, in one word.
19. in so many words, in unequivocal terms; explicitly: She told them in so many words to get out.
20. keep one's word, to fulfill one's promise: I said I'd meet the deadline, and I kept my word.
21. man of his word or woman of her word, a person who can be trusted to keep a promise; a reliable person.
22. my word! or upon my word! (used as an exclamation of surprise or astonishment.)
23. of few words, laconic; taciturn: a woman of few words but of profound thoughts.
24. of many words, talkative; loquacious; wordy: a person of many words but of little wit.
25. put in a good word for, to speak favorably of; commend: He put in a good word for her with the boss. Also, put in a word for.
26. take one at one's word, to take a statement to be literal and true.
27. take the words out of one's mouth, to say exactly what another person was about to say.
28. weigh one's words, to choose one's words carefully in speaking or writing: It was an important message, and he was weighing his words.Origin:
bef. 900; ME, OE; c. D woord, G Wort, ON orth, Goth waurd; akin to OPruss wirds, L verbum word, Lith var̃das nameSynonyms:
4. statement, declaration. 5. pledge. 6. message, report, account. 7. catchword, shibboleth.Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.I am curious to know what definition of “word” you choose to use or are you adding to scripture?
Yes brother Kerwin,
That is the question I am also asking brother Nick and T8 here. Whether a definition of personified “word” or an Ontological definition?Peace to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ April 13 2009,14:02) Yes brother Kerwin,
That is the question I am also asking brother Nick and T8 here. Whether a definition of personified “word” or an Ontological definition?Peace to you
Adam
One problem with personalizing the word “word” is that in order to be consistent you need to take the rest of the passage symbolically.In my experience that is not what those whom choose to personalize the word “word” do but rather they cherry pick one word out of script to say is symbolic while they rest they believe are as stated.
Another inconsistency with their assumption involves John 1:18 where they choose to take Jesus' proximity as a geographical proximity to God while they do not take his ability to see God as literally seeing the invisible God.
Still they must admit these inconsistencies and then seek a consistent message of salvation.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Thanks for such explanation. I also believe that there is no necessity to personify the “word” or interpret it in ontological way. Yes, Jesus is not the graphical image of God instead he is the image of His person but not in homousious way as often trinitarians claim here. Jesus being fully human in nature represented that one God of the Bible to us in full but not in an ontological way of Hellenism. He functioned/functions as God to us. He is the mediator between that one God of the Bible and us men. He is not from different stock but from same stock as we are men. God is alone in His own stock(category). There is no one who can be compared to Him. I hope this should end the dialogue here.May God bless you
AdamHi KW,
You say
“I am curious to know what definition of “word” you choose to use or are you adding to scripture? “When I quote scripture word for word how is that adding to scripture?
Quote (gollamudi @ April 13 2009,16:22) Hi brother Kerwin,
Thanks for such explanation. I also believe that there is no necessity to personify the “word” or interpret it in ontological way. Yes, Jesus is not the graphical image of God instead he is the image of His person but not in homousious way as often trinitarians claim here. Jesus being fully human in nature represented that one God of the Bible to us in full but not in an ontological way of Hellenism. He functioned/functions as God to us. He is the mediator between that one God of the Bible and us men. He is not from different stock but from same stock as we are men. God is alone in His own stock(category). There is no one who can be compared to Him. I hope this should end the dialogue here.May God bless you
Adam
Good explanation!Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2009,17:20) Hi KW,
You say
“I am curious to know what definition of “word” you choose to use or are you adding to scripture? “When I quote scripture word for word how is that adding to scripture?
I was asking about what you believed that scripture meant and not commenting on the scripture itself. I assure you that a person can add to scripture by their interpretation of it. I believe you are doing so when you use John 1:1 in attempt to prove Jesus is preexistent as John states “word” and not “Christ” or something similar that would reasonable be construed to mean Jesus. “Word” does not mean “Christ” or the equivalent though Jesus is the Word of God as Gollamudi explains.Adam and Kerwin………….Amen to that, Changing the meaning of (word ) to mean Jesus or Christ is a pure corruption of scriptures, and what is amazing it doesn't even bother them to do that. They don't even realize if John wanted to Say Jesus He would have simply said it, so they take liberty to talk for John, they want us to assume John was to stupid to Know how to say Jesus, so they say it for him. Pure corruption of scriptures. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,01:53) G, Jesus is the name of a man.
But Christ is not.
Still you seem to want to avoid this issue.
What do you think “Light” means when it is mentioned later in John? Do you believe is also means Jesus or instead that it means the hope of salvation from our sins that is in Jesus? Do you have another interpretation?
Hi KW,
May have been anointed but there is only one Christ, Christ Jesus.
Jn4
25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
27And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?
28The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
God is light.
That light was in Christ making him the light of the world.The light overcomes the darkness in all it's expressions-lies, sin, murder, confusion, death…
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God is light.
That light was in Christ making him the light of the world.The light overcomes the darkness in all it's expressions-lies, sin, murder, confusion, death…
Then why don't you regard “word” as an expression especially since it is in the same passage.
John 1:6-9(NIV) reads
Quote There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
As you can see light=word. If you are correct and word = God or perhaps just the goodness of God then it did come into the world to dwell within Jesus' flesh which is why Jesus is referred to as “God with us” in prophecy.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,05:41) Hi KW,
The Word of God was with God.
The Light was not said to be WITH GOD.
John 1:9-13(NIV) reads:Quote The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
Sure sounds like John is speaking of the word.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,11:41) Hi KW,
Scripture does not say the light was with God in the beginning.
It does not say the Christ or the speculative being that you say was to be created Jesus was with God in the beginning either but that does not stop you from reaching that conclusion.It does state that the light was coming into the world.
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