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Hi KW,
The Spirit is not a prize for true knowledge and good works.The fathering of God led Jesus till adulthood when he was found a clean vessel who had obeyed all the demands of the Law, was innocent of sin and thus found fitting for the infilling of the empowering Spirit.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God does not give His Spirit because of man's works.
What you say hear appears to disagree with this statement you made about Jesus.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The fathering of God led Jesus till adulthood when he was found a clean vessel who had obeyed all the demands of the Law, was innocent of sin and thus found fitting for the infilling of the empowering Spirit.
I am not saying it Jesus received the Holy Spirit because he did good works since you cannot do good works without the spirit or at least a touch of the spirit for all Good comes from God. I am saying that Jesus hungered and thirsted for righteousness from within his mother’s womb and God heard that call and gave him the Holy Spirit. I am not sure he had the Holy Spirit from the point of conception but only because I am not fully aware of how a human being is formed within their mother’s womb.
Do you agree with me that the Holy Spirit descended on and formed him within his mother’s womb?
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The Spirit of God does not naturally reside in any man.
You must be born again.I am not sure that this is true for Jesus because he never did live by the corrupt spirit of man and so had no reason to put it to death unlike everyone else.
Isaiah 42:1(NIV) reads:
Quote “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations.To All…….Jesus now Has the SEVEN SPIRITS (INTELLECTS) or (EYES)of GOD ON HIM with POWER (Horns). Just as it says I (GOD) will put (MY) Spirit on HIM. These seven spirits are (NOW) on Jesus and He shall , by them bring Justice to the Nations. Imo
love and peace to you all…………………..gene
Nick…………Prove where they Barely relate to scriptures then instead of flapping your mouth and labeling me as a Gnostic , which by the way is not a bad word by itself as you try to imply it. If you Know the Teachings of the Gnostic's at the time of John, you would see how what you and some others say are more in line with their teachings then you think. They also believed in the Preexistence of Jesus as you DO. Your lack of scriptural understanding is obvious . IMO
peace and love to you and yours …………………………………..gene
G,
Certainly you have adopted their approach adding your own thoughts and demanding they be used to read truth.Hi KW,.
Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and a woman.
He was not God in flesh but the Son of God.God chose to enable him to obey the law by his careful fathering.
God needed him to remain clean to fulfill the Law so as to use him as a vessel.
It was no prize but he was the second Adam freed from Satan's control and rule for our sakes.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and a woman.
That is not really an answer to the question I asked since I approximately asked “did the Holy Spirit decent on Jesus and when it caused his conception?” Still you previously stated that it was not Jesus that was conceived but merely his body while his “soul” existed previously as some demigod you call the Son of God. I assume you believe he shed his spiritual body and took on a fleshly body.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God chose to enable him to obey the law by his careful fathering.
If he preexisted his conception on this earth then his “careful fathering” must have taken place sometime in the past. Is that your argument or do you think he was fathered twice.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote It was no prize but he was the second Adam freed from Satan's control and rule for our sakes.
But Adam was a human being just like us even though he was conceived in a different manner that we are. Your point is that Jesus is a demigod who chose to take on human flesh which hardly makes him the second Adam since Adam is not a demigod.
Hi KW,
Jesus was a man.
He had to be for our sakes.
Acts 2:22
“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know–Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,Hi KW,
The fathering of Jesus is described in Heb12
1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Those who follow him suffer too.
1Peter2
20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
Nick……if you think Jesus preexisted as a Super being or demigod or angle of some kind then He is not just a man, You talk out of both sides of your mouth , On the one hand you say He preexisted and created everything, and on the Other hand you perceive him as a true man, exactly like were are. Your vacillation is exactly like Trinitarians, Jesus can not be a 100% human man like we are and at the same time the creator of everything. It would be a lie to say He was exactly like us in (EVERY WAY) if He preexisted. IMO
love and peace…………………………………gene
Gene wrote:
Quote If you Know the Teachings of the Gnostic's at the time of John, you would see how what you and some others say are more in line with their teachings then you think. They also believed in the Preexistence of Jesus as you DO. Your lack of scriptural understanding is obvious
I agree that the traditions of the western Christian religion have been infiltrated by Gnosticism and other pagan believes and too many seem to find it hard to shake those beliefs. I also know the Gnostics twisted certain scriptures to back up those scriptures and those scriptures are still being twisted to this day by the ignorant and the corrupt.
Still despite that being true your use of the word “Intellect” is a poor choice since as I have pointed out the Spirit does not give us God's intelligence but rather his emotion of Love. You can call that love godly knowledge as it fills you with the knowledge to do good but I am not sure even that is a good choice of words.
Hi brother Gene,
That is the big problem with many Christians today. We can not blame them. Certain verses in Bible imply such confusion in general. Unless Christianity is read from the eyes of Jewish monotheism every thing seems to be like that only. For a pagan or polytheist believing in Jesus being another God apart from Father is very very easy. He doesn't have any pressure on placing Jesus as another God-being besides the Father. But Often I am afraid to do that. Even you are afraid of that belief I know that. Let God prevail and man fail.Love and peace
AdamHi GM,.
Jesus was a man anointed by God with the Holy Spirit and power[Acts10]
His unique origins are another matter.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The fathering of Jesus is described in Heb12
I am not seeing your point. Please could you clarify it for me with your own words? Thank you.
Nick Hassan:
Quote Those who follow him suffer too.
That I agree with but I fail to see what it has to do with his “unique fathering”.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote His unique origins are another matter.
I don’t see how you reach that conclusion. Perhaps you can explain.
Do you believe Jesus gave up being a demigod with the advantages that implies and became totally human when he was conceived?
Adam……….Correct if they could only believe what God Said ” YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GOD BESIDES ME.” that alone would help clear up things. Presenting Jesus as a preexisting super being or a demigod is pure paganism. Trinitarian and preexistence believers are both in the same camp Just one is more extreme then the other. Nick implying Jesus' birth as a different matter is pure Hogwash, it all ties together in their belief system. IMO
Adam love and peace to you and yours, continue to post and express you incite that GOD is Giving you brother…………………..gene
Kerwin………..So a man Thinket so He (IS). Even the SPIRIT OF TRUTH is about TRUE KNOWLEDGE, replacing wrong Knowledge. God Simply OPENS Our Hearts or Minds to these existing truths, its all about the way we THINK, and ALL thinking is INTELLECT given us, and all intellect has only one source and that is GOD HIMSELF. He renews our thinking (MINDS) by his Spirit (INTELLECT) and that changes us and causes us to love and be more forgiving to ALL. The love of GOD is GODLY intellect Given us and this intellect gives us our emotions.
YOU can tell a mans Heart by HIS words as Jesus said, And His words come out of His thinking and if it is Evil then it defiles the man and if it is of GOD it edifies Him, but either way it comes from his thoughts or Spirit which is his INTELLECT. Again (SO A MAN THINKS SO HE IS). I agree where it says (IF) I have all knowledge and have not love i am a sounding cymbal, however that is a (BIG) (IF) because no one Has all Knowledge except GOD, and I don't believe He is just a sounding cymbal. The point Paul was making was that Just Worldly Knowledge (alone) is not what saves you. But to conclude that Love can function with out some Knowledge is simply not true. Remember we have recieved the Spirit of TRUTH and truth is an operation taking place with in the reasoning of the mind that is our intellects.
And we express this through our words. Jesus said the (WORDS) he spoke (ARE) SPIRIT, and words are and expression of ones intellect, so therefore Spirit is GODLY or WORLDLY intellects. Try a mans word and you will know if he is of GOD, or try the Spirits to see if they are of GOD, same thing. Because from the mouth the heart speaks. IMO
love and peace to you and yours.
Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2009,21:43) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote The fathering of Jesus is described in Heb12
I am not seeing your point. Please could you clarify it for me with your own words? Thank you.
Nick Hassan:
Quote Those who follow him suffer too.
That I agree with but I fail to see what it has to do with his “unique fathering”.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote His unique origins are another matter.
I don’t see how you reach that conclusion. Perhaps you can explain.
Do you believe Jesus gave up being a demigod with the advantages that implies and became totally human when he was conceived?
Hi KW,
Jesus suffered greatly under the hand of God en route to being found sinless.Is 53
1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
G,
How does intellect produce love?
Intellect is only about understanding.
Your view of man and God is very shallow.Have you never known the love of God but just a degree of understanding?
Nick………..Love is the intellect of God. When God gives you His Spirit of TRUTH it causes you to see as He does and and that produces love in your mind for GOD and others also. Do you think we Simply love without understanding , then it is you who are decieved Brother. Godliness is seeing things as GOD See things. And God sees things through His intellect giving him understanding, So he as a result of the great understand has mercy on us , “For He pities us as a Father pities his children.”
As i told you before remove your intellect or Knowledge and you will have no understanding, you will be a zombie unable to love or do anything. The love of God is Shed around in our Hearts by His Spirit of True understanding and that. “Let this MIND be in you that was in Christ Jesus or Lord”> That mind was expressed to us through words or Spirit, Not through some mysterious action as you seem to think. Remember it says the Spirit leads us into (ALL) truth, and you can't have truth without understanding it as you do, you only have suppositions, not real truth. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………………..gene
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