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Thinker………remember Jesus said God is Spirit, and there are (SEVEN Spirits of GOD) These are seven powers that compose (ONE) LORD GOD. When we say the LORD we are referencing the complete seven Spirits which compose Him. They are Intellect POWERS. These Seven intellects spoke and said lets make man our image. The represent the creative powers of everything created. And they EXIST (LORD) with POWERS (GOD). HEAR “O” ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD. That sums it up brother. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………….gene
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 10 2009,10:47) Quote
Gene,
All words are defined by the group of words with which they are used. In other words, it's all about context. The expression “elohim” is defined by the personal pronouns “Us” and “our”:Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…
God (Elohiym) said – God = subject and speaker
us = pronoun spoken to
our = pronoun spoken about
I have trouble with why the subject has to be defined by the pronouns. It seems the subject can stand by itself without the pronouns to identify as in 1:6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24.
Is not “EL” = mighty one (subject)
and OHIM (for example) an adjective describing EL as “object of worship? Or EL OLAM “Mighty one – age lasting
Can you explain what you mean by any of those being identified by the pronouns that follow.
Seeking
Seeking ………. You are right EL means Might or mountain, and Elohim Means MIGHTY POWERS, The LORD GOD can not stand alone He is composed of SEVEN SPIRITS these are POWERS called Elohim. They can not take a singular position in that context unless we add the word (LORD) then we have (HE EXISTS WITH POWERS) The He would represent an individual person. If we say HE is our GOD then we are talking about the LORD Himself being our POWER. (Hear O Israel the (LORD) our GOD (POWER) is (ONE LORD), notice it does not say one GOD. God is composed of Seven distinct powers hence ELOHIM a plural form for (POWERS)
Jesus NOW has these seven spirits also, if you look up in Revelations you will see the Lamb with seven HORNS (symbol) of POWERS and also Seven EYES these are the seven Intellects (Spirits) of GOD, that go to and fro through out the earth. So when the Powers spoke, they said lets make man in our image and in the image of these Powers they were made. They did not contain all or the fullness of these powers or intellects but what they did recieve they recieved it from GOD (the Powers) That is why the Spirits are perceived as the breath or wind, because these are unseen powers that produce an effect. These Spirits are from the LORD GOD they are part of GOD and they indwell us and give us enlightenment.
Most want to see themselves as a separate entity but we are simple the extensions of what always existed , God the FATHER is extending Himself to all of us via His Spirits, THAT GOD (POWERS) MAY BE ALL AND IN YOU ALL. Think about it it makes since. There has always existed good and evil , we are Just being conformed to what the FATHER wants as was Jesus also. Just (ONE) GOD (powers) working in and through ALL> And as the Father enjoys life so will we, He is sharing His life with us. BY Co habiting in us, “KNOW you not you are the temple of the living GOD (Powers)”.
Seeking we have more going for Us then we realize, Because of who the Father is. Only false religion teach man is just dangling on a sting over the lake of a literial fire. They preach A GOD of FEAR, which only shows their lack of faith , they really don't believe in His (POWER) to save. Nor do they truly trust in the salvation given us through Jesus Christ. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Mar. 12 2009,13:14) Seeking ………. You are right EL means Might or mountain, and Elohim Means MIGHTY POWERS, The LORD GOD can not stand alone He is composed of SEVEN SPIRITS these are POWERS called Elohim. They can not take a singular position in that context unless we add the word (LORD) then we have (HE EXISTS WITH POWERS) The He would represent an individual person. If we say HE is our GOD then we are talking about the LORD Himself being our POWER. (Hear O Israel the (LORD) our GOD (POWER) is (ONE LORD), notice it does not say one GOD. God is composed of Seven distinct powers hence ELOHIM a plural form for (POWERS) Jesus NOW has these seven spirits also, if you look up in Revelations you will see the Lamb with seven HORNS (symbol) of POWERS and also Seven EYES these are the seven Intellects (Spirits) of GOD, that go to and fro through out the earth. So when the Powers spoke, they said lets make man in our image and in the image of these Powers they were made. They did not contain all or the fullness of these powers or intellects but what they did recieve they recieved it from GOD (the Powers) That why the Spirits perceived as the breath or wind, because these are unseen powers that produce an effect. These Spirits are from the LORD GOD they are part of GOD and they indwell us and give us enlightenment.
Most want to see themselves as a separate entity but we are simple the extensions of what always existed , God the FATHER is extending Himself to all of us via His Spirits, THAT GOD (POWERS) MAY BE ALL AND IN YOU ALL. Think about it it makes since. There has always existed good and evil , we are Just being conformed to what the FATHER wants as was Jesus also. Just (ONE) GOD (powers) working in and through ALL> And as the Father enjoys life so will we, He is sharing His life with us. BY Co habbiting in us, “KNOW you not you are the temple of the living GOD (Powers)”.
Seeking we have more going for Us then we realize, Because of who the Father is. Only false religion teach man is just dangling on a sting over the lake of a literial fire. They preach A GOD of FEAR, which only shows their lack of faith , they really don't believe in His (POWER) to save. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Gene,I have always been impressed with what God is doing in us and for us. Most are content to, as some have put it, “have fire insurance.” Moving on to perfectyion is far from their minds. In fact, many excuse ungodly living, theirs and others.
Heb 2:18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Eph 1:16-19 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great mightGal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers
1Co 15:49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
1Jn 3:3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
Php 3:12-14 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Someone has said, “I am not what I ought to be, but thank God I am not what I use to be”!
Blessings,
Seeking
It always amazes me when I see somebody tries to make God what He is not. God is Almighty. If He is Almighty how then can anybody limit God and say that He can't. No way, if God is Almighty He also is all powerful.
There are many on this earth who have tried to limit God, without success.
Peace and Love IreneSeeking ……….Your have just preached the Gospel brother, you have it right. Our Heavenly Father is forming us to be His (exact image) by His Spirit. Thats why we never give up, if we fail we have more Grace for He adds Grace unto Grace, and we get up, ask for forgiveness brush ourself off and try not to sin again, we never get discouraged because we know in the end we shall prevail, for greater is He that is in us then He that in the world. Good scriptures brother.
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………….gene
Hi:
I have posted elsewhere that I asked God why He uses the plural Elohim instead of the singular, and the answer that I received is that it is because:
He is the God of gods and the Lord of Lords.
Joshua 22:22
The LORD h3068 יהוה Yĕhovah
God h410 אל 'el
of gods, h430 אלהים 'elohiym
the LORD h3068 יהוה Yĕhovah
God h410 אל 'el
of gods, h430 אלהים 'elohiymLove in Christ,
Marty942767……………indeed He is Power of power and LORD of Lords…………….as Jesus said the (ONLY) TRUE GOD,ELOHIM, or POWER.
love and peace to you and yours……………………………………………………………gene
Gene said:
Quote EL means Might or mountain, and Elohim Means MIGHTY POWERS, The LORD GOD can not stand alone He is composed of SEVEN SPIRITS these are POWERS called Elohim. They can not take a singular position in that context unless we add the word (LORD) then we have (HE EXISTS WITH POWERS) The He would represent an individual person. If we say HE is our GOD then we are talking about the LORD Himself being our POWER. (Hear O Israel the (LORD) our GOD (POWER) is (ONE LORD), notice it does not say one GOD. God is composed of Seven distinct powers hence ELOHIM a plural form for (POWERS) Gene,
This is really bizarre stuff dude! We were not created in the image of “powers”. And the image of “elohim” is one imageQuote And Elohim said “let US make man in OUR image and after OUR likeness.” And so Elohim created man is HIS own image You say that “they cannot take a singular position…unless we add the word LORD”. Yet Elohim takes a singular position without the word LORD as I have shown. “Let US make man in OUR image….And so Elohim made man in HIS own image.” Moses switched from the plural to the singular use of the personal pronoun. Note also that Elohim did not say “Let US make man in our images (plural), but image” (singular). Therefore, They take a singular position without the word “LORD”. You have yet to prove your theory.
Does context play a part at all in your hermeneutics?
thinker
Gene said:
Quote John 1:1……….has nothing to do with Jesus at all, It's about the LORD GOD HIMSELF, and nothing more. If John wanted to say Jesus He simply would have said Jesus, what would be so hard about that, He know who Jesus was , so we have to conclude He was not talking about Jesus at all. An notice this (word) intelligent utterance was also the light (intellect) of Man, it enlightens ever man coming into the world, it say. Trinitarians and Preexistences have forced the text to mean Jesus, but the texts itself does (NOT) apply to Jesus at all. Gene,
If the Word has nothing to do with Jesus in verse 1 it does in verse 14Quote And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father…. I repeat, if the Word ain't about Jesus in verse 1 it's about Jesus in verse 14. There's no doubt about it.
thinker
Thinker …………look up (Became) and you will find it means , came to be in, Flesh, Jesus said the words were not his but the Fathers, and he was speaking the Fathers words to us, not His ,Saying the words i am speaking to you are (NOT) mine but the FATHERS. so ask yourself How then could Jesus Himself be the word when He himself said the words were not His word, but the Fathers, and you have said the Father is not Jesus. But the Fathers (WORD) were spoken to us through Jesus is the way I see it. But that does not make Jesus the (word) of John 1:1, in fact it does not make Jesus the word at all. Just as if i were tell you to go and tell some something i told you and you did it, would that make the words you spoke as if from you, No it would not. The words you spoke would be mine So I would have been the one who uttered those words, not you. same with Jesus and the FATHER. The Words Jesus spoke were not His as He plainly said , so he could not be the word then. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………………gene
Thinker……….Ask any Hebrew linguist and they will tell you that Elohim is a plural word meaning (POWERS) in fact even a standard concordance will tell you that Elohim means Power. it is a a uni-plural word, what does that mean, it means its one GROUP, as say family does not mean one individual but many members of it, as a group but it is only (ONE) family. this the same with Elohim . Scripture say the are (SEVEN SPIRITS) of GOD (ELOHIM or POWERS). These seven Spirit (plural) represent (ONE) Group of POWERS or ELOHIM or GOD.
These Seven Spirits are what created everything that exists since the beginning of time. As John said, in the beginning was the WORD(expressed intellect) and the (expressed intellect) was with GOD (powers) and was Powers. The seven spirits are the powers that created every thing in the beginning, and that is all John was relating to , and words or expressed intellects is what enlightens every man that comes into the world, just as it says. Jesus does not enlighten every man that comes into the world, but the word (expressed intellects) do give every man enlightenment that comes into the world. Thinker, John Knew Jesus very well and if He meant Jesus he would have said Jesus was the word, and GOD Himself. why would he beat around the bush about it and make it, so we would have to change the words of what he wrote to try to get the right meaning. This is just what the trinitarian ideology and preexistences have to do in order to get scripture to go along with their teachings. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………………gene
Gene said:
Quote Ask any Hebrew linguist and they will tell you that Elohim is a plural word meaning (POWERS) in fact even a standard concordance will tell you that Elohim means Power. Gene,
Do you consider Strong's to be a standard concordance? It says that “elohim” especially refers to the supreme God (# 430). And Young's Analytical Concordance says that “elohim” means “God, Gods or objects of worship.”Neither of these standard concordances say that “elohim” refers to “impersonal powers.” Here is 1:26 again,
Quote And Elohim said “Let US make man in OUR image and after OUR likeness” Were you made in the image of impersonal “powers?”
thinker
thinker………….these seven Spirits that make up (ONE Elohim) or Powers are indeed personal but they are not personal to themselves but attributes of the LORD and all whom He gives them to. What do you think it means GOD in all and through ALL then. These attributes of the Spirit Powers or GOD are in Human beings . Why do you think it says the Spirit returns to Him who gave it, The LORD gave us of His Spirit (powers) and it enlightened us, as it does all who come into the world. Why do you think Jesus said call no man Father , for one is your FATHER even GOD, why because these Powers or Spirits is where everyone comes from, and they enlighten us all and when we die they go back to who gave them. The FATHER of ALL. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Gene said:
Quote ………….these seven Spirits that make up (ONE Elohim) or Powers are indeed personal but they are not personal to themselves Gene,
What does “personal but not personal to themselves” mean?thinker
G,
You say
” Why do you think it says the Spirit returns to Him who gave it, The LORD gave us of His Spirit (powers) and it enlightened us, as it does all who come into the world. Why do you think Jesus said call no man Father , for one is your FATHER even GOD, why because these Powers or Spirits is where everyone comes from, and they enlighten us all and when we die they go back to who gave them. The FATHER of ALL.”Really?
Are all born of the Spirit of God?
The spirit of man returns to God[ecc12]but this is not the Spirit of God.Are all sons of God?
No all are sons of satan except those rescued from the dominion of darkness.The vain understandings of the carnal mind draw men to imagine they are of God.
They should rather read and believe scripture to discover their desperately imperiled state.Nick………..If the (word) is of GOD and enlightens every man coming into the world , then how can you say that God is not there Father also ,Jesus said ' call no man father, but one is you father even GOD. But you seem content to contradict Jesus' words. He told us to pray (OUR) Father which art in Heaven, was that a prayer for just Him and the disciples or for all man kind. And when he said if you (Being) EVIL know how to give good gifts, how much more will (YOUR) heavenly (FATHER) give them the Spirit that ask for it. Why does he call them evil and then say GOD is their FATHER, And you say my understanding is vain, and we should read and believe scripture. Again it appears the Pot is calling the Kettle Black again. Here is something more for you to think about (Even Satan) as a Being is a SON of GOD, according to your thinking of him as a being right.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene
thinker……….It would be like saying a the battery is the car itself, while it is part of the car and along with other components make up ONE CAR but the battery of itself is not the CAR. There are SEVEN Spirits (INTELLECTS) of GOD and each Have power, and all together they are POWERS (ELOHIM) or GOD. All these have the same meaning. These powers are controlled by (ONE) LORD> Therefore, LORD (HE Exists) GOD (with POWERS) Hear “O” Israel the LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD< not one GOD. I will paraphrase it for you, Hear "O" Israel, HE who Exists as our POWERS is one LORD. If we look at GOD as a unit of Seven Spirits all composing one being, we can get a picture . imo
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Mar. 18 2009,15:03) Nick………..If the (word) is of GOD and enlightens every man coming into the world , then how can you say that God is not there Father also ,Jesus said ' call no man father, but one is you father even GOD. But you seem content to contradict Jesus' words. He told us to pray (OUR) Father which art in Heaven, was that a prayer for just Him and the disciples or for all man kind. And when he said if you (Being) EVIL know how to give good gifts, how much more will (YOUR) heavenly (FATHER) give them the Spirit that ask for it. Why does he call them evil and then say GOD is their FATHER, And you say my understanding is vain, and we should read and believe scripture. Again it appears the Pot is calling the Kettle Black again. Here is something more for you to think about (Even Satan) as a Being is a SON of GOD, according to your thinking of him as a being right. peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene
G,
John1
9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.Does this say God accepts all men as His children?
No that light reveals God to every man so that none any longer has an excuse.
Nick……John 1:3 In Him (GOD) was life, and the life was the light (intellect) of men. That is talking about The Spirit or intellect that is from the FATHER HIMSELF (NOT) Jesus. This Spiritual intellect gives man his thinking ability, and it came from GOD Himself. Just about all that chapter is talking about GOD the FATHER HIMSELF. He came to His own (CREATION) He was in Christ Jesus reconciling all man Kind unto himself. Nick that chapter is not talking about Jesus But the Father, You have bought into the lie that Jesus is the WORD That John was talking about, Jesus is not who John was talking about or He would have said Jesus. Don;t you think?
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………..gene
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