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- Gene,Mar. wrote:
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Gene,Then is your answer to my question that he was vulnerable and could have sinned, yes?
My question was –
Quote So He “emptied Himself” as the text states. But “emptied” he was not vulnerable? Gene writes –
Quote Seeking ………Jesus even now takes the form of a man even in the heavenly realm, He still is presented as a Man not a GOD. In the throne He is presented as a (SLAIN LAMB) hardly a GOD. Forgive me if I say I get a different picture of Him in heaven.
Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.
Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.
Rom 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died–more than that, who was raised–who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high
Heb 8:1 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
1Pe 3:22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
There is validity, I believe, about what you say regarding Jesus' life on earth. But the picture you paint of Him in heavenat the right hand of God is not consistent with the word.
Blessings,
Seeking
G,
You say
“there is not distention between Jesus and ourselves”
You mean DISTINCTION?
Yes there is.He is LORD and you are not.
He is head of the body.NIck………I know that Nick, what i am referring to is His humanity brother. Not His position the Father place on Him.He is certinely the Head of the Family second only the the Father.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 01 2009,09:52) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 28 2009,15:17) Gene,
Philippians 2 says that Jesus “emptied” Himself of all His divine authority and rights for our salvation. It's really not difficult to understand.thinker
Because the body which Jesus took put limitations on Him.
These statements of yours, being true, why wouldn't he be capable of sin?
Seeking,
The word of God reveals that Jesus was not capable of sin but only of temptation. God revealed also that we needed a High Priest that was without weakness (Heb. 7). It says that men who had weakness were appointed by the law as high priests. But Jesus was appointed High Priest by an immutable oath. If He had weakness then He could fail and the promise was not really “immutable”.thinker
Thinker……….Thats the whole point, Jesus could have failed because he could be tempted, but he didn't, so that leads to the question Why did he not fail? The answer is that GOD was in Him after He recieved the HOLY SPIRIT , Then He was tempted in the wilderness, But as scripture says Greater is He that is in you then He that is in the world, It was GOD Spirit in Him that Kept Him from sinning and this s the same way it must work in us also. Jesus Showed Us How Salvation works and it is in totally trust in GOD the FATHER and Through His SPirit we to can overcome, as He did. Jesus was one of Us Brother in every way. Except He had the (fullness) of the Spirit in Him , for GOd gives Him the Spirit without Measure, another words the fullness of the Spirit, and thats what kept him from sinning Brother. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………………….gene
Gene wrote:
Quote Thinker……….Thats the whole point, Jesus could have failed because he could be tempted, but he didn't, so that leads to the question Why did he not fail? The answer is that GOD was in Him after He recieved the HOLY SPIRIT , Gene,
You said that Jesus could fail. Then you said that He did not fail becuase God was in Him through the Holy Spirit. It appears as if you are saying that Jesus both could and could not fail at the same time. I don't get it.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 04 2009,11:18) Gene wrote: Quote Thinker……….Thats the whole point, Jesus could have failed because he could be tempted, but he didn't, so that leads to the question Why did he not fail? The answer is that GOD was in Him after He recieved the HOLY SPIRIT , Gene,
You said that Jesus could fail. Then you said that He did not fail becuase God was in Him through the Holy Spirit. It appears as if you are saying that Jesus both could and could not fail at the same time. I don't get it.thinker
I hesitate to speak for Gene, but you answered my question posed to him, so here goes.I understand Gene to say Jesus could fail because of who he was but that he could not fail once indwelt by the Spirit.
Once Jesus was indwelt with the Spirit, he walked faithful to the Spirit. That hope is held out for us to as we walk by the Spirit –Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Blessings,
Seeking
Quote (Gene @ Mar. 02 2009,14:32) Nick……….For it is written in the volume of the books concerning me love and peace……………………….gene
So G,
No mention of wills dying in scripture.
You made this up.Seeking said:
Quote I understand Gene to say Jesus could fail because of who he was but that he could not fail once indwelt by the Spirit. Once Jesus was indwelt with the Spirit, he walked faithful to the Spirit. That hope is held out for us to as we walk by the Spirit -Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
But what about the period in Jesus' life before He was filled with the Spirit? Jesus did not receive the Spirit until immediately before His temptation. Did He therefore have the ability to sin before that? What about when He was a boy? Did He have sinful desires that needed to be subdued when He was a boy?
We see that the boy Jesus went about doing His Father's will long before the Spirit came upon Him. It seems that He lacked the ability to sin even then.
thinker
thethinker,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote But what about the period in Jesus' life before He was filled with the Spirit? Jesus did not receive the Spirit until immediately before His temptation. Did He therefore have the ability to sin before that? What about when He was a boy? Did He have sinful desires that needed to be subdued when He was a boy? JESUS AS A BOY
Luk 2:40 And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom. And the favor of God was upon him.
Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.
Luk 2:51 And he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was submissive to them.
JESUS AS A SON
Heb 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,
I see Jesus like us when he took on human form and emptied himself of equality with God. It is said,
Heb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our infirmities, but one tempted in all things in like manner–apart from sin;
“In like manner” , I believe, speaks of potential. If the possibility was not there, he was not tempted as we are.
I realize you think differently. One more point where we must agree to disagree. You are convinced of Trinity teaching, others do not share your understanding.Jesus, as a child, “grew up” like we did even having to learn to
be submissive to his parents. I see him leading a dual life of
presence with God and taking on human form.Remember, I said that was what I thought Gene may have been saying. I see Jesus having a real struggle with his vs. his father's will in the garden too. But we have been through all these discussions already. I am certain no different opinions or conclusion will be reached with endless re-runs.
Seeking
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2009,05:59) Quote (Gene @ Mar. 02 2009,14:32) Nick……….For it is written in the volume of the books concerning me love and peace……………………….gene
So G,
No mention of wills dying in scripture.
You made this up.
Nick……so in your mind two WILLS can be done right, but scripture does not agree with you, please show us were two Wills can be done, before you accuse me of making something up. The scriptures i read say thy kingdom come (THY) WILL be done , do you see two wills being done there, If so please post it.Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 05 2009,05:36) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 04 2009,11:18) Gene wrote: Quote Thinker……….Thats the whole point, Jesus could have failed because he could be tempted, but he didn't, so that leads to the question Why did he not fail? The answer is that GOD was in Him after He recieved the HOLY SPIRIT , Gene,
You said that Jesus could fail. Then you said that He did not fail becuase God was in Him through the Holy Spirit. It appears as if you are saying that Jesus both could and could not fail at the same time. I don't get it.thinker
I hesitate to speak for Gene, but you answered my question posed to him, so here goes.I understand Gene to say Jesus could fail because of who he was but that he could not fail once indwelt by the Spirit.
Once Jesus was indwelt with the Spirit, he walked faithful to the Spirit. That hope is held out for us to as we walk by the Spirit –Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Blessings,
Seeking
seeking …………exactly, Jesus overcame by the Spirit Given Him , question is what did he overcome , His own Human nature, the same thing we have to overcome. What did Jesus say “he that overcomes even as I have”. our question shouel be How he overcame , By denying Himself and trusting in God the FATHER with all His Heart.love and peace to you and yours……………………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2009,05:59) Quote (Gene @ Mar. 02 2009,14:32) Nick……….For it is written in the volume of the books concerning me love and peace……………………….gene
So G,
No mention of wills dying in scripture.
You made this up.
Nick….I know this goes against you so-called (free will) Choices , But never the lest it is true, Jesus overcame by putting his will to death and becoming obedient to God the Father even to the point of Death. One WILL Nick not two or three or billions of WILLS that exist but only (ONE) WILL BE DONE> Nick i know this may shatter your self Will Ideology, but your will and my will means nothing. The (ONLY) Will that matters is the FATHERS WILL. Your so-called (FREE WILL) Never existed anyway. YOU are CREATED unto Righteousness , you never Had Righteousness yourself neither have I. God CREATES us Righteous. Your will or my will has nothing to do with it Nick. Its GOD the FATHERS WILL NICK>peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Seeking said:
Quote Jesus, as a child, “grew up” like we did even having to learn to
be submissive to his parents. I see him leading a dual life of
presence with God and taking on human form.Seeking,
While Jesus a boy and “learning to be submissive” did He ever sin? If you say “yes” then He is not the savior of men. If you say “no” then you infer that He mastered sin apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit. For He did not receive the Holy Spirit until He was a man. Either way you go you testify to the words in the book of Hebrews,Quote For such a High priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled separate from sinners….(7:25) I have to confess that I have difficulty understanding non-trinitarians. They want a Savior that is just like them. But I want a Savior that is NOT like me because I stink!
thinker
thinker
thinker ……….Jesus did not recieve the Spirit (IN) him till he was baptized, But that does not mean the Spirit was not (ON) HIM before that. We become sons and daughters of GOD when we are impregnated with HOLY SPIRIT , but before that we a drawn by GOD to that point. And there is also the idea of when Sin is even imputed to a person, I the wilderness all died who were under the age of twenty, except Joshua and Caleb , It say because they had a different Spirit on them, It seem that is a age of countability (maybe not sure though) Just my opinion, brother.
love and peace to you and yours………………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Mar. 08 2009,05:43) thinker ……….Jesus did not recieve the Spirit (IN) him till he was baptized, But that does not mean the Spirit was not (ON) HIM before that. We become sons and daughters of GOD when we are impregnated with HOLY SPIRIT , but before that we a drawn by GOD to that point. And there is also the idea of when Sin is even imputed to a person, I the wilderness all died who were under the age of twenty, except Joshua and Caleb , It say because they had a different Spirit on them, It seem that is a age of countability (maybe not sure though) Just my opinion, brother. love and peace to you and yours………………………………gene
Gene,
Your statement above is so convoluded, disoriented and unintelligable that I don't know how to reply. What is this distinction between the Spirit being “on” Jesus when He was a boy but not “in” Him until He was a man? Please explain your distinction between “on” and “in”. And please explain in accordance with the Biblical record that Jesus never sinned.You spoke unintelligably yesterday too. You said:
Quote God is a plural word (Elohim or Powers) Lord is YWHA (He exists). Lord God= (He exists with powers). Hear O Israel the LORD OUR GOD is ONE (LORD)> not ONE GOD. God said (Powers said) let us (powers) make man in our image. NO where does it say there are just two or three or any number of beings there. This is assumed by Trinitarians and Preexistences, but scripture does not affirm it. You said that “elohim” is plural but it means “powers”. You said that these “powers” spoke saying “let us make man in our image.” Are you saying that we were created in the image of “powers” and not in the image of Personal Beings?
thinker
Gene wrote:
Quote seeking …………exactly, Jesus overcame by the Spirit Given Him , question is what did he overcome , His own Human nature, the same thing we have to overcome. What did Jesus say “he that overcomes even as I have”. our question should be How he overcame , By denying Himself and trusting in God the FATHER with all His Heart.
Sounds good!
Gene wrote
Quote Jesus did not receive the Spirit (IN) him till he was baptized.
How do you conclude that? Wait I think I can guess. You consider that Jesus received the Spirit in him when the Spirit of God descended on him.
I believe this is only when he received the gifts of the Holy Spirit and not the indwelling since it is through living by the Spirit that one does not sin and I do not believe Jesus sinned even before he was baptized.
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