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Thinker……….True , but Jesus also said..> “call no man your Farther upon the earth, for one is your Father which is in heaven.” So should we make a distinction between His Father and Our Father?
love and peace……………………………….gene
I have a question for anyone who would like to answer? Why did the Pharisees state that Jesus was making himself equal to the Father? Is it because he was saying that His Father was working on the Sabbath and so he also was working on the Sabbath?
Quote Jhn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Jhn 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.Thanks,
MartyMarty……….Remember the Pharisees Kept the Law or should i say tried to, and Part of the law was “YOU SHALL HAVE NOT OTHER GOD BESIDES ME”. When Jesus called GOD His Father this to them was equaling Him to GOD, and they were instructed to Kill anyone who did that , it was a very serious offense. But Jesus himself never said he was equal with the Father in fact He said the Father was greater then Him. But the Pharisees were enraged at Jesus even saying He was the Son of GOD. But they said it , “for we have one Father even GOD” and then Jesus said if GOD were your Father you would have loved Me. They were hypocrites as Jesus said they were. IMO
peace…………………….gene
Marty said:
Quote I have a question for anyone who would like to answer? Why did the Pharisees state that Jesus was making himself equal to the Father? Is it because he was saying that His Father was working on the Sabbath and so he also was working on the Sabbath? Marty,
First, it was the apostle John who said that Jesus made Himself equal with the Father. Go to the text and read it carefully. John agrees with the Jews about Jesus' claim.Second, it was because Jesus both broke the sabbath and also said that God was His OWN Father that they wanted to kill Him. Jesus used the word “idios” claiming that God was His Father in distinction to all others,
Quote Therefore, the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, not only because He had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was His own (idios) Father, making Himself equal with God. (John 5:18) Jesus used the same word when He said,
Quote I lay down My own life for the sheep (John 10) thinker
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 25 2009,12:09) I have a question for anyone who would like to answer? Why did the Pharisees state that Jesus was making himself equal to the Father? Is it because he was saying that His Father was working on the Sabbath and so he also was working on the Sabbath? Quote Jhn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Jhn 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.Thanks,
Marty
Hi 94,
Possibly because of their knowledge about him from Ps2.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2009,05:30) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 25 2009,12:09) I have a question for anyone who would like to answer? Why did the Pharisees state that Jesus was making himself equal to the Father? Is it because he was saying that His Father was working on the Sabbath and so he also was working on the Sabbath? Quote Jhn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Jhn 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.Thanks,
Marty
Hi 94,
Possibly because of their knowledge about him from Ps2.
Hi Nick:Thanks for your reply. I just think that they misunderstood what he was saying. I don't think that I have heard him saying that he was equal with God. In the verses following those that I have quoted he states:
Quote Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him
Love in Christ,
Marty942767 said:
Quote I just think that they misunderstood what he was saying. Then the apostle John also misunderstood what Christ was saying and his account of Jesus' life and claims is unreliable. For it is the apostle John speaking in the narrative saying, “He made Himself equal with God.”
So you must discard John as a reliable interpreter of the things Jesus said. This in turn infers that we have only three Gospel accounts.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 28 2009,03:22) 942767 said: Quote I just think that they misunderstood what he was saying. Then the apostle John also misunderstood what Christ was saying and his account of Jesus' life and claims is unreliable. For it is the apostle John speaking in the narrative saying, “He made Himself equal with God.”
So you must discard John as a reliable interpreter of the things Jesus said. This in turn infers that we have only three Gospel accounts.
thinker
Hi thethinker:How does God being his Father make him equal with God? Was this what John thought, or was he saying that the Pharisees concluded that he was saying that he was equal with God because he said that His Father worked on the Sabbath and he worked because being God's Son gave him the privilege of breaking the Sabbath Law?
Jesus himself said:
Quote Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And if God sent him, how does that make him equal with God?
Quote Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. And as I have quoted in the verses following in John 5 Jesus explains that he cannot do any thing of himself, but he was doing as the Father showed him.
And so, what conclusions can we come to by virtue of these scriptures?
Love in Christ,
Marty942767 said:
Quote How does God being his Father make him equal with God? Was this what John thought, or was he saying that the Pharisees concluded that he was saying that he was equal with God because he said that His Father worked on the Sabbath and he worked because being God's Son gave him the privilege of breaking the Sabbath Law? Marty,
It says that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus for both healing on the sabbath and for claiming that God was His own Father. In Jewish thought this implied equality with God. So it was John's thought also because he was a Jew. Therefore, if John was wrong then his gospel account of Jesus' life and claims in unreliable. You may as well then cut John's gospel out of your Bible.thinker
thinker……….Why did Jesus say that the Father was greater the Him then. And if John meant Jesus in John 1:1 as the word why would he just not have said Jesus in the text if thats what he met. John also say if you perceive Jesus as not of the Flesh we are anti-Christs. Whosoever confesses Christ as (NOT) Coming in FLESH is anti-Christ, why did he say this , was it not because People were trying to make Jesus appear a a GOD, like the Gnostic's were and this teaching was beginning to infect the whole Church. God did not take a GOD and perfect Him , He took a son of Man and perfect Him and empowered Him to overcome Sin, a perfect example for all of Us and Brother that Knows the way to eternal Life, Thinker think about it, what example would a God made Perfect be to us anyway.
Love and peace to you and yours……………………………gene
Gene asked:
Quote thinker……….Why did Jesus say that the Father was greater the Him then. Because the body which Jesus took put limitations on Him. But He no longer has that body. He now exists without those limitations because He was glorified. Therefore, the Father is not greater than Jesus now.
thinker
Thinker…… Jesus also said the Father who gave them to me is Greater the ALL. He was not referring to himself. He also said (Thy) kingdom come (Thy) WILL be done . Jesus Showed he Had a different will then the Father's Will, many times. And why would Jesus Say for Thou art the (ONLY) true GOD. the word Thy and Thou, shows a destination between Him and GOD the FATHER clearly in Scripture. IMO
love and peace to you and yours……………………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Mar. 01 2009,06:49) Thinker…… Jesus also said the Father who gave them to me is Greater the ALL. He was not referring to himself. He also said (Thy) kingdom come (Thy) WILL be done . Jesus Showed he Had a different will then the Father's Will, many times. And why would Jesus Say for Thou art the (ONLY) true GOD. the word Thy and Thou, shows a destination between Him and GOD the FATHER clearly in Scripture. IMO love and peace to you and yours……………………………………gene
Gene,
Philippians 2 says that Jesus “emptied” Himself of all His divine authority and rights for our salvation. It's really not difficult to understand.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 28 2009,04:37)
Thinker states –Quote In Jewish thought this implied equality with God. So it was John's thought also because he was a Jew. I am German. Hitler felt justified in killing Jews. That was my thought too because I am German. NOT! False logic.
Then it is stated –
Quote Therefore, if John was wrong then his gospel account of Jesus' life and claims in unreliable. You may as well then cut John's gospel out of your Bible. But since the logic that led to the conclusion is false, the
“Therefore” is equally invalid.Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 28 2009,15:17) Gene,
Philippians 2 says that Jesus “emptied” Himself of all His divine authority and rights for our salvation. It's really not difficult to understand.thinker
Because the body which Jesus took put limitations on Him.
These statements of yours, being true, why wouldn't he be capable of sin?Thinker…… Phi 2:6…> Who being or existing (at this time) in the form of God, thought not to rob God to be equal with GOD. Jesus Know he had a special relationship with God , but Because he had that He did not use it to try to be equal with God, but made His self be like all men. Jesus did this also when He was tempted in the wilderness, He knew He had the fullness of the Spirit because He had received when He was baptized, He could have used that to have and of apperance of equality with God because of all the power He recieved at that time but He coses not to, but humbles Himself under the might hand of GOD.Even to the point of DEATH, (GOD CAN NOT DIE) But Jesus could and GOD raised Him up from the DEAD. He did not raise himself up. IMO
love and peace to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 01 2009,05:57) Gene asked: Quote thinker……….Why did Jesus say that the Father was greater the Him then. Because the body which Jesus took put limitations on Him. But He no longer has that body. He now exists without those limitations because He was glorified. Therefore, the Father is not greater than Jesus now.
thinker
Hi tt,
1Cor15
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Hi tt,
You say
“Philippians 2 says that Jesus “emptied” Himself of all His divine authority and rights for our salvation.”No it does not say that.
Phil2
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.You must be accurate if you wish to be taken seriously.
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 28 2009,21:47) Thinker…… Phi 2:6…> Who being or existing (at this time) in the form of God, thought not to rob God to be equal with GOD. Jesus Know he had a special relationship with God , but Because he had that He did not use it to try to be equal with God, but made His self be like all men. Jesus did this also when He was tempted in the wilderness, He knew He had the fullness of the Spirit because He had received when He was baptized, He could have used that to have and of apperance of equality with God because of all the power He recieved at that time but He coses not to, but humbles Himself under the might hand of GOD.Even to the point of DEATH, (GOD CAN NOT DIE) But Jesus could and GOD raised Him up from the DEAD. He did not raise himself up. IMO love and peace to you and yours……………………..gene
So He “emptied Himself” as the text states. But “emptied” he was not vulnerable?Blessings,
Seeking
Seeking ………Jesus even now takes the form of a man even in the heavenly realm, He still is presented as a Man not a GOD. In the throne He is presented as a (SLAIN LAMB) hardly a GOD. Even in the future He is presented as son of Man, (“for when the son of man comes”), and related to the Father even as we do, we are both heirs and Joint heirs with him as scripture plainly shows , there is not distention between Jesus and ourselves, as he put His Will to death we must also , as He is subject to the (one Will)of GOD we must also become. No distention or difference. He is just the first to be born into the Kingdom of GOD, of many brothers and sisters. He is our elder Brother exactly as we are before the ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, THE FATHER OF ALL CREATION> IMO
love and peace to you and yours……………………………………gene
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