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Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2010,02:29) Hi guys,
You are talking about something that is very important to me. I have been saying this for some time:Quote In the beginning was the word…”Let there be light” and the word was with GOD…and the “Light” was with God
and the word was God…and the word “Light” was the God of GOD
The Light was the firstborn of all creation, see Col. 1
and
Quote I was challenged to know the meaning of the term “firstborn of all creation” by some JW's. I remember not seeing that verse before. I had always thought that the Son of God had eternally existed. I surrendered my previous views on the trinity doctrine if they were not accurate. I just wanted truth.
I began reading the gospels like there was a different emphasis that I had been missing, a different perspective…one that the Son of God was soooo apparent as a Son who was begotten of God and that was referred to as God but not equal to His Father and was a Son who took an active part in creation.
I was studying the Bible for many hours a day and not seeking extra-Biblical literature.
I wondered if I was going to have to attend a different type of church than my family since my husband was and still is a Trinitarian. I decided that as long as the church believes in the inerrancies of the scriptures, I could still attend. Also, my husband was the spiritual leader in the home and I continue going to church with him.
After 1 month of seeing the Son of God as actually born of God (not created) before creation, I was still studying alot but took a break and was teaching my son and reviewing the days of creation. I asked him what happened on day one. He said that God said “Let there be Light” and at that moment without question, I heard a whisper in my left ear say “You are the Light of the world” and I paused and just thought…WOW! How simple, could that be when the Son was born? I have tested that connection and have peace with the understanding that yes, the terms “firstborn of all creation” and “Let there be Light” are related. It has helped everything come together for me in a way that the trinity doctrine did not.
That was about 16 years ago and I haven't found any reason to disprove it.
Both above quotes from here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=150Just a few minutes ago I found this quote from Tertullian and I could hardly believe it:
Quote 200 AD Tertullian “[W]hen God says, 'Let there be light' [Gen. 1:3], this is the perfect nativity of the Word, while he is proceeding from God. . . . Thus, the Father makes him equal to himself, and the Son, by proceeding from him, was made the first-begotten, since he was begotten before all things, and the only-begotten, because he alone was begotten of God, in a manner peculiar to himself, from the womb of his own heart, to which even the Father himself gives witness: 'My heart has poured forth my finest Word' [Ps. 45:1Against Praxeas 7:1). from here: from: http://www.bible.ca/H-trinity.htm
I'm really happy about this
Kathi
Dennison,
I don't think you read this quoted post that I bumped for you. Please read it carefully-all of it. Pay attention to what Tertullian said of which I had never seen nor heard till early this morning. It seems that God showed me something that He showed Tertullian in 200 AD. That really encouraged me.the title 'firstborn of/over all creation' is related to 'Let there be light.'
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2010,03:31) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2010,02:29) Hi guys,
You are talking about something that is very important to me. I have been saying this for some time:Quote In the beginning was the word…”Let there be light” and the word was with GOD…and the “Light” was with God
and the word was God…and the word “Light” was the God of GOD
The Light was the firstborn of all creation, see Col. 1
and
Quote I was challenged to know the meaning of the term “firstborn of all creation” by some JW's. I remember not seeing that verse before. I had always thought that the Son of God had eternally existed. I surrendered my previous views on the trinity doctrine if they were not accurate. I just wanted truth.
I began reading the gospels like there was a different emphasis that I had been missing, a different perspective…one that the Son of God was soooo apparent as a Son who was begotten of God and that was referred to as God but not equal to His Father and was a Son who took an active part in creation.
I was studying the Bible for many hours a day and not seeking extra-Biblical literature.
I wondered if I was going to have to attend a different type of church than my family since my husband was and still is a Trinitarian. I decided that as long as the church believes in the inerrancies of the scriptures, I could still attend. Also, my husband was the spiritual leader in the home and I continue going to church with him.
After 1 month of seeing the Son of God as actually born of God (not created) before creation, I was still studying alot but took a break and was teaching my son and reviewing the days of creation. I asked him what happened on day one. He said that God said “Let there be Light” and at that moment without question, I heard a whisper in my left ear say “You are the Light of the world” and I paused and just thought…WOW! How simple, could that be when the Son was born? I have tested that connection and have peace with the understanding that yes, the terms “firstborn of all creation” and “Let there be Light” are related. It has helped everything come together for me in a way that the trinity doctrine did not.
That was about 16 years ago and I haven't found any reason to disprove it.
Both above quotes from here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=150Just a few minutes ago I found this quote from Tertullian and I could hardly believe it:
Quote 200 AD Tertullian “[W]hen God says, 'Let there be light' [Gen. 1:3], this is the perfect nativity of the Word, while he is proceeding from God. . . . Thus, the Father makes him equal to himself, and the Son, by proceeding from him, was made the first-begotten, since he was begotten before all things, and the only-begotten, because he alone was begotten of God, in a manner peculiar to himself, from the womb of his own heart, to which even the Father himself gives witness: 'My heart has poured forth my finest Word' [Ps. 45:1Against Praxeas 7:1). from here: from: http://www.bible.ca/H-trinity.htm
I'm really happy about this
Kathi
Dennison,
I don't think you read this quoted post that I bumped for you. Please read it carefully-all of it. Pay attention to what Tertullian said of which I had never seen nor heard till early this morning. It seems that God showed me something that He showed Tertullian in 200 AD. That really encouraged me.the title 'firstborn of/over all creation' is related to 'Let there be light.'
Summarize your points,
because you gave me the details.
I understand that your relating the begotten to when God said let there be light.What does that mean?
Dennison,
I told you what happened and this is the conclusion that I have been testing:Could the 'word' in John 1:1 be referring to 'light' which was of the first word spoken 'in the beginning' – 'Let there be light?'
Could that 'light' be referring to the 'firstborn' of/over creation…the true Son of God, the only begotten God?Over the past umpteen years, I have felt great encouragment and Tertullian topped it off this morning.
Does that help?Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2010,08:44) As you can tell, to be made finished is one of the definitions. Now let's see how the heavens and the earth were not yet finished until after day one when Light came.
Hi Kathi,I can live with that. Let's see if anyone else has any reason why your revelation isn't short of inspired. I sure don't.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2010,04:32) Dennison,
I told you what happened and this is the conclusion that I have been testing:Could the 'word' in John 1:1 be referring to 'light' which was of the first word spoken 'in the beginning' – 'Let there be light?'
Could that 'light' be referring to the 'firstborn' of/over creation…the true Son of God, the only begotten God?Over the past umpteen years, I have felt great encouragment and Tertullian topped it off this morning.
Does that help?
That depends.Collosians expressed that Jesus created.
Did Jesus create the Heaven and the earth according to that or not?since life consist out of him?
im HONESTLY asking, not refuting anything yet.
Dennison,
Yes the Son, the 'firstborn of/over all creation' is who God created by.Col 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
NASUQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2010,18:32) Dennison,
I told you what happened and this is the conclusion that I have been testing:Could the 'word' in John 1:1 be referring to 'light' which was of the first word spoken 'in the beginning' – 'Let there be light?'
Could that 'light' be referring to the 'firstborn' of/over creation…the true Son of God, the only begotten God?Over the past umpteen years, I have felt great encouragment and Tertullian topped it off this morning.
Does that help?
Hi Kathi, Dennison and Mike,Anything could be possible, no? God is Light, Jesus is the Light of the World.
Light, more or less, is invisible….
Jesus is “Word” before he became “Jesus”. God spoke (Word) Jesus did. God created everything thru Jesus. It doesn't say HOW God created everything thru Jesus,,,,only that He did.
Jesus could've started out being “spirit”, “light”, “truth” in order to complete the creation process. Then he could've obtained (morphed) a physical body to which he had to empty in order to become man.
All we “know” is that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, so it is hard to be pragmatic about something we don't have further information on. But it is fun to think.
Also, it doesn't say how long Jesus was alone with God before they began creating…..everything out of nothing. It only says that Jesus is BEFORE the creation and has first-place in everything.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 09 2010,11:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2010,18:32) Dennison,
I told you what happened and this is the conclusion that I have been testing:Could the 'word' in John 1:1 be referring to 'light' which was of the first word spoken 'in the beginning' – 'Let there be light?'
Could that 'light' be referring to the 'firstborn' of/over creation…the true Son of God, the only begotten God?Over the past umpteen years, I have felt great encouragment and Tertullian topped it off this morning.
Does that help?
Hi Kathi, Dennison and Mike,Anything could be possible, no? God is Light, Jesus is the Light of the World.
Light, more or less, is invisible….
Jesus is “Word” before he became “Jesus”. God spoke (Word) Jesus did. God created everything thru Jesus. It doesn't say HOW God created everything thru Jesus,,,,only that He did.
Jesus could've started out being “spirit”, “light”, “truth” in order to complete the creation process. Then he could've obtained (morphed) a physical body to which he had to empty in order to become man.
All we “know” is that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, so it is hard to be pragmatic about something we don't have further information on. But it is fun to think.
Also, it doesn't say how long Jesus was alone with God before they began creating…..everything out of nothing. It only says that Jesus is BEFORE the creation and has first-place in everything.
The Professor
Hi David,Good points. It is fun to imagine how it was all done. The conversations the Father had with the Son……..and still does.
Like, which one of them designed the platypus? How fun was that?
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2010,05:24) Dennison,
Yes the Son, the 'firstborn of/over all creation' is who God created by.Col 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
NASU
So if Jesus created the heavens and the earth,than how is it that he was made when God said that there will be light?
your stating that Jesus was begotten when God said “let there be light” correct?
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 09 2010,05:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2010,18:32) Dennison,
I told you what happened and this is the conclusion that I have been testing:Could the 'word' in John 1:1 be referring to 'light' which was of the first word spoken 'in the beginning' – 'Let there be light?'
Could that 'light' be referring to the 'firstborn' of/over creation…the true Son of God, the only begotten God?Over the past umpteen years, I have felt great encouragment and Tertullian topped it off this morning.
Does that help?
Hi Kathi, Dennison and Mike,Anything could be possible, no? God is Light, Jesus is the Light of the World.
Light, more or less, is invisible….
Jesus is “Word” before he became “Jesus”. God spoke (Word) Jesus did. God created everything thru Jesus. It doesn't say HOW God created everything thru Jesus,,,,only that He did.
Jesus could've started out being “spirit”, “light”, “truth” in order to complete the creation process. Then he could've obtained (morphed) a physical body to which he had to empty in order to become man.
All we “know” is that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, so it is hard to be pragmatic about something we don't have further information on. But it is fun to think.
Also, it doesn't say how long Jesus was alone with God before they began creating…..everything out of nothing. It only says that Jesus is BEFORE the creation and has first-place in everything.
The Professor
It says “by” it doesnt say through. that depends on the word “dia” which is ridcously debated over and over again.And if Jesus is BEFORE the creation than he wouldnt be the same light that was created the day that God said let there be light?
Where do you get that Jesus is before creation? honestly asking.
Hi Dennison,
I suppose that you were addressing David with those questions. I hope you don't mind me chiming in as I have given the matter a lot of thought over the last 17 years. The dia is translated 'by' and 'through' and other things. Do you think it makes much of a difference. God created all things by the Son and through the Son and for the Son.Also, about Jesus being BEFORE creation, there was nothing IN heaven or ON earth when 'Light' was 'begotten.' In Col 1 we can read that by the Firstborn, all things were created IN heaven and ON earth:
Col 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
NASUHi Kathi,
So sorry, but look at this:
4 “Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?Do you notice that angels and morning stars were already there before God said, “Let there be light”? Before He laid the foundations of the earth.
What do you think?
peace and love,
mikeMike,
Another good question and I have thought about that too.Look at this verse in Proverbs and see that the 'foundation' was still in process when the seas were gathered on day three.
Prov 8:29-31
29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.
NASUQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,11:34) Mike,
Another good question and I have thought about that too.Look at this verse in Proverbs and see that the 'foundation' was still in process when the seas were gathered on day three.
Prov 8:29-31
29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.
NASU
Hi Kathi,It seems as if we might need to look more into what “foundations” meant. Maybe the “foundations of the earth” are what they understood what supported the actual land masses to be.
mike
Hi,
In Genesis 1:1 started with “In the beginning” God created. I couldn't help to ponder on the word “In” the “beginning”. God created the heaven. Let's look at that; where did that take place first? How did it come to pass? To whom is this knowledge for ? and to what purpose does this question deserve addressing?
Where did the angel live? what was their vocations?
as I ponder on this I asked , in what , the answer is heaven, the first creation. then came out of darkness the earth and all that is in and on and everything we are knowledgeable of. Then came new heavens (chapter 2) Paul spoke of it in 2nd Corth. 12:1-4 . God made all that was made and it pleased Him; the purpose was for etenal life with Him . I received most of my interest from the book of enoch that has openned my mind unto an heavenly order.Hi Happyman,
It is nice to see you posting here. I know some think as you do that there was a creation, then a calamity, then another creation. I don't see evidence of that in the canon. I know that the Son created the angels because Col 1 tells us that He created everything in heaven, visible and invisible, of course the Father is in the context and the 'everything' did not include the Father. I know that by day six of creation, God declared that it was good and so I see that as a big reason there were no fallen angels at that point.Kathi
LU…………Look up Tohu and Bohu, the earth became Tohu and Bohu, there was indeed another creation here and was destroyed, even the fossils prove that they thousands of years old into the hundreds of thousands of years old. And God said he would create all thing New again there will be a new heaven and earth. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Gene,
The earth WAS formless and void, it doesn't say BECAME formless and void. The new heavens and the new earth are yet to come.I have wondered so many times why God created a formless and void earth. I know it is speculation at best, but since Satan is the God of this earth, I wonder if in Genesis God recreated the earth. Satan was here before man, because He was in Paradise when Adam and Eve sinned…. So it could very well be that Satan made a mess of this earth. God then recreated this earth so we could live here…that also goes along with what Scientists found, the Skeletons that shows that they are much older then 2000 years…..Irene
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