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Quote (david @ Nov. 16 2012,19:36) After the resurrection, Jesus is said to have been “appearing” all over the place. I suppose that could mean that Jesus was appearing and disappearing all the time. It does seem to fit with the rest of the account. Ok. I concede that Phillip was a spirit. 🙂
Or more logically, that “appearing” isn't necessarily a tell-tale sign that one is a spirit being.
Quote (david @ Nov. 16 2012,19:55) I was just amused when the most quoted scripture in this thread–you seemed like you hadn't read it before.
This is what I asked:“As for what Peter wrote, can you show me the scripture where he says Jesus was resurrected in the spirit? I'm not familiar with that one.”
I have yet to see such a scripture.
The one you quoted 19 times doesn't say anything about the resurrection of Jesus. It says he was made alive by or in spirit – but that could have been AFTER the 40 days on earth.Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 17 2012,06:26) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 16 2012,16:37) T, Hebrews 2:17
King James Version (KJV)17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The children are his siblings.
He was made like them.“he, himself” is a way to emphasize the person being spoke of.
Both Jesus and his siblings share “flesh and blood”. Jesus' sharing is emphasized in Hebrews 2:14(KJV) but was not his choice according to Hebrews 2:17(KJV).Jesus sacrificed himself that we might be free from the chains of death. For he that is chained to sin is also chained to death as the wages of sin are death. Satan is the one that holds us bound.
Jesus died even though he, a human, did not earn the wages of sin. In this way the evil one stands condemned as the evil despot he is.
John 16:11
King James Version (KJV)11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
kplease answer all the questions
T,I was thinking I did. Please let me know which one's you believe I missed. Thank you!
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2012,06:59) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 17 2012,06:26) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 16 2012,16:37) T, Hebrews 2:17
King James Version (KJV)17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The children are his siblings.
He was made like them.“he, himself” is a way to emphasize the person being spoke of.
Both Jesus and his siblings share “flesh and blood”. Jesus' sharing is emphasized in Hebrews 2:14(KJV) but was not his choice according to Hebrews 2:17(KJV).Jesus sacrificed himself that we might be free from the chains of death. For he that is chained to sin is also chained to death as the wages of sin are death. Satan is the one that holds us bound.
Jesus died even though he, a human, did not earn the wages of sin. In this way the evil one stands condemned as the evil despot he is.
John 16:11
King James Version (KJV)11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
kplease answer all the questions
T,I was thinking I did. Please let me know which one's you believe I missed. Thank you!
kpage 17
post;Posted: Nov. 16 2012,14:32
I think this has gone off on rabbit trails and we are not looking at the right things to answer the question of Jesus being resurrected and why was He
First of all, it was not just His body involved. It is all about the blood and body given for atonement.
His blood was shed for our forgiveness and His body was broke for healing and, redemption that is to come when we receive our new bodies.Second, we should not always look at physical death as the only death spoken of in the bible.
Death means, (in simple terms “separation”).
The bible says we are spiritually dead, meaning we don't have the life of God, (eternal life) in us because of Adam's sin that put all mankind into that state of spiritual death, being separated from the life of God.Think about this scripture, Rom_14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
He rose and revived. He rose form “spiritual death” (that He became for us) and His body was revived.
He has a body, but not in the state that our body is now. We will be resurrected, (our bodies revived) and be like His.
We will not be limited to the 3 dimensions and natural laws that govern this life.Jesus said we will be “as” the angels not like them, for they have no body, but our bodies will be changed like unto His.
He was the the one who God made a covenant with, the testator of the New Testament and rose to enforce it.
He rose as a our High Priest.
This is the important stuff about His resurrection, not weather anyone knew Him in His resurrected body or not.To All………..We, as Jesus was, will be resurrected with Bodies Just as it say . “for we look forward to the resurrection that will wittiness the “redemption” of “our bodies” IMO
peace and love to you all………………………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 18 2012,20:37) To All………..We, as Jesus was, will be resurrected with Bodies Just as it say . “for we look forward to the resurrection that will wittiness the “redemption” of “our bodies” IMO peace and love to you all………………………………………………………………..gene
that only will happen to those who live by the truth of GodQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 17 2012,13:06) Quote (david @ Nov. 16 2012,19:55) I was just amused when the most quoted scripture in this thread–you seemed like you hadn't read it before.
This is what I asked:“As for what Peter wrote, can you show me the scripture where he says Jesus was resurrected in the spirit? I'm not familiar with that one.”
I have yet to see such a scripture.
The one you quoted 19 times doesn't say anything about the resurrection of Jesus. It says he was made alive by or in spirit – but that could have been AFTER the 40 days on earth.
Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in POWER:1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. There is a natural body, and there is a SPIRITUAL BODY.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a QUICKENING SPIRIT.
1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is SPIRIUAL, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL.
ANGELS HAVE SPIRITUAL BODIES. THE LAST ADAM WAS RAISED A QUICKENING SPIRIT.
A spirit can materialise.The old dry bones are not change into spirit,but the soul is given a body. We will not see our king full of scars on his body;although he can show it, if he wants to,by materialising.
How would the armless, or legless, and the blind be resurrected,if it is just a matter of reviving the body?
wakeup.
It seems from his post that Wakeup agrees with you, David; and that he is trying to use 1 Cor 15 as support, just like you did.
I will direct him to my response to journey:
Page 6
Post #6
Last three paragraphs of the postQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 17 2012,12:55) Quote (david @ Nov. 15 2012,21:02) Instead of creating the argument that I believe Jesus lied, you are better off to prove to me that pneuma can not mean and logically wouldn't mean “apparition.”
Is it your understanding that “apparitions” don't have flesh and bone, but “spirits” do?The bottom line is that Jesus DID HAVE flesh and bone at the time he spoke those words. These are things that apparitions, ghosts, spooks, AND spirits DON'T HAVE. So, despite what you think the word “pneuma” means in that verse, it seems evident that spirits don't have flesh and bone – and Jesus did have those things.
An apparition or phantom is an illusion, something that isn't really there.
“Am I imagining this? Are we imagining his? Are we really seeing the resurrected Jesus? Or, is it just an apparition or phantom, only an illusion, not really there”A spirit on the other hand, is real.
Apparition: not really there
Spirit: a real thing, that actually exists.(I have to do serious research on pneuma)
Of course, if you believe at spirits cannot or are unable to materialize human bodies, then, you cannot believe this, or it wouldn't even make sense. For me, I believe there is evidence in the bible that they can. But even if the old tenement account doesn't absolutely prove that, it doesn't mean it's not possible for Jesus if that's what other evidence shows.
For the ones like WAKEUP and journey and me, you should show that e word pneuma cannot be understood that way. Or, conversely, I should be trying harder to prove it.
I guess you missed the sarcastic gist of my previous post, David.
Listen: It really doesn't matter what you think the word “pnuema” meant in Luke 24:39, because NOT ONE of the definitions of “pneuma” describe a being that DOES have flesh and bone.
Now, in your thinking, Jesus could have been a “pneuma” who “materialized” flesh and bone for this encounter. But that would make Jesus a LIAR – or at the very least a TRICKSTER – because he was clearly telling the disciples that he was NOT a “pneuma”. So it doesn't matter WHAT you think “pneuma” referred to in that verse, because Jesus was saying he was NOT one of them.
(Again, NOTHING that is described as a “pneuma” in scripture has flesh and bone – things that Jesus DID have.)
It wouldn't make him a liar as you say, if pneuma can be understood to mean apparition or phantom. (I do know that there are other specific words for phantom)
'An (apparition; ie: illusion) doesn't have flesh and bones.'
Jesus certainly had flesh and bones and a hole in his hands when he appeared in that room. But, believing that a spirit can materialize flesh and bones, there is no contradiction in logic.
(But there may be a fallacy in linguistics). I have to look into that
I should also look into the account where the angels materialized bodies. That seems to be something we should be discussing.
Quote (david @ Nov. 18 2012,15:11) It wouldn't make him a liar as you say, if pneuma can be understood to mean apparition or phantom.
Even IF that were the case (notice the “big IF” ), it would mean that we are to assume the disciples just naturally understood that spirits DO have flesh and bone on occasion.Like:
Oh crap, Jesus! At first we thought you were an apparition, but now we naturally understand you are just a spirit being who has materialized flesh and bones to be here with us!
We probably shouldn't base our understandings on such “big IFs”?
Quote (david @ Nov. 18 2012,15:11) I should also look into the account where the angels materialized bodies. That seems to be something we should be discussing.
Agreed. But remember that eating human food doesn't make an angel flesh and bone anymore than me eating dog food would make me a dog. After all, humans were said to have eaten “the bread of angels”, right?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2012,03:30) Quote (david @ Nov. 18 2012,15:11) I should also look into the account where the angels materialized bodies. That seems to be something we should be discussing.
Agreed. But remember that eating human food doesn't make an angel flesh and bone anymore than me eating dog food would make me a dog. After all, humans were said to have eaten “the bread of angels”, right?
agreed Mike but it would show that he is not an apparition or phantomQuote (david @ Nov. 19 2012,07:03) WAKEUP, are you saying he was raisd to life or resurrected as a spirit?
Hi DavidThe scruptures says that He was MADE a quickening spirit.
All angels have quicking spirit bodies.
They can materialise and dematerialise.And when they materialise they become truly flesh.
The souls of the dead will be given a quickening body.
A perfect body has a soul like any deformed body's soul.
Raised or resurrected no difference.
Revived or brought back to life, is different to raised.The dry and dusty old bones are not recycled over again.
Jesus body was not left to decay,for he must be resurrected the 3th day,and show himself to his brothers what it is all about.But we all must wait for our time,and that is the day of resurrection,but the elders first,then the 144000,then the rest.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2012,08:30) Quote (david @ Nov. 18 2012,15:11) I should also look into the account where the angels materialized bodies. That seems to be something we should be discussing.
Agreed. But remember that eating human food doesn't make an angel flesh and bone anymore than me eating dog food would make me a dog. After all, humans were said to have eaten “the bread of angels”, right?
MIke B.Satan did not show himself to Jesus as a spirit,but he truly materialised.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 19 2012,11:03) Quote (david @ Nov. 19 2012,07:03) WAKEUP, are you saying he was raisd to life or resurrected as a spirit?
Hi DavidThe scruptures says that He was MADE a quickening spirit.
All angels have quicking spirit bodies.
They can materialise and dematerialise.And when they materialise they become truly flesh.
The souls of the dead will be given a quickening body.
A perfect body has a soul like any deformed body's soul.
Raised or resurrected no difference.
Revived or brought back to life, is different to raised.The dry and dusty old bones are not recycled over again.
Jesus body was not left to decay,for he must be resurrected the 3th day,and show himself to his brothers what it is all about.But we all must wait for our time,and that is the day of resurrection,but the elders first,then the 144000,then the rest.wakeup.
Hi WAKEUPI wasn't asking if he was either raised OR resurrected but was using them interchangeably. No difference, as you say.
So, you agree that he was resurrected as a spirit?
I don't know what you mean by quickening body.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 19 2012,09:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2012,03:30) Quote (david @ Nov. 18 2012,15:11) I should also look into the account where the angels materialized bodies. That seems to be something we should be discussing.
Agreed. But remember that eating human food doesn't make an angel flesh and bone anymore than me eating dog food would make me a dog. After all, humans were said to have eaten “the bread of angels”, right?
agreed Mike but it would show that he is not an apparition or phantom
Yes terrarica, that is the point. Him eating food would indeed show that he wasn't an apparition, that he was really there.
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