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Mike…..> Well if you are talking about the Above thing then also don't forget to apply it to the Apostles becasue Jesus said they were from above also.
Mike……….> maybe this will help you.
John 8:16….> And yet if I judge, my judgement is true: for I am (NOT) alone, but I AND THE FATHER , that sent me.
Your problem Mike is you do not believe the FATHER was by his LOGOS derived from the HOLY SPIRIT was truly (IN) Jesus . You think Jesus the man was the LOGOS and can't except that GOD the FATHER was Truly (IN) Jesus and that Part of Jesus was from above, and that came to be also in the apostles and anyone that has Holy Spirit (IN) them they are also from above, Just as Jesus was. Need proof?
John 17:14……> I have given them (THY) word; and the world has hated them, because (now notice MIKE) “THEY ARE (NOT) OF OR FROM THE WORLD, EVEN AS (the exact same as Jesus) I AM NOT OF THE WORLD.
Now tell us Mike do you see any difference between Jesus bing not of the world as to the disciples also being not of the world?
Mike your work is a work of SEPARATION rather you understand it or not. You desperately want to make Jesus not like the rest of the Human race. but as you see here Jesus identifies himself (EXACTLY) as He does the Disciples saying they are not of the world also.
Gene, below is the actual post. I will put numbers by the points that need addressed, since you can't seem to figure this out on your own.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 05 2011,07:12) Now for you Next question do i believe Jesus came down from heaven , yes (IN) this sense, He had a preplanned berth from God……………
Hi Gene,1. Couldn't that same thing be said about every human being who ever lived?
2. Why did no one else ever claim to have come down from heaven?
3. God told Jeremiah He knew him before He formed him in the womb – yet Jeremiah couldn't make the claim, “I came down from heaven”.
4. Also, why was it a shock to the Jews to whom Jesus was speaking at the time?
5. Why did they all grumble and say, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” ?
6. If it was a matter of every human being able to say, “I came down from heaven because I had a pre-planned birth from God”, then the Jews wouldn't have reacted the way they did.
7. And finally, Jesus said, “What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!” Where was he before, Gene?
8. Where did many of those Jews later see him ascend to?
9. So the teaching was not only that Jesus came down FROM heaven, but that he would also ascend BACK TO heaven. And many disciples saw him literally and physically ascend back to where he was before.
10. Gene, do you believe that the PERSON of Jesus literally and physically ascended to heaven? YES or NO?
11. And if “YES”, then why is it so hard for you to believe that the PERSON of Jesus literally and physically came down from heaven?
12. Gene, the teaching from the one you call your Lord says that he both descended from and would ascend back to heaven. You apparently only want to believe half of your Lord's words.
We believe all of them.
Okay Gene, I've listed 12 points from my post that I want you to at least comment on, insteading of just ignoring them as usual. Number your post with 1-12, making a comment about each of those points.
Mike……….Simple, i have answered them all by my above post to you even though you cleverly ignored it. Now why don you reread it and answer it for us all OK. Just answer John 17:14 , and then tell us this, was Cyrus from above or below, seeing he was “PROPHESIED” to Come 200 YEARS before He ever EXISTED, or should we say as you do about Jesus He descended as a sentential “BEING” from HEAVEN. All thing PROPHESIED by God servants are FROM ABOVE it's Just that Simple and you can apply that to every man there is, from a Physical point,as far as that goes, But Jesus was not talking about His “Physical past location” as YOU and the Pharisees and all Preexistences assume he was. He was talking about his conception in the mind of GOD who is above and therefore He also descended from above. That was his place of conception, Just that simple.
Remember answer JOHN 17:14, (IF YOU CAN), and the question about King Cyrus. He existed Just as Jesus did in the Plan and will of GOD.
Lets not make this all about answered your questions let have you answer some of our question for a change. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………………………………gene
Gene,
It is YOU who avoids questions all the time, and I'll prove it once again right now.
Quote was Cyrus from above or below, seeing he was “PROPHESIED” to Come 200 YEARS before He ever EXISTED,
Cyrus was from below, Ed. He was never said to have pre-existed his flesh.There, I DIRECTLY answered your question. Now, please address my points, ONE BY ONE, and DIRECTLY.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2011,02:33) Gene, It is YOU who avoids questions all the time, and I'll prove it once again right now.
Quote was Cyrus from above or below, seeing he was “PROPHESIED” to Come 200 YEARS before He ever EXISTED,
Cyrus was from below, Ed. He was never said to have pre-existed his flesh.There, I DIRECTLY answered your question. Now, please address my points, ONE BY ONE, and DIRECTLY.
Ed? …I thought this post was directed at Gene?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2011,02:33) Gene, It is YOU who avoids questions all the time, and I'll prove it once again right now.
Quote was Cyrus from above or below, seeing he was “PROPHESIED” to Come 200 YEARS before He ever EXISTED,
Cyrus was from below, Ed. He was never said to have pre-existed his flesh.There, I DIRECTLY answered your question. Now, please address my points, ONE BY ONE, and DIRECTLY.
MIke……….You directly wrongly answered just ONE, but the BIG ONE you Just Ignored, so lets try againJohn 17:14, says clearly the disciples as well as Jesus was not of or From this world but above, now what part of that do you also disagree with?
So tell us Mike were the disciple from or OF this WORLD and if Not then what World were they OF or FROM MIKE?.
Mike your and you Co-harts remind me of where Jesus said to the Pharisees they were like little childern playing in the market place and calling to one another saying We have piped unto you but you did not dance , we have Mourned unto you but you did not wept.
No Mike we are not going to dance to your and T8 and Pierre, and anyone else's Preexistences tune of Jesus existing as a live Being before his berth on this earth.
peace and love…………………………………………..gene
Gene,
Which version of John 17:14 are you reading? I can't find one that says the disciples were “from above”.
MIke………….Jesus said (EVEN), (that means the same as they were not of this world ) So if you say Jesus was from above them so would be the disciples (ALSO) get it, the Word (EVEN) identifies them the disciples (EXACTLY) as Jesus was .
I will quote it again for you.
John 17:14……> I have given them (YOUR) Word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world (EVEN) as I am not of the World.
Tell us what the word EVEN there Means to you Mike.
peace and love……………………………………………………..gene
John 5:23 (King James Version)
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.Gene, is Jesus saying that he deserves the SAME EXACT honor as the Father deserves?
Mike………If you understood that the FATHER was TRULY (IN) JESUS, and that Jesus put HIS WILL to DEATH, you would have no Problem with Honoring Jesus even as you do the Father, seeing the FATHER was (IN) Him DOING the WORKS, Or have you forgot the scripture that says “He that sees me does not see me but the FATHER, Who was (IN) Him”. and again you must have also forgotten this , Me and MY Father are ONE< and again the son of man can do nothing of himself whatsoever he see the father do, he does the same. If you Honor Jesus as the Father you are honoring the Father also. He was the LOGOS that was (IN) Jesus by his spirit.
Mike why don't you just look up what the words(even as) means,maybe that will clear the cobwebs out. IMO
Also, don't you believe the scriptures you just quoted are you now going to change the words written there again to meant you false teachings also. I do realize you have no problem ignoring scriptures to meet you dogmas and ignoring others that go against them, but then all Preexistence do that or they would nnot be Preexistences. IMO and Others also.
peace and love……………………………………………………………………….gene
peace and love……………………………………………………………..gene
gene
John 5:23 (King James Version)
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.DO YOU KNOW HOW THIS IS POSSIBLE ?? I MEAN BEING BOTH HONORED
Pierre
Gene,
Last chance. Do you know of a scripture that says Jesus' disciples came “from above”? YES or NO?
Either answer it DIRECTLY, or don't bother answering it (or ever addressing me) at all.
I have grown weary of your games. I've had all I can take.
Mike………Again your refuse to answer my question Why don't you believe what Jesus said to Honor Him (EVEN AS) we do the Father? Your stupid insults do not change the fact you refuse to believe what Jesus said. Look up the Words (EVEN AS) for a start .
I personally could care less if you dialog with me or not little man.
peace and love…………………………………………………….gene
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 12 2011,19:21) gene John 5:23 (King James Version)
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.DO YOU KNOW HOW THIS IS POSSIBLE ?? I MEAN BEING BOTH HONORED
Pierre
That's right Pierre. The words “even as” do not mean that Jesus is to receive the SAME EXACT honor as his God. In this case, those words means “also”.Jesus is saying, “You honor the Father. ALSO honor the Son”.
It just means that BOTH of them deserve honor. It does NOT mean the SAME honor.
Just like “even as” in John 17:14 doesn't mean that the disciples came DOWN FROM HEAVEN, like Jesus said HE did.
I am a son of God, EVEN AS Jesus is a son of God. That doesn't mean that everything which applies to Jesus would also apply to me.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 14 2011,18:42) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 12 2011,19:21) gene John 5:23 (King James Version)
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.DO YOU KNOW HOW THIS IS POSSIBLE ?? I MEAN BEING BOTH HONORED
Pierre
That's right Pierre. The words “even as” do not mean that Jesus is to receive the SAME EXACT honor as his God. In this case, those words means “also”.Jesus is saying, “You honor the Father. ALSO honor the Son”.
It just means that BOTH of them deserve honor. It does NOT mean the SAME honor.
Just like “even as” in John 17:14 doesn't mean that the disciples came DOWN FROM HEAVEN, like Jesus said HE did.
I am a son of God, EVEN AS Jesus is a son of God. That doesn't mean that everything which applies to Jesus would also apply to me.
Mikeyes but do you know why it says that both should be honored ?? and why would Christ be honor has the father ?
Pierre
Mike……………Your refusal to see GOD the Father (IN) Jesus is obvious and as a result you cant see that when you Honor Jesus you (ARE) Honoring the Father , it was the Father (IN) Him doing the WORKS> This might help you understand, or twist like you do the rest of scriptures.
John 13:33-32……> Therefore when he was gone out , Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God (IS GLORIFIED) (IN) him verse 32……> if GOD be glorified (IN) Him, God shall a (ALSO) glorify him in (HIMSELF), and shall straightway (GLORIFY) him.
When we Honor Jesus (EVEN AS) we do the FATHER we are HONORING the FATHER because it was the Father (IN) him doing the WORKS. Jesus put himself to death and God and his Logos was working through Him directly. You have not come to see GOD was truly (IN) Jesus yet, that is why i can say the Trinitarians are better off then you Preexistences are becasue they at least see GODS Presents, where you just see a MORPHED ANGEL. Having his own SEPARATE IDENTITY with GOD and MAN . I could give you much more on this but what good is it you refuse to believe the truth of God IMO,
John 17:5…> And now, O Father
GLORIFY THOU ME WITH THINE OWN SELF WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THE GLORY which I had with you before the world was.That was the HOLY SPIRIT or LOGOS from the FATHER that was (IN) Jesus Speaking “through” Jesus' MOUTH. (IT) manifested GOD WORDS to MEN who the FATHER give (IT) the HOLY SPIRIT out of this world out of this world..
This GOD SPIRIT was speaking to us “THROUGH” the MAN JESUS, in this way the LOGOS BECAME FLESH or can to BE (IN) FLESH (IT) was (IN) Jesus Christ our Lord. It is GOD and (IT) was (IN) or GOD was IN the world (IN) JESUS. So we should HONOR the SON (EVEN AS) we HONOR the FATHER. Because the FATHER was (IN) HIM Doing the WORKS. But that does not make Jesus the MAN a GOD no more the it would make you or me a GOD OURSELVES>
Mike you simply do not believe GOD the FATHER was indeed (IN) Jesus now do you? IMO
peace and love………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 14 2011,11:42) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 12 2011,19:21) gene John 5:23 (King James Version)
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.DO YOU KNOW HOW THIS IS POSSIBLE ?? I MEAN BEING BOTH HONORED
Pierre
That's right Pierre. The words “even as” do not mean that Jesus is to receive the SAME EXACT honor as his God. In this case, those words means “also”.Jesus is saying, “You honor the Father. ALSO honor the Son”.
It just means that BOTH of them deserve honor. It does NOT mean the SAME honor.
Just like “even as” in John 17:14 doesn't mean that the disciples came DOWN FROM HEAVEN, like Jesus said HE did.
I am a son of God, EVEN AS Jesus is a son of God. That doesn't mean that everything which applies to Jesus would also apply to me.
Hi Mike,I agree with you here.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTo all………..If you do not honor Jesus (EVEN as YOU DO the FATHER) then you are not honoring the FATHER also.
I am not saying Jesus the MAN is GOD or even equal to him in any way. There is only one true GOD and there is a Glory of GOD which he gives to NO man including Jesus. and there is a GLORY of man and they are not the same Glory. BUT HONOR is HONOR it does not mean any difference to anyone that it is applied to, It simply means to respect Jesus as well as GOD both deserve respect for there positions, Honor in this case means to show respect for Jesus (as) you also respect GOD, and as far as that goes we are told to Honor the King and and his servants and all governments this simply means to show respect for there authority. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………………………….gene
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