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Terricca………….Well Pierre you finely said some intelligent, good Boy now go sit in your corner with your monitor friend.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 28 2011,06:24) Terricca………….Well Pierre you finely said some intelligent, good Boy now go sit in your corner with your monitor friend.
geneI knew you would overlooking the tree fingers to to you ,
let the one without sin trow the first stone ,so you are that first person ,? so you have no sin ?? right
Pierre
Pierre………..You were the first person throwing Stones here long long ago, remember with words Like “it has the smell of the Devil” and so on accusing people all a long. And here is something for you “PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES> And thats THREE Fingers not tree fingers. IMO
peace and love Pierre………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 28 2011,20:50) And thats THREE Fingers not tree fingers.
It's also “WHETHER OR NOT”, not “RATHER OR NOT”.And it's “MODERATOR”, not “MONITOR”.
And it's “COHORT”, not “COHART”.
Just helping you out like you helped out Pierre.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 29 2011,20:50) Pierre………..You were the first person throwing Stones here long long ago, remember with words Like “it has the smell of the Devil” and so on accusing people all a long. And here is something for you “PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES> And thats THREE Fingers not tree fingers. IMO peace and love Pierre………………………………………………gene
geneHow can I believe you that you love me in any way if you keep treading me like you do ?
Pierre
Pierre ………..I am only giving you what you dish out. But be assured i do not resent you only (HOW and What YOU SAY) about people personally here. Not that you do that all the time though Not saying that> We need to all Just focus on the Scriptures and leave personal put down out of or discussions . Just produce what we believe to be true about the subject Matters being discussed and not crossover and start putting people down. You and Mike tend to draw people into personal confrontations and seem to not even try to understand what we are saying when we disagree with your posts. You and Mike simply try to bulldoze over us and use put downs or stupid insulting Icons. Now take what Mike Just did when i reacted to what you posted and your misspelling of a word, WE NEED TO GET OFF THIS PERSONAL PUT DOWN STUFF. Look i am sorry if i offended you so i ask for forgiveness again Pierre. But let all stop insulting and putting people down here. Lets all concentrate on what being said about the subjects were talking about OK? Let show respect to each other even if we disagree, it is good to have salt in us but we still need to have Peace among us also. IMO
Peace and Love to you and your Pierre…………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2011,07:32) Pierre ………..I am only giving you what you dish out. But be assured i do not resent you only (HOW and What YOU SAY) about people personally here. Not that you do that all the time though Not saying that> We need to all Just focus on the Scriptures and leave personal put down out of or discussions . Just produce what we believe to be true about the subject Matters being discussed and not crossover and start putting people down. You and Mike tend to draw people into personal confrontations and seem to not even try to understand what we are saying when we disagree with your posts. You and Mike simply try to bulldoze over us and use put downs or stupid insulting Icons. Now take what Mike Just did when i reacted to what you posted and your misspelling of a word, WE NEED TO GET OFF THIS PERSONAL PUT DOWN STUFF. Look i am sorry if i offended you so i ask for forgiveness again Pierre. But let all stop insulting and putting people down here. Lets all concentrate on what being said about the subjects were talking about OK? Let show respect to each other even if we disagree, it is good to have salt in us but we still need to have Peace among us also. IMO Peace and Love to you and your Pierre…………………………………………………………gene
geneI agree,but this can only be done if we use truth in scriptures as they are lay out in it,
it is accepted that someone as a very different interpretation to some scriptures I do not have a problem with that ,but then let it be known as such,and not be thougth as truth in scriptures ,
what we say on this site let it be for others and so let it be true to Gods word,
what you say ?
Pierre
Mike……..Good them we are all in agreement. Now back to the thread, was Jesus a Morphed Being of any type? My stand is he was not. But he was a Prophesied man to be Born from among men. He was much like Cyrus who was prophesied to be born and what he would do over 200 years before his berth on this earth. He was called the servant of the living GOD. God had no problem bringing into being a Man to fulfill his plan then and i contend that is the same thing with the Man Jesus. The only difference i can see is that God Manipulated his DNA to Look exactly as He said he would through the Prophet Issiah.
Isa 53:2 ….> For he (Jesus) shall (future tense) grow up before him (God) as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground
Now Mike where did he come from it say a ROOT out of DRY GROUND. No where doe it say here a root out of a Past existence but out of DRY GROUND. Are we together on this Mike? It also say that he shall (future tense) grow UP before GOD. Still no mention of any preexistent life what so ever , are we in agreement with this so far Mike?
peace and love……………………………..gene
Yes Gene,
We are in agreement. In fact, all of us pre-existers believe all of the scriptures that speak of Jesus being born and growing up human.
The difference lies in the fact that you non-preexisters ONLY believe those scriptures, and ignore the many other scriptures that say: YES, Jesus was a human being, but he also existed with glory alongside his God before the world was created. In fact, the world was actually created THROUGH him.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,03:23) Yes Gene, We are in agreement. In fact, all of us pre-existers believe all of the scriptures that speak of Jesus being born and growing up human.
The difference lies in the fact that you non-preexisters ONLY believe those scriptures, and ignore the many other scriptures that say: YES, Jesus was a human being, but he also existed with glory alongside his God before the world was created. In fact, the world was actually created THROUGH him.
Mike………I have already went over and over the Word “THROUGH” with you many time and showed where the word “EN” in GREEK is hardly ever written as through in scripture, But sense you INSIST it is THROUGH, then please tell us exactly what Jesus did in this creation Process . Surely with such a positive affirmation of this “THROUGH” PROCESS, Explain that process or at least part of that process what did Jesus do. of supply in this “THROUGH” Process .But what does Scripture truly say about this “THROUGH” Process say. Lets check it out.
Rom 11:32………..> For God has concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33..> O the depth or the riches both of wisdom and knowledge of GOD! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!34 ….> For who has known the mind of the LORD? (GOD) or who has been his counselor? 35…..> Or who has first given to him (GOD) and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36….> Now please notice this MIKE…> For of him (GOD), and “THROUGH” him (GOD), and to him (GOD), are (ALL) things: to whom be glory forever, Amen.
Gene
Compeer Roman 11:36 with Colosians 1: 14-16 and see that the same thing is said from God and Christ ,and it is true in both cases,
Pierre
Pierre………………….It can't be true in both cases or Jesus would be GOD, Because remember we have still the “Original Testament” that say GOD alone and by himself created everything. What i have just quoted in the above Post agree with that. There may be another possibility , and that could be that Col 1:14-16 was referencing the (CHRISTOS) not the man Jesus but the Logos that was Present (IN) Jesus was present and assisted in the creation process, becasue the Logos is GOD and (IT) was (IN) Jesus the anointed or Christos> This is also brought out in
1 Col 10:4…….> And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that “Spiritual” Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ or Christos.
Or the anointing Spirit of GOD which is the Christos that was (IN) Jesus. But because the Anointing was (IN) Jesus did not make Himself that Anointing that was (IN) Him, Now if that were to apply the idea of the word Though, meaning that, then that might fit, becasue indeed the Spirit that was and is GOD was (IN) Jesus the Man. So from that point of view we could say the world was created through the CHRISTOS or Holy Spirit of the Living GOD that abides (IN) Jesus .
Peace and love………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2011,19:46) For of him (GOD), and “THROUGH” him (GOD), and to him (GOD), are (ALL) things: to whom be glory forever, Amen.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Because all is from him, and in him, and all is by him, that to him would be praises and blessings to the eternity of eternities. Amen.GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Everything is from him and by him and for him. Glory belongs to him forever! Amen!Gene, in this case, the word “dia” is properly translated as “by”, not “through”.
Btw, I noticed you went right for the “through him” part of what I said. Why not comment on the other scriptural reference I made: “He had glory alongside God before the world was created”.
My point was that you non-preexisters ONLY want to believe the scriptures that speak of Jesus' humanity. Why? Why base your understanding on only PART OF the scriptures?
Gene, your Lord said, “I came down from heaven”, and “what if you see me ascend to where I WAS BEFORE?”
Gene, why do you call him Lord, and not believe his own words?
Mike………….I absolutely believe his words but it's your trinitarians Preexistent rational i don't believe . Your failure to understand scriptures have been tweaked to force a wrong perception of Jesus >
You asked why we want to ONLY Speak of Jesus' Humanity. Because what would a “MORPHED” Being have to do with us anyway, what example would an angle “disgusted” as a Human prove to anyone about overcoming our fleshly existence Morphing a Preexistent being and Passing him off as a Man . Is completely our of the character of the God I read about in scriptures, Now if he took an ordinary man, as ADAM was and perfected him and this ordinary man overcame by the power of God and died and was resurrected back to life as a Man I sure would have a “PERFECT” Example of what i should try to copy and more i would Know it is Just as Possible for Me as it was for a man who is (EXACTLY) like me in (EVERY WAY) Jesus himself said he was a SON OF MAN over 80 times as i recall so i would ask you why don't you believe His words? I believe separating Jesus from our (EXACT IDENTITY) is a major work of SATAN , which down plays GOD Work (IN) a ordinary MAN, it removes GOD Glory from HIM by saying Jesus preexisted as some Kind of Being with all this knowledge of a past existence he would NOT be a TRUE HUMAN BEING at all, but a MORPHED BEING>
The over all movement in this Preexistent Jesus thing is to move focus away from GOD the FATHER and Focus on Jesus as a separated from humanity being. This false IMAGE of JESUS is exactly what both Paul and John fought becasue this LIE turns Jesus into a the MAN OF SIN mentioned in 2Thes 2 , and those who do n ot love the Truth of God “will send unto them a deluding Spiirt (intellect) in order for them to believe the LIE And that LIE is to Believe Jesus Preexisted His Berth on this earth it completely changes the true IMAGE of JESUS a PURE BORN INTO EXISTENCE HUMAN BEING it works to Move HIM away from Us Human Beings. And I tell you it will be the First thing Jesus will abolish at his return. Mike You really need to study 2 Thes 2 the complete thing and think about each part written there, the Man of sin is the turning Jesus into a God or something different then we are it creating a false IMAGE of HIM> There is no “REAL Man of SIN it is JUST a FALSE IMAGE Of JESUS.
peace and love…………………………………………………………………………..
……..geneGene,
Three things:
1. Please refrain from linking me, Pierre, and t8 with Trinitarians. YOU said we would discuss without the name-calling. Please honor your own word. I am not a Trinitarian, nor do I believe that Jesus is the God he is the Son of.
2. I have heard your rhetoric about how you WANT Jesus to have been “just like us” about a million times now. It is not addressing my points to just keep posting your WISHES for Jesus to be like us over and over. I repeat, we all know WHY you WANT the scriptures to teach that Jesus was nothing more than a man. What I want to deal with is how the scriptures DON'T actually teach what you guys WANT them to teach.
3. Will you now address how it is that you “believe” Jesus, but don't believe him when he said he came down from heaven and would ascend back to there again?
peace,
mikeMike……….I have never said you T8 and Pierre (ARE) Trinitarians , what i said is you have also “LIKE” They do a PREEXISTENCE view of Jesus Doctrine. I full well know you are not believers in Jesus being a Preexistent “GOD” , but that does not preclude you from Beliving Jesus Preexisted as they also do. In fact they also believe God created everything “THROUGH” the GOD JESUS. And that Mike is Not name calling it is Just a Fact you Both Believe in the Preexistence of Jesus and Preach Doctrines backing that up. Why do you even consider that as a “Name Calling” Anyway? Do you think Trinitarians are beneath you?
I look at it all as the same overall view they have concerning Jesus' Preexistence as a sentinel Being of some kind, It really is not much different then your views really , Just a different title of who Jesus was , but as concerning his preexistence as a Being there is NO difference, Just the “TYPE” Of being is the issue. No personal put down Mike to the Trinitarians or YOU. I disagree with Both you and them by the way, and that is not put down either, Just a Fact. IMO
peace and love………………………………………………………………..gene
gene
Quote I disagree with Both you and them by the way, and that is not put down either, Just a Fact. IMO could you walking me trough your scriptures no more than 4 or 5 the ones who are the most critical to support your believe ,I would like to see and understand you better ,OK
Pierre
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