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[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 24 2013,15:04)

Wakeup, Do you believe that in the cases where men are said to see the face of God are really speaking of angels?   Jacob said he saw God face to face and his life was preserved.  What danger threatened him that his life was preserved?

Hi Kerwin.

I had this discussion with MikeB.
See genesis 32:24–29. Hosea12:4.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Jesus own words:
No man has seen God or heard his voice.
You can refute this;or accept.

When God himself appears;the mountains and hills will melt.

wakeup.

[942767]

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 24 2013,17:51)

Jesus own words: No man has seen God or heard his voice. You can refute this;or accept. When God himself appears;the mountains and hills will melt. wakeup.

HI WAKEUP:

Is the scripture to which you refer?  If so, where does it say that “no man has heard his voice at any time?”

Quote

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

Love in Christ,
Marty

[abe]

Hi Marty,

Jn.5:37   And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Peace brother……

[mikeboll64]

Yes Abe,

Wakeup was linking the two scriptures together.  But Jesus said the words you quoted to a specific group of Pharisees with whom he was arguing.  Those particular Pharisees had never heard God's voice – although we know from scripture that men indeed heard the voice of God in Exodus 20.  (See verses 19 and 22)

In John 1:18, on the other hand, it was a generic statement meant to include ALL men.  So the bottom line is that certain men DID in fact hear God's voice, but none of them, including Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Manoah, have ever seen the face of God.

[942767]

Quote (abe @ Aug. 25 2013,03:16)

Hi Marty, Jn.5:37   And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Peace brother……

Hi Abe:

Thanks, but Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. We know that there were those who did hear God's voice at Mt. Sinai.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 24 2013,12:43)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 24 2013,15:04) Wakeup, Do you believe that in the cases where men are said to see the face of God are really speaking of angels?   Jacob said he saw God face to face and his life was preserved.  What danger threatened him that his life was preserved? Hi Kerwin. I had this discussion with MikeB. See genesis 32:24–29. Hosea12:4. wakeup.

Wakeup,

I read Scriptures but I want to know where you are coming from.

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 25 2013,02:22)

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 24 2013,17:51) Jesus own words: No man has seen God or heard his voice. You can refute this;or accept. When God himself appears;the mountains and hills will melt. wakeup. HI WAKEUP: Is the scripture to which you refer?  If so, where does it say that “no man has heard his voice at any time?” Quote Jhn 1:18   No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his *voice* at any time, nor seen his shape.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2013,03:42)

Yes Abe, Wakeup was linking the two scriptures together.  But Jesus said the words you quoted to a specific group of Pharisees with whom he was arguing.  Those particular Pharisees had never heard God's voice – although we know from scripture that men indeed heard the voice of God in Exodus 20.  (See verses 19 and 22) In John 1:18, on the other hand, it was a generic statement meant to include ALL men.  So the bottom line is that certain men DID in fact hear God's voice, but none of them, including Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Manoah, have ever seen the face of God.

Hi Mike.

No man has ever heard Gods voice,even Adam.
That was the son of God speaking.
Sometimes God send his angel.(ex.3:2).
God has given all his work to the Son.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, ***I said,*** Ye are gods? SEE gen3:22.

(That *I* = the Son/Jesus.)

Gen.3:22. And the **LORD GOD SAID**; behold,the man is become as one of us,to know good and evil—-
(That was the Son speaking).

No man has heard Gods voice,or seen his shape.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 25 2013,00:14)

Hi Mike. No man has ever heard Gods voice,even Adam. That was the son of God speaking. Sometimes God send his angel.(ex.3:2). God has given all his work to the Son.

Perhaps. I do know that angels of YHWH were often addressed as “YHWH” when they came to represent Him.

I'll give that some thought.

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……….God is a Spiirt he can indwell any flesh of any kind, and can Speak through them also, Even the Demonic Spirits can speak through a man also, as scripture plainly shows. The problem here is most do not even understand what a Spirit or can do. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2013,20:19)

To All……….God is a Spiirt he can indwell any flesh of any kind, and can Speak through them also, Even the Demonic Spirits can speak through a man also, as scripture plainly shows. The problem here is most do not even understand what a Spirit or can do. IMO peace and love to you all…………………………….gene

you are totally lost ;

MT 7:16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
MT 7:20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.

try ,to take a deep breath ,to the true understanding ,

[abe]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,08:54)

Quote (abe @ Aug. 25 2013,03:16) Hi Marty, Jn.5:37   And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Peace brother…… Hi Abe: Thanks, but Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees.  We know that there were those who did hear God's voice at Mt. Sinai. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Marty,

(Quote)
Thanks, but Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees.

Why do you believe this? ……‘Only’  the Pharisees.

Peace brother……

[942767]

Quote (abe @ Sep. 02 2013,04:01)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,08:54) Quote (abe @ Aug. 25 2013,03:16) Hi Marty, Jn.5:37   And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Peace brother…… Hi Abe: Thanks, but Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees.  We know that there were those who did hear God's voice at Mt. Sinai. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, (Quote) Thanks, but Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. Why do you believe this? ……‘Only’  the Pharisees. Peace brother……

Well, Abe, the scriptures state that God spoke to Moses face to face for one thing,

Quote

Exd 19:16 ¶ And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that [was] in the camp trembled.   Exd 19:17   And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.   Exd 19:18   And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.   Exd 19:19   And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

He spoke to Adam

Quote

Gen 3:9 ¶ And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou?   Gen 3:10   And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself.

He spoke to Noah:

Quote

Gen 6:13   And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

He spoke to Abraham

Quote

Gen 17:1 ¶ And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

And, I pretty sure there were others.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[GeneBalthrop]

Abe……..I do believe God does and can speak to a person directly, with his own words . I have personally heard him a few times in my life an audible voice, rather in my mind or outside of it, I don't know. But once when I went to pick up my daughter at the shiner hospital , where she's had a surgery performed to help her walk better, I went into a room that had other children there, my daughter was so glad to see me, and told me about her friend she had met , and when I turnd to meet her new little friend , I couldn't believe my eyes.

The site was so terrible I could hardly speak , it completely shocked me to my core, I managed to  smile and say Hi to her, her whole body was complete deformed her face was so terrible deformed , I was about to breake down and cry right there in front of them all, so I said I needed a drink of water and immediately left the room and went into a large hall wher there was a bench, tears streaming down my face, I look up and said to God ” how could you allow this to happen to that little girl , how could you a God of love be that cruel? And there came this very soft voice and said, I did that for your sake Gene notice the words “I did that” so God the Father himself was taking full responsibility for her condition.

I came to understand, God was using that little girl to soften people's hearts and teach appreciation for what He has given us. But it was an audible voice I heard, rather just in my head or outside of me, I do not know.

There were other times this happened also , once when I was driving and a voice said suddenly, Hit your breakers ,he's going to turn into you It startled me so I just slammed my breakers on and started to skid, the trailer of the truck pulling into my lane just missed my pickup trucks front finder by about a foot. There was a truck and trailer in both lanes on either side of me also, I would never survived if he hit me. There were other times also but I could not tell if the voice was internal  ( which I believe it was) or external, I could not tell. I will swear before God, what I have written here is true.

I also know that God, first person can  speak through a person mouth, I have also had that happen to me before, I was not that smart to have said what came out of my mouth when it happened ,  it just blurted out suddenly and so confounded my accuser,  the person I said it to , he had no response, but just stammered and there were many witness there who witness it. I know God also spoke directly through Jesus' mouth at times and other times he simply revealed to Jesus what he wanted him to say, both things God does in humans. IMO

Peace and love to the ISRAEL of God…………………………….gene

[kerwin]

Quote (abe @ Sep. 01 2013,23:01)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,08:54) Quote (abe @ Aug. 25 2013,03:16) Hi Marty, Jn.5:37   And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Peace brother…… Hi Abe: Thanks, but Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees.  We know that there were those who did hear God's voice at Mt. Sinai. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, (Quote) Thanks, but Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. Why do you believe this? ……‘Only’  the Pharisees. Peace brother……

Abe,

Don't be confused by the poetic form of Jesus' speech.

Only nonbelievers do not hear as they do not have the ears to hear. They are but mere men.

Scripture states that those that were called the children literally heard the voice of their Father as he spoke the first Ten Commandments to them and hearing it they were afraid.

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 02 2013,08:49)

Quote (abe @ Sep. 02 2013,04:01) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 24 2013,08:54) Quote (abe @ Aug. 25 2013,03:16) Hi Marty, Jn.5:37   And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Peace brother…… Hi Abe: Thanks, but Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees.  We know that there were those who did hear God's voice at Mt. Sinai. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, (Quote) Thanks, but Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. Why do you believe this? ……‘Only’  the Pharisees. Peace brother…… Well, Abe, the scriptures state that God spoke to Moses face to face for one thing, Quote Exd 19:16 ¶ And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that [was] in the camp trembled.   Exd 19:17   And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.   Exd 19:18   And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.   Exd 19:19   And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. He spoke to Adam Quote Gen 3:9 ¶ And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou?   Gen 3:10   And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself. He spoke to Noah: Quote Gen 6:13   And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. He spoke to Abraham Quote Gen 17:1 ¶ And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And, I pretty sure there were others. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

Jesus meant what he said.
No man has heard Gods voice or seen his shape.

Exodus 3:2 **And the angel** of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

The other men with Moses only heard a voice like thunder.
****

Notice Jesus said: God is *A*
spirit. Not God is spirit.
Angels are spirit.Jesus was made spirit.
*A* spirit is the force of the universe and heaven.
He can manifest into anything.
That forece is all around everything.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
God is A Spirit ?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 24 2013,20:26)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 24 2013,18:40) Hi T8, Our one God YHVH, can be illustrated as a pattern of Five. You are conveniently omitting the oneness aspect of YHVH. (taken from a previous conversation) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2012,19:22) Ed J. We only have to merge our correctnesses and it is a win win. Thanks Ed J. Hi T8, quite correct. Luke 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be FIVE IN ONE HOUSE divided, three(Trins) against two(non-Trins), and two(non-Trins) against three(Trins). The Trins see God as three…                        <– An incomplete picture The non-Trins see God as One…                   <– and Jesus as a smaller version of God The complete picture  –>                                 <– Merge the two ideas together, and the big picture begins to emerge   “And the [HolyCity] lieth “FourSquare”, and the length is as large as the breadth:” (Rev 21:16) Ezekiel 43:16: And the altar shall be twelve cubits long, twelve broad, square in the “Four Squares” thereof. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org EDJ> Your logic is flesh, and it has gone worse spititually. God says I am one God and there is NONE beside me. Jesus is his Son that he has AUTHORISED to do a job. All his powers comes from the ONE GOD,his Father. His power is Godly,GIVEN to him to do A job. He has given all the power,but that does not make him His father.We must honour and worship him,because he is Gods right hand, placed as a MEDIATOR. No one can go straight to God,we must go through the MEDIATOR,and he will pass the message to HIS GOD. God gave some power to raise the dead,but that does not make them God. His Son created all things,by the power OF GOD. All source of power comes from the ONE GOD. THE ISMS ARE CREATED BY MEN BECAUSE OF CONFUSION,THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND,AND THEY WILL END UP IN A DITCH. wakeup.

Hi WU,
We can come boldly to the throne of Grace[heb4]

We have access in the one Spirit to the Father.[eph 2.18]

[Wakeup]

Nick.

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

You are just reading words,but dont understand what it is really saying.

wakeup.

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