ISM Scale

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,14:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2013,18:39)

MIKE AND I BELIEVE IN ONLY ONE GOD JEHOVAH AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN MEN AND GOD HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ,SO STOP LYING

Amen! I posted my response about 2B's lies before I even read that you said the same thing.

I don't fault you for being upset, Pierre. It also upset me because 2B knows exactly what he's doing. He is “grandstanding” a lie, when he knows it is a lie.

He has been warned, and hopefully will honor that warning.

Is that why Teraricca cannot answer honestly the question that I posted?

August 13, 2013 at 1:07 am#354964

Blocked

Answer my questions, 2B. Do YOU personally consider Satan to be the God of this age? YES or NO?

Do you personally cap the “G” when referring to gods that aren't Jehovah? YES or NO?

If YES, then don't let me catch you NOT doing it in the future. If NO, then don't play dumb as if you don't know that a capital letter at the beginning of an English word gives the subject of that word more importance, or a higher position than the same word with a lower case first letter.

August 13, 2013 at 1:08 am#354965

942767

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,12:00)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,18:47)

Hi Pierre:

Are we going to go over this over and over again?

I have already acknowledged that Satan is called “the god of this world”, and he is “a god” to those who obey him………..

But he was “a god” to Paul, and Paul didn't obey him……….. so your reasoning is faulty – as I've already shown you a couple of days ago.

So I guess we'll keep going over it until you accept the fact that as far as Paul was concerned, Satan was a god – EVEN THOUGH Paul didn't obey him.

Are you ready to accept this plain to see scriptural FACT?

He wa “a god” to Paul? Paul said that “he was the god of this world”.

And it was Paul who penned the following scripture:

Quote

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Love in Christ,
Marty

August 13, 2013 at 1:10 am#354966

abe

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2013,15:55)

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,17:47)

How many Gods are there to you?

A) There is only one God.
B) There are two Gods.
C) There are three Gods.
D) There are many Gods.

Only answer A, B, C, or D, without adding or changing anything such as caps.

Oh………… in that case I'm a letter A.

Hi Mike,

(Quote)
Oh………… in that case I'm a letter A.

Jam.1:5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him Ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6But he must ask In faith without any Doubting, for the one who Doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, 8[being] a Double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

Peace………………………..

August 13, 2013 at 1:12 am#354967

Blocked

Marty

So I guess we'll keep going over it until you accept the fact that as far as Paul was concerned, Satan was a god – EVEN THOUGH Paul didn't obey him.

Are you ready to accept this plain to see scriptural FACT?

Please ANSWER THE QUESTION.

August 13, 2013 at 1:18 am#354968

Blocked

Okay Abe and 2B,

You guys are starting to really piss me off. It is not a smart idea to piss off the moderator of the site.

Listen closely:

Pierre and I believe that there do indeed exist many gods, just like scripture CLEARLY teaches. We believe that only one of these many gods is the MOST HIGH God, Jehovah. And it is ONLY the MOST HIGH God Jehovah to whom we attribute a capital “G”. All others are less high gods than Jehovah, and so we don't attribute a capital “G” to those less high gods.

This is also how it is done by every English translator who ever translated the scriptures into English.

Do you have any questions?

August 13, 2013 at 1:36 am#354971

942767

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,10:38)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,08:50)

Hi Mike:

Please show me the scriptures relative to the Apostle Paul saying that Satan is “a god” or that he was “a god” to him.

2 Cor 4:4. And by “to him”, I mean “as far as Paul is concerned”, Satan is a god. I didn't mean that Satan is Paul's god………… as should have been evident from one of my very recent posts to you – where I said plain and clear that the fact Paul recognizes Satan as the god that he is does not mean Satan is Paul's god.

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,08:50)

Is the following scripture or not?

Quote

1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

Yep. The entire statement is scripture, Marty. So why is it that you only believe the last part?

And why would you take those claims in the last part as LITERAL statements when you know full well Jesus is NOT literally the ONLY lord in existence?

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,08:50)

I see also that you have a difficult time in understanding what I and others have been saying relative to God calling his representatives “god” or “gods” because of John 1.

Is Satan a representative of Jehovah? Then why is HE called a god by both Paul and Jehovah Himself?

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,08:50)

If in John 1, “the Word” is Jesus as a sentient person, then John 1c “and the was God” would indicate that “Jesus is God”, and “he has indicated that he is not God”. He said that “he is the Christ, the Son of the living God”.

I am well aware that Jesus is not the MOST HIGH god, but instead the Son OF that One.

But are YOU aware that John 1:1c can just as faithfully be translated as “and the Word was a god”? Even the Trinitarian scholars acknowledge this as a completely possible translation, Marty.

So do you believe the words Jehovah spoke through Isaiah in 9:6 – that Jesus would be called a mighty god? If you believe those words, and you know that “a god” is a perfectly acceptable translation of John 1:1c, then all that's left is for you to add 1+1, Marty.

If Jesus IS called a mighty god like the MOST HIGH god told us he would be, then what prohibits John 1:1 from being one of the scriptures in which he is called “a god”?

This is why you must have ALL of the info, Marty…….. not just the stuff you've been told, and not just the stuff you WANT to believe.

The FACT of the matter is that there are many others who are not only CALLED gods by Jehovah and certain inspired writers of scripture, but who also PERFORMED in a way that only a god could. (Water into blood, calling fire from heaven, staffs into snakes, bringing wrath down upon the Israelites, telling the future, etc.)

I realize that you guys don't WANT to believe these scriptural truths for PERSONAL reasons. But your WANTS don't have anything to do with the fact that these truths are in the scriptures anyway. They're not going away….. and neither am I.

Hi ike:

Paul said that “the god of this world has blinded…”. Is not that what he said?

And so, through this he acknowledges that Satan is “a god” to those who are blinded by his deception, and so, yes, he is a god to those who obey him.

I believe the scripture as is stated in 1 Co 8:5 and 8:6.

Of course, there are those who are “lords” to those who are their subjects. Sarah called Abraham “lord”.

But no, if John 1c is translated “a god” and it refers to Jesus, then it would not be consistent with what Jesus states in the following scripture:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent

Jesus said there is “One True God”, not two, a true God and “a god”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

August 13, 2013 at 2:11 am#354972

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,19:36)

Hi ike:

Paul said that “the god of this world has blinded…”. Is not that what he said?

And so, through this he acknowledges that Satan is “a god” to those who are blinded by his deception, and so, yes, he is a god to those who obey him.

Marty, how many times do I have to say this?

1. Did Paul obey Satan? YES or NO?

2. Was Paul blinded by Satan when he wrote 2 Cor 4:4? YES or NO?

3. Even though Paul was neither of these two things, did Paul STILL call Satan a god? YES or NO?

You are trying to “justify” your belief by pretending you can't actually see what I'm asking you. Just answer the questions honestly from now on, and you will learn these scriptural facts much more quickly.

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,19:36)

But no, if John 1c is translated “a god” and it refers to Jesus, then it would not be consistent with what Jesus states in the following scripture:

Quote

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent

Jesus said there is “One True God”, not two, a true God and “a god”.

Are you really that blinded by your own personal wishes?

1. Did Jesus also say only God was good? YES or NO?

2. Did Jesus then go on to call himself the good shepherd, and teach about how the GOOD man brings GOOD things out of the GOODNESS of his heart? YES or NO?

3.Did Jehovah also say there was no SAVIOR besides Himself? YES or NO?

4. Did He then proceed to SEND many others SAVIORS to His people, including Jesus Christ? YES or NO?

5. Do you know the basic meaning of “el” and “theos” is “mighty one”? YES or NO?

6. And would you take the scripture you quoted as literally if it was translated as, that they might know thee the only true Mighty One, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”?

7. Or would you then understand it to be the emphatic statement that it was? (Surely you know that Jesus spoke of the ones to whom the word of God came being “gods”, right? Does God send His word to “false gods”, Marty?)

Come on, man. You HAVE TO start thinking these things out. You guys are all like broken records. You can't actually refute the fact that Paul considered Satan a god, even though he didn't obey him and wasn't blinded by him, so you just keep posting “one god” verses and insisting they are LITERAL – when it is clear from the scriptures as a whole that they AREN'T.

Jehovah isn't LITERALLY the ONLY savior. And he is not LITERALLY the ONLY mighty one/el/theos/god.

Marty, Jehovah is the God of gods. He can't possibly be that unless there exist other gods.

Stick around in Keith's new thread. We're about to tear it up in that thread.

I don't want to keep saying the same things in two threads at the same time, so I'll probably beg off of any more discussion here.

August 13, 2013 at 2:59 am#354975

Participant

Quote

Answer my questions, 2B. Do YOU personally consider Satan to be the God of this age? YES or NO?

NO.

Quote

Do you personally cap the “G” when referring to gods that aren't Jehovah? YES or NO?

NO, Because I do not call anything else a God/god. There is only one true God.

Quote

If NO, then don't play dumb as if you don't know that a capital letter at the beginning of an English word gives the subject of that word more importance, or a higher position than the same word with a lower case first letter.

Not so when we are told that there is only one God.
Capping the letter or not capping the letter makes no difference.

To a Christian, there is only one God. True or False?

To you, Teraricca, LU, and WJ, there are TWO Gods (theos) in John 1:1!

August 13, 2013 at 3:02 am#354977

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,07:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,14:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2013,18:39)

MIKE AND I BELIEVE IN ONLY ONE GOD JEHOVAH AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN MEN AND GOD HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ,SO STOP LYING

Amen! I posted my response about 2B's lies before I even read that you said the same thing.

I don't fault you for being upset, Pierre. It also upset me because 2B knows exactly what he's doing. He is “grandstanding” a lie, when he knows it is a lie.

He has been warned, and hopefully will honor that warning.

Is that why Teraricca cannot answer honestly the question that I posted?

2bee

I did not see your question but now I did see it ,you like “control ” and yet like to place rules to others but no scriptures ,it is your way that is not Orthodox,but any way you have my answer I give it to you ,

August 13, 2013 at 3:12 am#354978

Participant

2bee

Quote

To you, Teraricca, LU, and WJ, there are TWO Gods (theos) in John 1:1!

this is the million time that we tell you ;scriptures John 1;;1 -the one that was in the beginning , is not the one that he is with him ,

I have answered you with what scripture really saying ;now your version does not make sens just like Mike as shown you ,BUT YOU CAN NOT CHANGE WHAT YOU ARE ,SO YOU HAVE TO SAY WHAT EVER YOU SAY ;

BUT FOR YOU INFO ;QUESTION ;DOES THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT CHRIST IS CALLED A god =MIGHTY YES OR no

August 13, 2013 at 3:42 am#354980

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,16:02)

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,07:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,14:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2013,18:39)

MIKE AND I BELIEVE IN ONLY ONE GOD JEHOVAH AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN MEN AND GOD HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ,SO STOP LYING

Amen! I posted my response about 2B's lies before I even read that you said the same thing.

I don't fault you for being upset, Pierre. It also upset me because 2B knows exactly what he's doing. He is “grandstanding” a lie, when he knows it is a lie.

He has been warned, and hopefully will honor that warning.

Is that why Teraricca cannot answer honestly the question that I posted?

2bee

Teraricca,

No, you did not answer the question as I worded it.

How many Gods are there to you?

A) There is only one God.
B) There are two Gods.
C) There are three Gods.
D) There are many Gods.

Only answer A, B, C, or D, without adding anything. Thanks.

(I am only trying to see how you understand:
“There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
The Greek word used is “theos” which equals God or god.)

August 13, 2013 at 3:49 am#354981

Participant

Teraricca,
You know that I believe that the word in John 1:1 was God's own word, spoken. So, it does make sense to me. And I know that it is certainly not two gods.

The other verse,
My answer is: I do not know!

August 13, 2013 at 4:11 am#354982

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,09:42)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,16:02)

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,07:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,14:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2013,18:39)

MIKE AND I BELIEVE IN ONLY ONE GOD JEHOVAH AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN MEN AND GOD HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ,SO STOP LYING

Amen! I posted my response about 2B's lies before I even read that you said the same thing.

I don't fault you for being upset, Pierre. It also upset me because 2B knows exactly what he's doing. He is “grandstanding” a lie, when he knows it is a lie.

He has been warned, and hopefully will honor that warning.

Is that why Teraricca cannot answer honestly the question that I posted?

2bee

Teraricca,

No, you did not answer the question as I worded it.

How many Gods are there to you?

A) There is only one God.
B) There are two Gods.
C) There are three Gods.
D) There are many Gods.

Only answer A, B, C, or D, without adding anything. Thanks.

(I am only trying to see how you understand:
“There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
The Greek word used is “theos” which equals God or god.)

2bee

Their is only one almighty God whom his name is Jehovah ,and that as a son called The Word of God and also Jesus Christ ,that came down from the father to sacrifice his human live to save men from their sins so that we may be reconciled with his father ,if we now obey him and change our ways and reach for holiness ,

Sorry,but I have answered you the way I REALY do Beleive it is,

Your abcd seems to be no clear to me, so if you can not understand my answer you have a problem,not me

August 13, 2013 at 4:17 am#354983

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,09:49)

Teraricca,
You know that I believe that the word in John 1:1 was God's own word, spoken. So, it does make sense to me. And I know that it is certainly not two gods.

The other verse,
My answer is: I do not know!

2bee

Why do you not change the words god by mighty one, would this be better

August 13, 2013 at 6:57 am#354990

kerwin

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,06:14)

Quote

“There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”

Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!

So then, Mike, Teraricca, LU, and Kerwin (?) would say:

There is many Gods and one mediator between the many Gods and men, the God Christ Jesus.

A trinitarian would have it say:
There are three Gods and one mediator between the three Gods and men, the God Christ Jesus. (Isn't that four?!)

When what it actually says is:

“There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Who would be correct, according to that clear scripture?
The ones who believe it as it says?

2besee

Quote

So then, Mike, Teraricca, LU, and Kerwin (?) would say:

There is many Gods and one mediator between the many Gods and men, the God Christ Jesus.

There is one God and one mediator between the one God and the gods, the god Christ Jesus.

There is one God and one mediator between the one God and the sons of God, the Son of God Christ Jesus.

There is one God and one mediator between the one Gods and believers, the Believer Christ Jesus.

There is one LORD and one mediator between the one LORD and the lords, the Lord Christ Jesus.

There is one GOD and one mediator between the one GOD and the gods, the God Christ Jesus.

Note: case is important to the message.

August 13, 2013 at 7:13 am#354992