ISM Scale

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,15:27)

The NIV is no more perfect than the KJV but God is alive and active.

That is irrelevant to my question.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,15:27)

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,08:54) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,13:33) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,07:01) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,11:18) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,04:18) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,04:15) Quote (t8 @ July 26 2013,17:29) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14) Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary. I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged. T8, Ed seems to believe the NIV is flawed because it states Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering instead of offer him as one.  I pointed out that Merriam-Websters reveals that in some cases sacrifice and offer mean the same thing.  He continued to insist they do not mean the same thing. Hi Kerwin, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, Sacrifice and offer up mean the same thing in that context. Is that a “Yes” to my question? Ed, Hebrews 11:17 New International Version (NIV) 17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, Hi Kerwin, Is your answer to my question “Yes”?    …or is it “No”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, It is not a yes or no discussion.

Hi Kerwin,

Yes it is a “Yes” or “No” question.
Since you are refusing to answer here,
you force me to put you on the “Hot Seat”.

You can now answer it there…   (Link)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Ed,

Your question is irrelevant to the discussion as offering as a burnt offering and sacrifice are one and the same.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2013,04:31)

Ed, Your question is irrelevant to the discussion as offering as a burnt offering and sacrifice are one and the same.

Hi Kerwin,

If you continue to refuse to answer, I will be forced
to report your post to a moderator for disciplinary action.  (Link)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2013,02:41)

Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2013,04:31) Ed, Your question is irrelevant to the discussion as offering as a burnt offering and sacrifice are one and the same. Hi Kerwin, If you continue to refuse to answer, I will be forced to report your post to a moderator for disciplinary action.  (Link) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed,

It is a trick question because you know your point is unsound.

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,09:18)

“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer)

Hi Kerwin,

Quite the contrary, my question is very sound. And you
refusing to answer exposes the weakness of your argument.

In the “Hot-Seat” you are required to answer my question,
unless of course T8 has changed his MUST-ANSWER rule.  
Here is the Hot-Seat link where you must answer… (Link)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Kerwin,

I'm willing to discuss any matter about the bible,
but when one refuses to answer questions
it shows a certain degree of insincerity.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

To Everyone,

Why do people work so hard to protect Satan's deceptions?

“All things that are reproved are made manifest by the light:
 for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” (Eph. 5:13)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2013,16:55)

Hi Kerwin, I'm willing to discuss any matter about the bible, but when one refuses to answer questions it shows a certain degree of insincerity. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet,
 they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If
 ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye
 shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.” (Isaiah 1:18-20)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,23:49)

Hi Kerwin, Quite the contrary, my question is very sound. And you refusing to answer exposes the weakness of your argument.

Your question is a trick question, Ed.

You have to ask yourself:  What exactly did God tell Abraham to do?  

The truthful answer is that God told Abraham to go to the mountain and sacrifice his son Isaac there.  That is why Abraham took his son, rope, a knife, wood, and fire with him.  

We can honestly say that Abraham offered (was willing) to offer (sacrifice) his son – but God stopped him before he made the offering.  And that is what is said in Hebrews.

But the original command in Genesis had nothing to do with being willing to sacrifice his son.  The command was to offer him AS a burnt offering……. which means the original command was to SACRIFICE Isaac.

Ed, I thought you were more intelligent than you're letting on right now.  

And all for what?  To convince us that the NIV has flaws in it?  Okay, we concede that every English Bible has flaws in it.   Can we move on now?

[kerwin]

Ed,

Satan is blinding you at the moment or you would see that either “offer” or “sacrifice” can be used in Genesis 22:2 without changing the meaning.

Genesis 22:2
King James Version (KJV)

2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and sacrifice him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

As you can see both variations mean the same thing and the Hebrew word “alah” means “to go up, ascend, climb” and the like.

Genesis 22:2
New International Version (NIV)

2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”

There is some other minor changes but nothing that changes the meaning.

As mike stated the NIV, like the KJV has flaws.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2013,05:47)

Ed, Satan is blinding you at the moment or you would see that either “offer” or “sacrifice” can be used in Genesis 22:2 without changing the meaning. Genesis 22:2 King James Version (KJV) 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and sacrifice him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. As you can see both variations mean the same thing and the Hebrew word “alah” means “to go up, ascend, climb” and the like. Genesis 22:2 New International Version (NIV) 2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.” There is some other minor changes but nothing that changes the meaning.   As mike stated the NIV, like the KJV has flaws.

Hi Kerwin,

Complaining and name-calling will not work, YOU are
required to answer my question in the Hot-Seat! (Link)

…unless T8 has changed to rules of the Hot-Seat section!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Ed,

I did not complain or call you names, I said Satan is blinding you.

The point you are dodging is that Genesis 22:2 in the KJV expresses the same idea as Genesis 22:2 does in the NIV.  

You have introduced Hebrews 11:17 and both the NIV version and the KJV mean the same thing even though the NIV's version is more worthy.

Hebrews 11:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Hebrews 11:17
New International Version (NIV)

17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,

[GeneBalthrop]

T8….. Where did you get Mike and you believes in only one God, that is not what you preach, you believe Jesus is a God also. Lets be honest here for a change you guys believe in many Gods and preach it. The only difference is you believe in “little” gods , you preach them as true Gods, even though Jesus said in prayer THOU ART THE “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD, which leaves all there so -called Gods as false Gods, and Jesus never said He was a GOD ever, not so much as one time in all his ministers did he ever say it. face it you need Jesus to be seen as a Gd to fit your false teaching as the Word , in John being Jesus. A complete false teaching so, don't give us this you believe in one God thing, that simply is not true. IMO

Peace and love…………………………gene

[Ed J]

Hi Gene,

You're right Gene, not understanding “The Word” in John 1:1  has spawned many a
false doctrine, making everything else adjust to the common misconception it is Jesus.
Once people realize “The Word” is GOD's HolySpirit, all the pieces fall neatly into place.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 29 2013,14:31)

T8….. Where did you get Mike and you believes in only one God, that is not what you preach, you believe Jesus is a God also. Lets be honest here for a change you guys believe in many Gods and preach it.

Gene,

Jehovah is the Most High God. Name a couple of the less high gods He is higher than.

Jehovah is the God of gods. Name a couple of the gods Jehovah is the God of.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 30 2013,07:31)

T8….. Where did you get Mike and you  believes in only one God, that is not what you preach, you believe Jesus is a God also.

Clearly you do not understand what I believe. I have explained it before. If you cannot grasp it, then that is not my fault. But you should at least be silent on that which you do not understand, otherwise you start to venture toward bearing false witness of your neighbor.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8….. Why should I be silent if I don't understand it I doubt others do either. So lets clear it up NOW, do you or don't you preach Jesus is a “true” God who existed as a God before his berth on this earth , Yes or No , do you or don't you preach That Jesus is the Word of GOD who was a God, spoken of in John 1:1. Please try to be specific to the plain questions I ask you. And please don't try to separate the word GOD into, “LITTLE” Gods and big GODS. All wording originally written in scripture were in capital letters, so don't play this upper case and lower case game OK. Base question is, in your understanding was Jesus ever a TRUE GOD? plain and simple YES OR NO, will do.

Peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Gene,

Why don't you ever answer those questions I asked you?

(Have you noticed that every time you start spouting nonsense about my scripture-inspired belief that there exist “many gods and many lords”, all I have to do is ask those two questions, and you take off faster than a bolt of lightning?   )

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike…… Hear O Israel, the LORD our GOD is “ONE” LORD and again Jesus said this, ELOHIM , or GOD is a SPIRIT, are your other so-called Gods Spirits.

Mike , I tried to explain to you over and over, the term God is relative to a individual person, the term is subjective to the persons thinking, so that is why The only true God could say he is a God of Gods, that is because all other Gods created by any  PERSON are subjective to that person, as his or her God, which requires a devotion and worship to it, a personally created God , it is a real God to that person, even if it is a false God. So the real GOD can easily say, he is GOD of ALL THOSE So-called GODS. All idolaters have other GODS for themselves. No God is a real God to anyone, unless you attach TWO THING TO IT OR HIM, ONE  is Power, TWO, is devotion, and faith or trust. That applies even to the REAL God,  of all the earth and everything in it. Your belief that power alone, makes a God is not true.

The word God is always applied to someone or thing. As I have said, anything can be a GOD, but are they the “ONLY” TRUE GOD? NO Because There is ONLY “ONE” TRUE GOD. that means is, all others, are NOT “TRUE” GODS, but if not true Gods then what are they? They are “FALSE ” Gods, but Gods non the less to the BLIND person worshiping them , they are true to him,  and God is the GOD of ALL THOSE FALES GODS even if the person truly believes in them.

Do you understand what i am saying?

Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

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