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Quote (kerwin @ July 03 2013,04:55) Quote (terraricca @ July 03 2013,01:08) Quote (kerwin @ July 02 2013,22:52) Quote (terraricca @ July 02 2013,06:10) T, You do not believe in an omnipresent God but you do believe in an omnipresent kingdom of God.
Kdo you realy understand what you are saying
T,Yes.
Kerwintell me then HOW COULD THE OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD NOT BE THERE WHILE HIS KINGDOM CAN BE
[/quote]
T,If God is omnipresent then he is there while if his kingdom is omnipresent then it is there though God, himself, may not be.
KApple is omnipresent where their is and Iphone and an Ipad
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2013,10:41) Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,21:42) Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,12:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,12:08)
Let's see if we can find more ways the AKJV is NOT as God intended it to be, okay?Deuteronomy 32:17
They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.Which one of your four definitions of elohim will you apply to this verse, Ed? Both the Hebrew text and your AKJV equate “devils” with “gods”.
What will be your song and dance this time?
Hi Mike,Yes Mike, I would agree, false gods and/or Devils.
Hi Pierre,This is the post Mike is referring to.
1. False gods
and/or
2. DevilsThat DOES NOT equate to me saying…
'devils are false gods'
(that is an example of a misconception)Here is where the misconception is first presented:
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 02 2013,11:19)
Also, I read your answer that the demons were “false gods”.And here Mike's misconception turns into A FACT THAT NEVER HAPPENED!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 02 2013,07:29)
Now, are you sticking with “the demons were false gods”?
Ed,What does “false gods and/or Devils” mean then? Look at the big words in my quote above. Consider the point I was making, and consider the fact that you AGREED with that point.
In my mind, you were saying, “Yes Mike, I agree that devils are gods……….. but they're false gods.”
If that is NOT what you meant, then I surely don't know what you meant.
And if that is NOT what you meant, then I am still WAITING for your “real” response to my statement in the quote box above. Here, let me dumb it down for you………….
Ed, Moses and your precious AKJV EQUATE demons (devils) with gods.
How do you insist that Jehovah is LITERALLY the ONLY god if Moses and your precious AKJV clearly say that demons (devils) are gods?
Hi Mike,I believe that the AKJV translators used the word 'gods' in Genesis 3:5
is because the fallen angel Lucifer was trying to make a god out of himself.Now as far as the term gods in Deut.32:17, this refers to devils (used earlier in same verse)
I do not consider fallen Angels to be gods. The term 'false gods' would apply to 'BAAL' not fallen Angels.Sorry for all the confusion.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2013,10:46) Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,22:42) Hi Pierre, I cannot be held responsible for you or others
not understanding what I mean. I do try very hard
though, to keep you and others from misunderstanding.
Whatever. Why not put your money where your mouth is, then?Explain to us three things in very easy to understand language:
1. What DID you mean by “I agree, false gods and/or Devils”?
2. Do you agree with Moses and your AKJV that demons (devils) ARE gods?
3. Or will you alter the translation to “angels” – making it say that they worshiped ANGELS their fathers had not known?
Hi *Mike,1) Devils are fallen Angels – and “Angels” is one of the usages of the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”.
The term 'false god' would apply to 'BAAL' , because he is no “GOD” at all – 'FALSE GOD'
(“GOD” is another one of the usages of the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”.)2) Moshe used the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”, NOT THE ENGLISH WORD gods. So it is YOU that I disagree with, not Moses.
The AKJV translators used the English word 'gods' to help the English reader understand what YHVH was telling us.
But this has NOT helped you as you try to back translate – back translating changes the meaning of the text.
Trying to back translate is the source of most incorrect doctrine. Your belief in other gods is no exception.3) BAAL would be an example of 'a new god' or 'false god'.
(GOD: is one of the definitions of the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”)
and Devils would be an example of a fallen “Angel”
(ANGEL: is one of the definitions of the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”)
That is what: “Yes Mike, I would agree, false gods and/or Devils” means.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org*Reason for edit: I mistakenly put “Wakeup” where Mike's name belongs.
Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,19:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2013,10:46) Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,22:42) Hi Pierre, I cannot be held responsible for you or others
not understanding what I mean. I do try very hard
though, to keep you and others from misunderstanding.
Whatever. Why not put your money where your mouth is, then?Explain to us three things in very easy to understand language:
1. What DID you mean by “I agree, false gods and/or Devils”?
2. Do you agree with Moses and your AKJV that demons (devils) ARE gods?
3. Or will you alter the translation to “angels” – making it say that they worshiped ANGELS their fathers had not known?
Hi Wakeup,1) Devils are fallen Angels – and “Angels” is one of the usages of the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”.
The term 'false god' would apply to 'BAAL' , because he is no “GOD” at all – 'FALSE GOD'
(“GOD” is another one of the usages of the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”.)2) Moshe used the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”, NOT THE ENGLISH WORD gods. So it is YOU that I disagree with, not Moses.
The AKJV translators used the English word 'gods' to help the English reader understand what YHVH was telling us.
But this has NOT helped you as you try to back translate – back translating changes the meaning of the text.
Trying to back translate is the source of most incorrect doctrine. Your belief in other gods is no exception.3) BAAL would be an example of 'a new god' or 'false god'.
(GOD: is one of the definitions of the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”)
and Devils would be an example of a fallen “Angel”
(ANGEL: is one of the definitions of the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”)
That is what: “Yes Mike, I would agree, false gods and/or Devils” means.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjnot all gods are ,just not all the prophets are false prophet only those that claim more than they can give ,just like king Nebu he thought he was very MIGHTY HE HELD ALL HIS PEOPLE LIFE'S IN HIS POWER , until he understood than the God of Daniel holds his life in his hands and control it ,
regarding the God of gods ,yes Jehovah his the God of gods and Lord of lords,
no one like it ,but this does not make all other gods false ONLY IF THEY CLAIM WHAT HIS NOT THEIRS ,JUST LIKE THE PROPHETS
Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,01:24) edj not all gods are ,just not all the prophets are false prophet only those that claim more than they can give ,just like king Nebu he thought he was very MIGHTY HE HELD ALL HIS PEOPLE LIFE'S IN HIS POWER , until he understood than the God of Daniel holds his life in his hands and control it ,
regarding the God of gods ,yes Jehovah his the God of gods and Lord of lords,
no one like it ,but this does not make all other gods false ONLY IF THEY CLAIM WHAT HIS NOT THEIRS ,JUST LIKE THE PROPHETS
There are no other gods Pierre!“there is no God else beside me;” (Isaiah 45:21)
EDJ………They are bent on IDOLATRY and Create other GOD'S, So let them Go their way, and time will come when they shall see, if there are other true God's or Not. Bold are they not even fearing the wrath of God, as they go against his very own words, moving blindly forward to there end. But all who know the truth will escape them and Know there is ONLY “ONE” TRUE GOD< which means all others are "false" God's. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene
Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,20:32) Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,01:24) edj not all gods are ,just not all the prophets are false prophet only those that claim more than they can give ,just like king Nebu he thought he was very MIGHTY HE HELD ALL HIS PEOPLE LIFE'S IN HIS POWER , until he understood than the God of Daniel holds his life in his hands and control it ,
regarding the God of gods ,yes Jehovah his the God of gods and Lord of lords,
no one like it ,but this does not make all other gods false ONLY IF THEY CLAIM WHAT HIS NOT THEIRS ,JUST LIKE THE PROPHETS
There are no other gods Pierre!“there is no God else beside me;” (Isaiah 45:21)
you still can't see it ;God in ;Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
Isa 45:6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
men may know there is none besides me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other.THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I TOLD YOU ,BUT FOR YOUR PERSONAL REASONS YOU DO NOT SEE ,THAT GOD IS TALKING OF EQUALS TO HIM .AND FOR THAT REASON ;HE HIS THE GOD OF GODS AND LORD OF LORDS
YOU CAN SEE THE FIRST IS SINGULAR BUT THE SECOND IS PLURAL; IN THIS WAY IT SAYS THAT THEIR ARE MANY GODS “HE HIS THE SUPREME GOD OF ALL AND THE ONLY ONE ,IF HE SAYS GO,DO ,NO OTHER GODS CAN STOP HIM TO ACCOMPLISH HIS DESIRES ,
Face it Pierre, you cannot make yourself into a god.
“For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes
shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:5)This WAS A LIE – by the father of lies!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2013,05:54) Quote (kerwin @ July 02 2013,11:21) Mike, El is the general Canaanite name for Jehovah.
It is the general term for ANY god (mighty one). The Canaanites didn't even worship Jehovah, Kerwin. They had their own gods (elohim).
Mike,The Canaanites did worship Jehovah until the worship of Baal, an upstart, took over. They were heretics and the city had become a goddess at least for one city(Ugarit). Abram spoke of Jehovah to the king of Sodom.
I don't know, Kerwin. Read Genesis 24:1-4. At this time, even Abraham didn't know Jehovah AS “Jehovah”. (God told Moses they knew Him by “God Almighty”, but did not know Him by His name “Jehovah”.)
But the point is that Abraham was the one person out of the world that Jehovah produced HIS nation from. All people (including Abraham) had other gods up until the point Jehovah came to Abraham, and explained to him that He alone was the God who created all things, and that He would make nations for Himself out of that one man.
And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?
Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?
Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,07:31) Now as far as the term gods in Deut.32:17, this refers to devils (used earlier in same verse)
I do not consider fallen Angels to be gods.
Shall we not accept scripture until we've checked with you to see what you consider to be true or false?Sorry Ed, but it doesn't matter one bit what YOU personally think about it, because the scriptural FACT of the matter is that Moses, the man of God, called demons gods.
You need to either adjust your understanding of scripture to include this fact, or continue living in denial.
Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,07:53) The term 'false god' would apply to 'BAAL' , because he is no “GOD” at all – 'FALSE GOD'
1. Why are you even talking about Baal? He wasn't mentioned in the scripture we're discussing, was he?2. The word “baal” just means “master”, and there were many of them. For example, Baalzebul, also known as Satan, was the god of Ekron. And Satan is by no means a “false god”. For one, his powers are very real. And for another, he is called god in scripture, but never “false god”.
Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,07:53) Moshe used the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”, NOT THE ENGLISH WORD gods. So it is YOU that I disagree with, not Moses.
So then you disagree with me and your precious AKJV, right?Okay. What English word would you use for “elohim” in Deuteronomy 32:17?
Deuteronomy 32:17 ◦King James Version
They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to ____ whom they knew not………Fill in the blank, Ed.
Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,08:32) There are no other gods Pierre! “there is no God else beside me;” (Isaiah 45:21)
Exodus 12:12
“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.”Does Jehovah contradict Himself, Ed? Or is somebody misunderstanding His EMPHATIC statement in Isaiah 45:21?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35) I don't know, Kerwin. Read Genesis 24:1-4. At this time, even Abraham didn't know Jehovah AS “Jehovah”. (God told Moses they knew Him by “God Almighty”, but did not know Him by His name “Jehovah”.) But the point is that Abraham was the one person out of the world that Jehovah produced HIS nation from. All people (including Abraham) had other gods up until the point Jehovah came to Abraham, and explained to him that He alone was the God who created all things, and that He would make nations for Himself out of that one man.
And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?
Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?
Mike,Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them. The Canaanites called Jehovah El. Polytheism arose as Noah's descendents chose the heresy of worshiping angels and other things. Monotheism comes fist not polytheism.
Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.
Hi Mike,
I already know your understanding, because you have been telling us it for quite some time now.
You however, do not know my understanding even as of yet. And the reason
you don't, is you have not been interested at all.Now it seems you are only trying to find out what my understanding is – in order to poke holes in it. When you
take the time to learn what my understanding is, you will find that there are no holes for you to poke into it.
I want you to think about this for a while, because I want you listen carefully when I answer your posts.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ July 03 2013,15:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35) I don't know, Kerwin. Read Genesis 24:1-4. At this time, even Abraham didn't know Jehovah AS “Jehovah”. (God told Moses they knew Him by “God Almighty”, but did not know Him by His name “Jehovah”.) But the point is that Abraham was the one person out of the world that Jehovah produced HIS nation from. All people (including Abraham) had other gods up until the point Jehovah came to Abraham, and explained to him that He alone was the God who created all things, and that He would make nations for Himself out of that one man.
And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?
Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?
Mike,Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them. The Canaanites called Jehovah El. Polytheism arose as Noah's descendents chose the heresy of worshiping angels and other things. Monotheism comes fist not polytheism.
Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.
Genesis 9:26
He also said, “Praise be to the LORD, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem.Noah cursed Canaan for what Ham did, and said he would be the slave of slaves.
But I'm not seeing any scripture that says Canaan, or any of his descendants, worshiped Jehovah.
Could you show me that scripture?
Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,03:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35) I don't know, Kerwin. Read Genesis 24:1-4. At this time, even Abraham didn't know Jehovah AS “Jehovah”. (God told Moses they knew Him by “God Almighty”, but did not know Him by His name “Jehovah”.) But the point is that Abraham was the one person out of the world that Jehovah produced HIS nation from. All people (including Abraham) had other gods up until the point Jehovah came to Abraham, and explained to him that He alone was the God who created all things, and that He would make nations for Himself out of that one man.
And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?
Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?
Mike,Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them. The Canaanites called Jehovah El. Polytheism arose as Noah's descendents chose the heresy of worshiping angels and other things. Monotheism comes fist not polytheism.
Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.
KerwinQuote Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them so are we
and we are not Canaanites or are we where are you going with this type of answers
?Quote (Ed J @ July 04 2013,03:42) Hi Mike, I already know your understanding, because you have been telling us it for quite some time now.
You however, do not know my understanding even as of yet. And the reason
you don't, is you have not been interested at all.Now it seems you are only trying to find out what my understanding is – in order to poke holes in it. When you
take the time to learn what my understanding is, you will find that there are no holes for you to poke into it.
I want you to think about this for a while, because I want you listen carefully when I answer your posts.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjQuote do not know my understanding even as of yet. I try to know ,but you keep changing it as an constant ,so we are always late to catch up with the new version,
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