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Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 09 2013,10:23) Marty?
Hi Mike:One judge was called “a judge”.
And Jesus stated:
Quote Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Jhn 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
He did not say that he was “a god” did he?
And of course, Jesus is not a puppet who cannot speak anything other than what God has stated, but relative to the fulfillment of God's eternal law, the scripture states:
Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Quote Jhn 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jhn 14:7 ¶ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
And of course, Jesus is not just any ordinary man, but nevertheless the scripture states that “he is a man”, “the last Adam”. Do you need the scriptures to support this statement?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 09 2013,09:48) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 09 2013,10:23) Marty?
Hi Mike:One judge was called “a judge”.
And Jesus stated:
Quote Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Jhn 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
He did not say that he was “a god” did he?
And of course, Jesus is not a puppet who cannot speak anything other than what God has stated, but relative to the fulfillment of God's eternal law, the scripture states:
Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Quote Jhn 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jhn 14:7 ¶ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
And of course, Jesus is not just any ordinary man, but nevertheless the scripture states that “he is a man”, “the last Adam”. Do you need the scriptures to support this statement?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,Amen.
1Tim.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
the Man
Peace brother..
Quote (942767 @ May 09 2013,11:48) One judge was called “a judge”.
I see. So 20 of them would be called “judges”, while only one of them would be called “A judge”. Is that correct?So if, instead of calling those 20 people “judges”, I called them “gods”, what would only one of them be called? (Use your previous answer to help you out.)
As for the rest of your post, I was asking if Jesus ever gave the Jews reason to believe he was “making himself out to be God Almighty“. Did he?
In other words, Marty, do you think any of the Jews who lived on earth with Jesus ever thought he was, or even claimed to be “God Almighty Himself”? YES or NO?
Quote (abe @ May 09 2013,13:23) 1Tim.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, the Man
Why do people always neglect to post the latter part of that statement?For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people.
Of course Jesus WAS a man WHEN he gave himself as a ransom. But is he STILL a human being in heaven?
John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’Hmmmm………. so “flesh” cannot enter the kingdom of God? But aren't all “men” made of flesh? If only there was some teaching about this in scripture, so we could know what is true. Oh wait, there IS!
35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
Will Paul say, “A FLESH body!”? Let's see……….
40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies…………
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead.
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
So Jesus HAD an “earthly body”, but doesn't anymore?
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
The last Adam became a SPIRIT? Interesting. As a spirit, I'll bet he IS allowed to enter the kingdom of God.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
Phew! At least we know Jesus is not the ONLY one in heaven with a spiritual body. “Those of heaven” also share this type of body. I wonder if THEY are “men”?
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly.
What? WE too have the hope of bearing a new spiritual body instead of the flesh one we currently have? I wonder why we can't just stay flesh?
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…….
Oh, that's right. Now I remember what Jesus said about flesh not being able to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Yeah, I don't think it's very reasonable to think of Jesus as still a flesh and blood human being living in the heavenly realms.
He existed in the form of God (spirit) before he LOWERED HIMSELF to be made flesh in the first place. Why would anyone suppose that AFTER Jesus accomplished everything God sent him to do with flying colors, that he would have to remain flesh?
God made MAN a little lower than the angels. If Jesus is still “man”, then Jesus is still a little lower than the angels. But is that the case? What does Heb 1 say about it?
Mike……….So tell us what “IS” a SPIRIT “BODY” seening we already have Sprit “IN” us. You have not told us what is your rendition of a SPIRIT “BODY” is, what does it look like , So inyou belief we will all just go around like spirits do trying to find some kind of actual body to jump in and our of right?. Paul all so said , For we hope for the resurection that will witness the redemption of our “BODIES”. So why have a resurection of any kind of Body seening we will be Spirts. We all ready know our Sprits go back to God when we die, So why is there a need for any kind of “BODY” Resurection at all ?
And what about the valley of dryed bones that EZEKIEL wrote of , that shows a PHYSICAL BODY RESURECTION, Taking Place. Did you throw that part of you bible out. How do you account for that Mike?
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………….gene
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 10 2013,09:55) You have not told us what is your rendition of a SPIRIT “BODY” is, what does it look like
Gene,When you someday find out what the body of a angel looks like, you'll know what a spiritual body looks like.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 11 2013,10:13) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 10 2013,09:55) You have not told us what is your rendition of a SPIRIT “BODY” is, what does it look like
Gene,When you someday find out what the body of a angel looks like, you'll know what a spiritual body looks like.
Mike…….I already know spirits are not “bodies” but they can exist “in” bodies, like we human have and angels have bodies to , what type the angels have , that is anyone guess, but angels do have some kind of body with spirits “in” them.A spirit is one thing, and a Body is quite another. Bodies are considered as temples or housing for spirits and all spirits desire them. A spirit without a body is naked and goes about in dry or arid places, looking for a body to rest in. Our spirits must be clothed with a body, they themselves are not bodies of any kind, they are spirits and have no bodies, unless they are give one or find one somehow. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………….. Gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 11 2013,21:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 11 2013,10:13) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 10 2013,09:55) You have not told us what is your rendition of a SPIRIT “BODY” is, what does it look like
Gene,When you someday find out what the body of a angel looks like, you'll know what a spiritual body looks like.
Mike…….I already know spirits are not “bodies” but they can exist “in” bodies, like we human have and angels have bodies to , what type the angels have , that is anyone guess, but angels do have some kind of body with spirits “in” them.A spirit is one thing, and a Body is quite another. Bodies are considered as temples or housing for spirits and all spirits desire them. A spirit without a body is naked and goes about in dry or arid places, looking for a body to rest in. Our spirits must be clothed with a body, they themselves are not bodies of any kind, they are spirits and have no bodies, unless they are give one or find one somehow. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………….. Gene
GeneAnything that God created has an some kind of body ,either of flesh,or spirit,or magnetic ,or atomic,or other unknown material,
But understand if it did not exist and God made it ,it as an body just like the earth and the sun, and the stars seen and unseen,now because we cannot see viruses does not mean they do not have a bodyGot it
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 10 2013,11:37) Quote (942767 @ May 09 2013,11:48) One judge was called “a judge”.
I see. So 20 of them would be called “judges”, while only one of them would be called “A judge”. Is that correct?So if, instead of calling those 20 people “judges”, I called them “gods”, what would only one of them be called? (Use your previous answer to help you out.)
As for the rest of your post, I was asking if Jesus ever gave the Jews reason to believe he was “making himself out to be God Almighty“. Did he?
In other words, Marty, do you think any of the Jews who lived on earth with Jesus ever thought he was, or even claimed to be “God Almighty Himself”? YES or NO?
Hi Mike:The scripture states that “He(God) called them gods to “whom the Word of God came”. It does not say that they were called gods. They were judges.
And also, God called the Son, god, or God in Hebrew 1, but he does not refer to himself as God, He said that “he is the Son of God, and God also tells us in Matthew 16 that “he is the Christ, the Son of the Living God”.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Mike:
As to whether or not the Jews thought the Jesus was claiming to be “God Almighty”
We have the following scriptures:
Quote Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Quote Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Quote Luk 5:19 And when they could not find by what [way] they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with [his] couch into the midst before Jesus. Luk 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Luk 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
And so, no, based on these scriptures, they did not think that he was claiming to be “God Almighty”, but that “he was claiming equal authority to God”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (terraricca @ May 12 2013,09:10) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 11 2013,21:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 11 2013,10:13) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 10 2013,09:55) You have not told us what is your rendition of a SPIRIT “BODY” is, what does it look like
Gene,When you someday find out what the body of a angel looks like, you'll know what a spiritual body looks like.
Mike…….I already know spirits are not “bodies” but they can exist “in” bodies, like we human have and angels have bodies to , what type the angels have , that is anyone guess, but angels do have some kind of body with spirits “in” them.A spirit is one thing, and a Body is quite another. Bodies are considered as temples or housing for spirits and all spirits desire them. A spirit without a body is naked and goes about in dry or arid places, looking for a body to rest in. Our spirits must be clothed with a body, they themselves are not bodies of any kind, they are spirits and have no bodies, unless they are give one or find one somehow. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………….. Gene
GeneAnything that God created has an some kind of body ,either of flesh,or spirit,or magnetic ,or atomic,or other unknown material,
But understand if it did not exist and God made it ,it as an body just like the earth and the sun, and the stars seen and unseen,now because we cannot see viruses does not mean they do not have a bodyGot it
Terricca………..Produce scripture that says, Spirit have bodies, and if they do then why create bodies at all for them, if spirit are bodies, so then in your and Mikes views, we are a bodies within bodies right? Pierre spirit are not Bodies they are what is “IN” bodies. You need to stop following Mike down his rabbit holes brother. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
Quote (942767 @ May 11 2013,16:33) Hi Mike: The scripture states that “He(God) called them gods to “whom the Word of God came”. It does not say that they were called gods. They were judges.
So Jehovah Himself called them gods, but they were NOT called gods? Marty, that doesn't even make sense.What makes you think that Psalm is about human judges? I believe it is God talking to the spirit beings (like the “Prince of Persia”, the “god of Ekron”, and “the gods of Egypt”) that he set as overseers of human nations. I believe God is telling them that, instead of guiding these nations of humans in a Godly way, they instead had been corrupting those nations. That is why He said, in effect, Even though I have called you gods, you too will end up dying like men – because of the messed up way you've dealt with these humans I placed you over.
But either way, the point remains that if a group of them were called gods, then one of them would be “a god”. That's just common sense, Marty……….. and you seem to understand that point just fine when using the word “judges”. I don't know why you can't understand the same exact point when using the word “gods”.
Quote (942767 @ May 11 2013,16:33) And also, God called the Son, god, or God in Hebrew 1……….
That's all I was asking. So Jehovah Himself called Jesus a god……… end of story. (I don't think, nor have I ever claimed, that Jesus was God Almighty, Marty. I am fully aware that Jesus is the Son OF the Most High God. But as the literal Son OF the Most High Mighty One (god), Jesus would naturally be A mighty one (god).This also seems to be common sense to me.
To be continued………………
Quote (942767 @ May 11 2013,16:55) Hi Mike: As to whether or not the Jews thought the Jesus was claiming to be “God Almighty”
We have the following scriptures:
Quote Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Quote Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. And so, no, based on these scriptures, they did not think that he was claiming to be “God Almighty”, but that “he was claiming equal authority to God”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay, so look closely at those verses you quoted. Jesus repeatedly claimed to be the SON OF God Almighty, right?And it was this claim that he was God's literal SON that caused these Jews to think he was “making himself equal with God”. So what does that mean?
Imagine a Canaanite going around claiming that he was a Jew. The Pharisees could tell him, We are going to stone you because you, a mere Canaanite, are making yourself equal with Abraham.
See? They wouldn't be saying that this Canaanite was claiming to LITERALLY be Abraham himself. Instead, they would be saying that he was “putting himself on a level playing field with Abraham himself”.
Get it? The words “making yourself equal with Abraham” mean “putting yourself up high LIKE our father Abraham”.
So the claim was never that any of the Jews thought Jesus was LITERALLY equal to the Most High God who created the heavens and the earth. Instead, they were appalled that he would claim God as his LITERAL father, placing himself in an extremely high position.
Likewise, since the Jews never thought Jesus was making himself out to be God Almighty Himself, John 10:33 is better translated as, “you, a mere man, are making yourself out to be A god”. They didn't think Jesus was making himself out to be God Almighty Himself, but the LITERAL son OF God Almighty. The Son OF God Almighty would not BE “God”, but “a god”.
So your summary statement at the bottom of the quote box above is very close to the truth of the matter, Marty. The Jews NEVER thought Jesus was claiming to be God Almighty Himself. Instead, they knew he was claiming to have God as his LITERAL Father, thereby placing himself with a vast amount of prestige and authority. Not EXACTLY EQUAL with the authority God Himself has – but pretty darn close.
The bottom line is the Jehovah calls Jesus “god” in Heb 1:8. So if Jehovah is not calling him “THE god” (“God” -with a capped “G”), then He MUST BE calling him “A god”.
Therefore, you can see that Jesus IS called a god in scripture. (Not just once, but about 6 times.) And that is all I wanted you to realize. I want you to accept that Jesus IS a god who is NOT the Most High God. It is what the scriptures teach, and it's time some of you accept that teaching.
peace,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ May 12 2013,20:52) Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2013,09:10) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 11 2013,21:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 11 2013,10:13) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 10 2013,09:55) You have not told us what is your rendition of a SPIRIT “BODY” is, what does it look like
Gene,When you someday find out what the body of a angel looks like, you'll know what a spiritual body looks like.
Mike…….I already know spirits are not “bodies” but they can exist “in” bodies, like we human have and angels have bodies to , what type the angels have , that is anyone guess, but angels do have some kind of body with spirits “in” them.A spirit is one thing, and a Body is quite another. Bodies are considered as temples or housing for spirits and all spirits desire them. A spirit without a body is naked and goes about in dry or arid places, looking for a body to rest in. Our spirits must be clothed with a body, they themselves are not bodies of any kind, they are spirits and have no bodies, unless they are give one or find one somehow. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………….. Gene
GeneAnything that God created has an some kind of body ,either of flesh,or spirit,or magnetic ,or atomic,or other unknown material,
But understand if it did not exist and God made it ,it as an body just like the earth and the sun, and the stars seen and unseen,now because we cannot see viruses does not mean they do not have a bodyGot it
Terricca………..Produce scripture that says, Spirit have bodies, and if they do then why create bodies at all for them, if spirit are bodies, so then in your and Mikes views, we are a bodies within bodies right? Pierre spirit are not Bodies they are what is “IN” bodies. You need to stop following Mike down his rabbit holes brother. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
GeneI can not compensate for your lack of scripture understanding ,you sound like those Pharisees that ask for a miracle to believe in Christ ,but none was given to them ,
I have explained it as simple as I can in a logical understanding way ,
if you do not understand this what can I add
WELL WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE GOD CREATED ANYTHING
NOTHING BUT GOD HIMSELF RIGHT YES,SO WEN HE START TO CREATED THINGS EACH OF THOSE THINGS BECAME TO LIVE OR HAD A PURPOSE FOR TO BE CREATED AND SO ACTING IN THE WAY OF IT'S CREATION ,BUT IT ALSO OCCUPIDE A SPACE AND AN POWER OF IS OWN AND THIS IS WHAT MAKES IT INTO A BODY OF A SORT ,
IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS MAY BE IT IS NOT THE TIME FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THIS ,?
????Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2013,04:30) Quote (942767 @ May 11 2013,16:55) Hi Mike: As to whether or not the Jews thought the Jesus was claiming to be “God Almighty”
We have the following scriptures:
Quote Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Quote Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. And so, no, based on these scriptures, they did not think that he was claiming to be “God Almighty”, but that “he was claiming equal authority to God”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay, so look closely at those verses you quoted. Jesus repeatedly claimed to be the SON OF God Almighty, right?And it was this claim that he was God's literal SON that caused these Jews to think he was “making himself equal with God”. So what does that mean?
Imagine a Canaanite going around claiming that he was a Jew. The Pharisees could tell him, We are going to stone you because you, a mere Canaanite, are making yourself equal with Abraham.
See? They wouldn't be saying that this Canaanite was claiming to LITERALLY be Abraham himself. Instead, they would be saying that he was “putting himself on a level playing field with Abraham himself”.
Get it? The words “making yourself equal with Abraham” mean “putting yourself up high LIKE our father Abraham”.
So the claim was never that any of the Jews thought Jesus was LITERALLY equal to the Most High God who created the heavens and the earth. Instead, they were appalled that he would claim God as his LITERAL father, placing himself in an extremely high position.
Likewise, since the Jews never thought Jesus was making himself out to be God Almighty Himself, John 10:33 is better translated as, “you, a mere man, are making yourself out to be A god”. They didn't think Jesus was making himself out to be God Almighty Himself, but the LITERAL son OF God Almighty. The Son OF God Almighty would not BE “God”, but “a god”.
So your summary statement at the bottom of the quote box above is very close to the truth of the matter, Marty. The Jews NEVER thought Jesus was claiming to be God Almighty Himself. Instead, they knew he was claiming to have God as his LITERAL Father, thereby placing himself with a vast amount of prestige and authority. Not EXACTLY EQUAL with the authority God Himself has – but pretty darn close.
The bottom line is the Jehovah calls Jesus “god” in Heb 1:8. So if Jehovah is not calling him “THE god” (“God” -with a capped “G”), then He MUST BE calling him “A god”.
Therefore, you can see that Jesus IS called a god in scripture. (Not just once, but about 6 times.) And that is all I wanted you to realize. I want you to accept that Jesus IS a god who is NOT the Most High God. It is what the scriptures teach, and it's time some of you accept that teaching.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike:This is the teaching that I accept:
Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Quote 1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
Quote Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Love in Christ,
MartyHi Again Mike:
God did not call Jesus “a god”. He called him “God” or god as his representative to the people. Philippians 2 puts it this way:
Quote Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 13 2013,02:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2013,04:30) Quote (942767 @ May 11 2013,16:55) Hi Mike: As to whether or not the Jews thought the Jesus was claiming to be “God Almighty”
We have the following scriptures:
Quote Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Quote Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. And so, no, based on these scriptures, they did not think that he was claiming to be “God Almighty”, but that “he was claiming equal authority to God”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay, so look closely at those verses you quoted. Jesus repeatedly claimed to be the SON OF God Almighty, right?And it was this claim that he was God's literal SON that caused these Jews to think he was “making himself equal with God”. So what does that mean?
Imagine a Canaanite going around claiming that he was a Jew. The Pharisees could tell him, We are going to stone you because you, a mere Canaanite, are making yourself equal with Abraham.
See? They wouldn't be saying that this Canaanite was claiming to LITERALLY be Abraham himself. Instead, they would be saying that he was “putting himself on a level playing field with Abraham himself”.
Get it? The words “making yourself equal with Abraham” mean “putting yourself up high LIKE our father Abraham”.
So the claim was never that any of the Jews thought Jesus was LITERALLY equal to the Most High God who created the heavens and the earth. Instead, they were appalled that he would claim God as his LITERAL father, placing himself in an extremely high position.
Likewise, since the Jews never thought Jesus was making himself out to be God Almighty Himself, John 10:33 is better translated as, “you, a mere man, are making yourself out to be A god”. They didn't think Jesus was making himself out to be God Almighty Himself, but the LITERAL son OF God Almighty. The Son OF God Almighty would not BE “God”, but “a god”.
So your summary statement at the bottom of the quote box above is very close to the truth of the matter, Marty. The Jews NEVER thought Jesus was claiming to be God Almighty Himself. Instead, they knew he was claiming to have God as his LITERAL Father, thereby placing himself with a vast amount of prestige and authority. Not EXACTLY EQUAL with the authority God Himself has – but pretty darn close.
The bottom line is the Jehovah calls Jesus “god” in Heb 1:8. So if Jehovah is not calling him “THE god” (“God” -with a capped “G”), then He MUST BE calling him “A god”.
Therefore, you can see that Jesus IS called a god in scripture. (Not just once, but about 6 times.) And that is all I wanted you to realize. I want you to accept that Jesus IS a god who is NOT the Most High God. It is what the scriptures teach, and it's time some of you accept that teaching.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike:This is the teaching that I accept:
Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Quote 1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
Quote Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Love in Christ,
Marty
MARTYHeb 1:8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.IS THIS NOT TRUE
Quote (terraricca @ May 13 2013,09:42) Quote (942767 @ May 13 2013,02:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2013,04:30) Quote (942767 @ May 11 2013,16:55) Hi Mike: As to whether or not the Jews thought the Jesus was claiming to be “God Almighty”
We have the following scriptures:
Quote Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Quote Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. And so, no, based on these scriptures, they did not think that he was claiming to be “God Almighty”, but that “he was claiming equal authority to God”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay, so look closely at those verses you quoted. Jesus repeatedly claimed to be the SON OF God Almighty, right?And it was this claim that he was God's literal SON that caused these Jews to think he was “making himself equal with God”. So what does that mean?
Imagine a Canaanite going around claiming that he was a Jew. The Pharisees could tell him, We are going to stone you because you, a mere Canaanite, are making yourself equal with Abraham.
See? They wouldn't be saying that this Canaanite was claiming to LITERALLY be Abraham himself. Instead, they would be saying that he was “putting himself on a level playing field with Abraham himself”.
Get it? The words “making yourself equal with Abraham” mean “putting yourself up high LIKE our father Abraham”.
So the claim was never that any of the Jews thought Jesus was LITERALLY equal to the Most High God who created the heavens and the earth. Instead, they were appalled that he would claim God as his LITERAL father, placing himself in an extremely high position.
Likewise, since the Jews never thought Jesus was making himself out to be God Almighty Himself, John 10:33 is better translated as, “you, a mere man, are making yourself out to be A god”. They didn't think Jesus was making himself out to be God Almighty Himself, but the LITERAL son OF God Almighty. The Son OF God Almighty would not BE “God”, but “a god”.
So your summary statement at the bottom of the quote box above is very close to the truth of the matter, Marty. The Jews NEVER thought Jesus was claiming to be God Almighty Himself. Instead, they knew he was claiming to have God as his LITERAL Father, thereby placing himself with a vast amount of prestige and authority. Not EXACTLY EQUAL with the authority God Himself has – but pretty darn close.
The bottom line is the Jehovah calls Jesus “god” in Heb 1:8. So if Jehovah is not calling him “THE god” (“God” -with a capped “G”), then He MUST BE calling him “A god”.
Therefore, you can see that Jesus IS called a god in scripture. (Not just once, but about 6 times.) And that is all I wanted you to realize. I want you to accept that Jesus IS a god who is NOT the Most High God. It is what the scriptures teach, and it's time some of you accept that teaching.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike:This is the teaching that I accept:
Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Quote 1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
Quote Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Love in Christ,
Marty
MARTYHeb 1:8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.IS THIS NOT TRUE
Hi Pierre:That is what the Word of God states:
Quote Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. And so, He did not call him “a God” did he? He came in the “name of the Father” or that is in the authority of the Father, and he has been given all power over heaven and earth, and no man can come to the Father but through him, but nevertheless, he has come to reconcile us to the Father, and there is no God, but one. He said:
Quote Jhn 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 12 2013,17:27) And so, He did not call him “a God” did he? He came in the “name of the Father” or that is in the authority of the Father, and he has been given all power over heaven and earth, and no man can come to the Father but through him, but nevertheless, he has come to reconcile us to the Father, and there is no God, but one.
But you admit that the Father spoke about the throne of the Son, saying, Your throne, O god, is forever, right?And God goes on to say, this is because YOUR God has set you high above your companions, right?
So in my understanding, TWO gods are mentioned in that passage – one of whom set the other up on high.
Explain to me how one God set this other God up on high……….. when only ONE god is being discussed. Because I surely don't understand that, Marty.
Your argument seems to go like this:
Marty, is Jesus ever called a lion in scripture?
No Mike, Jesus is called THE LION OF JUDAH, but that doesn't mean he was called “a lion”.
I seriously don't understand. If he is called “the lion of Judah”, then he is called a lion in scripture, right?
Hi Mike:
God was speaking to His Son in Hebrews 1 when he said:
Quote Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hbr 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Did the fact that Jesus is the Son and God is his God change or did God exalt him to rule at his right hand as the head of the church as His representative?
And did his name change from Jesus to something else or is he still Jesus. He has been exalted:
Quote Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. And so, now, Mike does the fact that he has been exalted to his position as Lord and Christ make him God or is he still the Son of God?
If God called Jesus the “Lion of the tribe of Judah”, is he therefore, “a lion”? or is there some other reason that he calls him that? In Isaiah 9:
Quote sa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. “his name shall be called”? Is he “the Mighty God”? Or is his name still called Jesus?
He was and is “in the form of God” as God's representative, but that does not change the fact that there is still “One God”. He is ruling by God's Word. The Word of God did not originate with him.
Maybe this will help you to understand:
To Moses God states:
Quote Exd 4:15 And thou shalt speak unto him(Aaron), and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. Exd 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, [even] he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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