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[mikeboll64]

So you think it was written ORIGINALLY about the great Messiah of God?

Hmmm……………. Could be, I suppose.

It seems to me that most of those Messianic prophecies were first written about a king or ruler in their day, but had a SECOND, prophetic meaning about Christ.

But you could be right. I suppose this Psalm could have been about Christ right from the start.

Does anyone else have any thoughts about this?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2013,00:36)

So you think it was written ORIGINALLY about the great Messiah of God?   Hmmm…………….  Could be, I suppose. It seems to me that most of those Messianic prophecies were first written about a king or ruler in their day, but had a SECOND, prophetic meaning about Christ. But you could be right.  I suppose this Psalm could have been about Christ right from the start. Does anyone else have any thoughts about this?

mike

show me ONE SINGLE KING DEAD OR ALIVE THAT CAN ADDRESS THESE WORDS TO HIM 'IF NOT CHRIST

Ps 45:2 You are the most excellent of men
and your lips have been anointed with grace,
since God has blessed you forever.

JOH;who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Ps 45:3 Gird your sword upon your side, O mighty one;
clothe yourself with splendor and majesty.

Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.

Ps 45:4 In your majesty ride forth victoriously
in behalf of truth, humility and righteousness;
let your right hand display awesome deeds.

Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb(RIGHT HAND) of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Ps 45:5 Let your sharp arrows pierce the hearts of the king’s enemies;
let the nations fall beneath your feet.

Ps 45:6 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Ps 45:7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness;

[mikeboll64]

Well, David, for one.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2013,12:28)

Quote (terraricca @ April 23 2013,20:24) Marty Quote But the scripture in Psalm, it appears that God is referring to the King, possibly Solomon; no way by any means Pierre, I've never even guessed which king Ps 45 was talking about.  But why do you say it CAN'T be Solomon?

Hi Mike and Pierre:

Whatever King God is addressing, God is addressing the King. I said possibly Solomon, because of verse 45:9:

Quote

Psa 45:9 Kings' daughters [were] among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

Outline of Biblical Usage Ophir = “reducing to ashes”

1) eleventh son of Joktan

2) a land or city in southern Arabia in Solomon's trade route where gold evidently was traded for goods

3) characteristic of fine gold

4) fine gold

And Hebrews 1 God is addressing the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords:

Quote

Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

The point is that called addressed the king “thy throne O God…”, not because the King is God, but because the Son is the partaker of His divine nature. Jesus is “the express image of His person”, yet he is not God. The Word of God did not originate with him.

John 10 when Jesus was being accused of claiming equality with God, and commiting blasphemy, :

Quote

Jhn 10:31 ¶ Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Jhn 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Quote

Pro 8:15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. Pro 8:16 By me princes rule, and nobles, [even] all the judges of the earth.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Marty

Ps 45:9 Daughters of kings are among your honored women;
at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.

this is not Solomon but Christ bride and their daughters ,the ones that are purified like gold is ;allegorical refers to the disciples and the believers in their message,

prophecies are not written for common men or authorities to fulfill,prophecies are God written word to tell things that are not , and will be accomplish to save men ,through God's own way and time , so to make it know to whom, look for it

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ April 28 2013,21:04)

The point is that called addressed the king “thy throne O God…”, not because the King is God, but because the Son is the partaker of His divine nature.  Jesus is “the express image of His person”, yet he is not God.

Marty, do you believe this king is a god other than God Almighty?

Quote (942767 @ April 28 2013,21:04)

John 10 when Jesus was being accused of claiming equality with God, and committing blasphemy,

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be a god.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?

The above is how I understand that passage, Marty.  The Jews weren't accusing Jesus of having claimed to be God Almighty Himself – for he never even came close to doing that.  But the literal Son of God, in their eyes, would naturally be “a god”, right?  Just like other spirit sons of God are called “gods” in scripture, right?  So by claiming to be the literal Son of the Living God, Jesus was, by default, claiming to be “a god” – at least in their eyes.

So how did he answer them?  If He called THEM gods, then why not the one God sanctified as His very own?

In other words, If He called these LESSER ONES gods, then why would you freak out about God's literal Son being a god?  

Remember, Marty, that there was no indefinite article in the Greek.  So the words of verse 33 could be, “you make yourself out to be God”, or “you make yourself out to be a god”.

Which of the Jews ever thought Jesus was claiming to be God Almighty Himself?  Since none of them ever thought that, there would be no reason for them to claim that he was making himself out to be God Almighty Himself.  “A god” is a better fit with the context here.

I have more to say about Heb 1:8, but will wait for your answer to my first question above.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2013,08:16)

Well, David, for one.

Mike

Not even close their is a king that serve God more and better than David even than Solomon. Only the king chosen by God can be the one Jesus Christ

[mikeboll64]

Like I said, Pierre, you MAY BE right that this particular psalm was written directly and originally about Jesus.

But you asked me who else would fit the words, and my answer was David.  King David would fit every word in that psalm.

Also, many of those prophetic psalms were first written about a human king, and they were only later applied to Jesus.

So while you MAY BE right that this one was originally written about Christ, you can't INSIST that it was.  Nor can you laugh or denigrate others who think it might also have a reference to a human king of that time period – because the simple truth is that neither one of us knows FOR SURE.

There is not enough information in the words to INSIST it was written ONLY about Jesus, nor is there enough information to INSIST it was originally about a different king.

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

Tell,me Mike how could a king that stole the wife of another man ,send this man to dead for the possession of the women ,and also disobey God another time ,,,and then claim that RIGHTEOUNESS IS HIS SEPTER ?

[mikeboll64]

I don't know, Pierre. Tell me how our great Lord and King Jesus Christ will rule from the throne of God's faithful servant DAVID?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2013,07:32)

I don't know, Pierre.  Tell me how our great Lord and King Jesus Christ will rule from the throne of God's faithful servant DAVID?

Mike David was the allegorical king ;Christ is the real king ,

Christ kingdom is for eternity David the king his dead ,and his kingdom as gone ashtray,but what was true about King David is that he loved his God with all his heart and soul ,but so did Jesus Christ the real KING that God made to sit in the real Kingdom of Israel and Jerusalem the city of God,

[942767]

Hi Mike:

No, this is not saying that Jesus is “a god”. The judges were called “gods” to whom “the word of God came”. They exercised judgment by God's word.

And no, Jesus was not claiming to be “God Almighty”, and he was not claiming to be “a god”. Nor did the Jews think that he was claiming to be “a god”. He came as God's representative, and gave this answer to “the accusation from the Jews that he was claiming to be equal with God” by saying:

Quote

Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Again, Jesus is “the express image of God's person”, and therefore stated in John 14 “he who has seen me has seen the Father, that is through his life of obedience to God's Word. The Word of God did not originate with him. It came to humanity from God through him.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[GeneBalthrop]

Marty………..You have posted it right brother. Jesus is in Complete obedience to God the Father and calls us to come along beside him in obedience also to the Father , He gave us the Father words not “HIS” Words. If we obey Jesus we are obeying the Father. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2013,05:16)

He gave us the Father words not “HIS” Words.

So when Jesus asked God to let the cup pass from him, it was really the Father asking HIMSELF?  

Oh, that's right………. YOU get to decide for us when Jesus spoke HIS OWN words, and when it was the Father talking through him from a microphone in heaven.  

Gene, Jesus spoke from his own perspective.  Yes, the words (TEACHINGS) he gave us he learned from his Father.  But Jesus put those teachings into HIS OWN words.

Jesus himself told the Pharisees that they have NEVER heard the Father's voice.  Yet Jesus gave them many teachings, didn't he?  How could this have LITERALLY been the being of God Almighty, within Jesus, speaking through Jesus, if they had never heard His voice?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 05 2013,16:52)

No, this is not saying that Jesus is “a god”.  The judges were called “gods” to whom “the word of God came”.

Okay, so the judges (plural) were called gods (plural).  What was only ONE judge called, Marty?

Quote (942767 @ May 05 2013,16:52)

And no, Jesus….was not claiming to be “a god”. Nor did the Jews think that he was claiming to be “a god”.

Did the Jews believe Jesus was making himself out to be:
A.  God Almighty Himself?
B.  A god?

Which one, Marty?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2013,01:16)

Marty………..You have posted it right brother. Jesus is in Complete obedience to God the Father and calls us to come along beside him in obedience also to the Father , He gave us the Father words not “HIS” Words. If we obey Jesus we are obeying the Father. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………gene

Further, we can be seated with Christ on his throne and Christ is seated with the Father on his throne.

That is an example of Jesus being different to us. He is not just a ordinary man like us but is the firstborn of all creation. He has first place in all things and that makes him special and different to us. So we hold him in the highest esteem whereas I would not hold you with that same esteem.

Trying to degrade Jesus down to a 2000 year old man only is not the full truth about who and what Jesus is.

Rather the Word became flesh. He was made a little lower than the angels for a time.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2013,15:23)

So when Jesus asked God to let the cup pass from him, it was really the Father asking HIMSELF?

Or maybe that Jesus had no free will according to Gene, therefore, it was God saying “take this cup from me, but not my will but yours”, just so Jesus would realise how powerful God is.

I doubt Gene has even thought his teachings through to its logical conclusion.

[mikeboll64]

I know he hasn't. It is evident in the words he posts. And I keep trying to show him these things, and that sometimes his own words even contradict themselves – but he is more stubborn than a mule.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2013,08:00)

I know he hasn't.  It is evident in the words he posts.  And I keep trying to show him these things, and that sometimes his own words even contradict themselves – but he is more stubborn than a mule.

[mikeboll64]

Marty?

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