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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,10:32) Hebrews 7 NIV
26 Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.Ed, do you understand that this passage is referring to Jesus being appointed as High Priest? The KJV and Webster's are the only two translations that use the word “makes”. But they aren't using that word the way you are understanding it. For example, we could say that God “appointed” Jesus as the Lord of lords. But we could also say that God “MADE” Jesus the Lord of lords. In this sense, the word “MADE” isn't referring to when God originally brought Jesus into existence. It is talking about God “appointing” him to a position, ie: “making” him King.
The word of the oath is what “appointed”, or “made” Jesus High Priest. It is not talking about a word that brought Jesus into existence. Don't forget that the word of oath mentioned came AFTER THE LAW. Surely you don't think the Holy Spirit didn't exist until AFTER THE LAW, do you?
Comments?
mike
Hi Mike,Do you assert that Jesus could have been made our high priest without being born?
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled,
separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth
not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins,
and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity;
but The Word of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Heb.7:26-28)Quote Surely you don't think the Holy Spirit didn't exist until AFTER THE LAW, do you? Jesus wasn't born until after the law, so he couldn't have been made the high priest before.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,10:48) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:18) Hi Mike, The kings make war with the Lamb in Rev.17:14,
then Jesus' Father(The Word) brings the Cavalry
to fight back Rev.19:11-21; it's pretty simple really.
Ed,Which letters the KJV capitalized and which ones they didn't are of no import, so I won't bother with that trivial point. But consider this:
Revelation 19 NIV
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”peace,
mike
Hi Mike,Consider this…
“The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!
And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !
Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood.
Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garmentsRevelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress
Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress aloneRev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God.
Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit withinBut they rebelled, and vexed
his HolySpirit: therefore he
was turned to be their enemy,
and he fought against them.Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger
…and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,
that with it He should smite the nations.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,10:08)
Do you now agree that God is not the only being in existence who has glory? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,The point “I” was making is: that Jesus came in his fathers glory. …do you agree with this?
God bless
Ed J
Ed, I really NEED you to DIRECTLY answer the question I asked.As far as your point, scripture does not say that Jesus came in his Father's glory that I'm aware of. What 1:14 does say is that the Word BECAME flesh, and that HIS glory was the glory, not of God Himself, but of the only begotten OF God.
So MY point is that the Word had a glory all his own. It was THAT glory John and the disciples beheld. And THAT glory was as of the only begotten from the Father…………..not as of the Father Himself.
Agreed?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,10:55) Ed, I really NEED you to DIRECTLY answer the question I asked.
Hi Mike,You answer mine and I'll answer yours; deal?
The point “I” was making is: that Jesus came in his fathers glory. …do you agree with this?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:28) 2) Can you point to any that do not?
More than you could count. Would you like me to do so?Here's just one:
1 Corinthians 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power,Both of the above bolded words are the Greek word “logos”. Which one of those refers to the Holy Spirit?
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,10:08)
I want CLEAR acknowledgement from you that the genitive form of “theos” means “OF God”………..and NOTHING else.
Hi Mike,It can also be translated as God's (the possessive form of God); have you forgotten?
God bless
Ed J
Yes Ed. But “God's Spirit” and “Spirit OF God” mean EXACTLY the same thing.What I'm waiting for is your CLEAR acknowledgment that it can't mean “the God Spirit”.
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:50)
Do you assert that Jesus could have been made our high priest without being born?
No Ed, I don't. But that has nothing to do with my SCRIPTURAL point. My point is that Hebrews 7:28 is NOT speaking of Jesus' beginning, but of his appointment to High Priest……………WAY AFTER HE WAS BORN!Do you understand that the scripture is speaking about Jesus being made High Priest, and not about Jesus being made, period? YES or NO?
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:50)
Jesus wasn't born until after the law, so he couldn't have been made the high priest before.
No one said he was made High Priest before the Law. Please address the bolded point CLEARLY and DIRECTLY.mike
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:54) Hi Mike, Consider this…
Sure Ed. Immediately AFTER you DIRECTLY address my point. Is Psalm 2:7 about Jesus, Ed? Is the same exact phrase said about the Word of God in Rev 19, Ed?What you are trying to do is DIVERT FROM my point. I will be happy to discuss your Isaiah scriptures. But not unless you are going to start actually ADDRESSING my points.
You didn't even post both scriptures in your response. Why? Is the direct link between them too overwhelming for your theory?
The problem is that you are avoiding the obvious and posting many other scriptures along with YOUR claim that they say what you think they do. But just like with Hebrews 7:28, they don't really say what you thought they did. And I will go through each and every one of them and show you this………..but only if you keep DIRECTLY ADDRESSING MY POINTS too.
Now…………what do you think about the scriptural FACT that the same words said about Jesus in Psalm 2 are said about the Word of God in Rev 19? Coincidence? What about when you add in the scriptural FACT that the beast and the kings of the earth wage war against the Lamb, and they also wage war against the Word of God? Are there TWO wars? Where do I read about that? Did the beast and his armies start to overwhelm the Lamb, and so the Word of God had to be sent to his aid? Where do I read about that?
What we seem to have is a lot of “coincidences” piling up against you.
mike
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:59) Hi Mike, You answer mine and I'll answer yours; deal?
The point “I” was making is: that Jesus came in his fathers glory. …do you agree with this?
I don't agree with it unless scripture says it, Ed. Does John 1 mention that Jesus came with “the Father's glory”? If not, then to assume so would be reckless. Also, “coming in” the Father's glory would not mean Jesus “had” the Father's glory. Jehovah shares His own glory with no one.Now, please answer my question.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,10:55) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,10:08)
Do you now agree that God is not the only being in existence who has glory? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,The point “I” was making is: that Jesus came in his fathers glory. …do you agree with this?
God bless
Ed J
Ed, I really NEED you to DIRECTLY answer the question I asked.As far as your point, scripture does not say that Jesus came in his Father's glory that I'm aware of. What 1:14 does say is that the Word BECAME flesh, and that HIS glory was the glory, not of God Himself, but of the only begotten OF God.
So MY point is that the Word had a glory all his own. It was THAT glory John and the disciples beheld. And THAT glory was as of the only begotten from the Father…………..not as of the Father Himself.
Agreed?
mike
Hi Mike, and I need you to answer mine.Do you think that the glory anyone possesses comes from somewhere other than God?
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels;
and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (Matt.16:27)For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed,
when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. (Luke 9:26)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,11:04) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:28) 2) Can you point to any that do not?
More than you could count. Would you like me to do so?Here's just one:
1 Corinthians 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power,Both of the above bolded words are the Greek word “logos”. Which one of those refers to the Holy Spirit?
Hi Mike,Neither of those have the definite article, but you do understand
that the Apostle Paul(Shaool) is speaking of the power “OF” the HolySpirit, yes or no?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,11:06) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,10:08)
I want CLEAR acknowledgement from you that the genitive form of “theos” means “OF God”………..and NOTHING else.
Hi Mike,It can also be translated as God's (the possessive form of God); have you forgotten?
God bless
Ed J
Yes Ed. But “God's Spirit” and “Spirit OF God” mean EXACTLY the same thing.What I'm waiting for is your CLEAR acknowledgment that it can't mean “the God Spirit”.
Hi Mike,But, it can.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,11:14) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:50)
Do you assert that Jesus could have been made our high priest without being born?
No Ed, I don't. But that has nothing to do with my SCRIPTURAL point. My point is that Hebrews 7:28 is NOT speaking of Jesus' beginning, but of his appointment to High Priest……………WAY AFTER HE WAS BORN!Do you understand that the scripture is speaking about Jesus being made High Priest, and not about Jesus being made, period? YES or NO?
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:50)
Jesus wasn't born until after the law, so he couldn't have been made the high priest before.
No one said he was made High Priest before the Law. Please address the bolded point CLEARLY and DIRECTLY.mike
Hi Mike,Both points are fractally true, his appointment and birth. (See new thread)
You are attempting to do what Paladin has done…Paladin thinks that Jesus being declared to be the Son of God
after his resurrection (Rom.1:4), disqualifies the other declarations…1) His Pre-existence (Job 38:7)
2) His Conception. (Luke 1:35)
3) His Birth (Mathew 1:18, 20)
4) His Baptism (John 1:33-34)
5) His Ministry (Mathew 14:33)
6) His Crucifixion (Mark 15:39)
7) His Resurrection (Rom.1:4)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,11:25) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:54) Hi Mike, Consider this…
Sure Ed. Immediately AFTER you DIRECTLY address my point. Is Psalm 2:7 about Jesus, Ed? Is the same exact phrase said about the Word of God in Rev 19, Ed?What you are trying to do is DIVERT FROM my point. I will be happy to discuss your Isaiah scriptures. But not unless you are going to start actually ADDRESSING my points.
You didn't even post both scriptures in your response. Why? Is the direct link between them too overwhelming for your theory?
The problem is that you are avoiding the obvious and posting many other scriptures along with YOUR claim that they say what you think they do. But just like with Hebrews 7:28, they don't really say what you thought they did. And I will go through each and every one of them and show you this………..but only if you keep DIRECTLY ADDRESSING MY POINTS too.
Now…………what do you think about the scriptural FACT that the same words said about Jesus in Psalm 2 are said about the Word of God in Rev 19? Coincidence? What about when you add in the scriptural FACT that the beast and the kings of the earth wage war against the Lamb, and they also wage war against the Word of God? Are there TWO wars? Where do I read about that? Did the beast and his armies start to overwhelm the Lamb, and so the Word of God had to be sent to his aid? Where do I read about that?
What we seem to have is a lot of “coincidences” piling up against you.
mike
Hi Mike,Son in Psalm 2:7 is a direct reference to Jesus.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,
Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. (Psalms 2:7)Psalms 2:2-3 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD(Rev.19:11-21),
and against his anointed(Rev.17:14) saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,11:29) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,17:59) Hi Mike, You answer mine and I'll answer yours; deal?
The point “I” was making is: that Jesus came in his fathers glory. …do you agree with this?
I don't agree with it unless scripture says it, Ed. Does John 1 mention that Jesus came with “the Father's glory”? If not, then to assume so would be reckless. Also, “coming in” the Father's glory would not mean Jesus “had” the Father's glory. Jehovah shares His own glory with no one.Now, please answer my question.
Hi Mike,It would mean that the Father's glory was “IN” him.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,21:32) Do you think that the glory anyone possesses comes from somewhere other than God?
No Ed, I don't. Any glory that anyone ever had came from the Father putting them in the position to have glory in the first place.Solomon only had glory because the Father placed him in a glorious position. BUT………………….the glory of Solomon was SOLOMON'S glory, not the Father's.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE FATHER IS NOT THE ONLY BEING IN EXISTENCE THAT HAS GLORY? YES or NO?
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,21:42)
Neither of those have the definite article,Actually Ed………….
καὶ ὁ λόγος μου
…………..the bolded “O” above is the definite article “THE”. The Greek words above say, “AND THE WORD OF ME”. (Oh, and btw, it doesn't really say “OF ME”. But instead it is the GENITIVE FORM of the word “ME”, making it mean “OF ME” in English. And yes, we could also translate it as “MY WORD” in English, because “MY WORD” means the same exact thing as “THE WORD OF ME”. We could NOT, however, translate it as “THE WORD ME”.
)Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,21:42)
but you do understand
that the Apostle Paul(Shaool) is speaking of the power “OF” the HolySpirit, yes or no?
Yes Ed. He is speaking of the Holy Spirit in the sentence. But neither of the words “logos” are referring to the Holy Spirit.So………..have I solidly showed you that not every mention of the word “word” in scripture refers to the Holy Spirit? YES or NO?
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,21:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,11:06)
Yes Ed. But “God's Spirit” and “Spirit OF God” mean EXACTLY the same thing.What I'm waiting for is your CLEAR acknowledgment that it can't mean “the God Spirit”.
Hi Mike,But, it can.
Ed,Either show me an instance in scripture where ANY TRANSLATION has “the God Spirit”, or show me the words of a Greek scholar that says what you claim…………or else let it drop.
You saying “But it can” is of no consequence to ANYONE – not even yourself. Because I suspect that even YOU know that you are only trying to pull the wool over your OWN eyes.
Ed, you can insist that my name is Joe until the cows come home. Insisting won't make it true.
Ed, either show proof of “The God Spirit”, or OPENLY and DIRECTLY ADMIT to me that it is NOT an option.
mike
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2011,21:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2011,11:14) Do you understand that the scripture is speaking about Jesus being made High Priest, and not about Jesus being made, period? YES or NO? Hi Mike,
Both points are fractally true, his appointment and birth.
No, they are not, Ed. That scripture has NOTHING to do with the beginning of Jesus' existence. It ONLY has to do with him being made High Priest.
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