Is Jesus rightly called a god in scripture?

Blocked

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 13 2013,04:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 29 2013,04:47)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 25 2013,23:02)

If I taught that the Word was a god, then I would have to allow for the Word was THE God too.

That is just silly. Does 2 Cor 4:4 force you to allow for Satan being “THE God”? Of course not.

Besides, in the Greek language, Jesus is called “the god” in Hebrews 1:8.

I complain that people read John 1:1c as literally saying: “The Word was THE God”. And I complain about it because it is not there. So it is that i apply the same measurement to “the Word was A god”. As that too is not there.

I just think the safe bet is to take it qualitatively as that is how many scholars understand it anyway. Saying A god or THE God is not qualitative. In English both (THE & A) single out one as being God.

Would it not be even slightly hypercritical for me to say you cannot use THE, but you can use A. If I allow one, then surely I allow the other too. Yet neither are in the text.

t8,

Definite “the” and indefinite “a” are added by English translators thousands of times in scripture – as those articles are often NECESSARY for us English speakers to make sense out of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

Will you erase the word “a” from the scriptures over 7000 times to make your point? Go ahead and start from the beginning of the Bible – removing the word “a” from each scripture. Let's see how far you get before you end up with sentences that are nonsensical to us who speak English.

Right now, I need you to address Hebrews 1:8. In the phrase “O God”, the “O” is really the Greek DEFINITE ARTICLE “the”. So now you have an airtight case of Jesus being called “THE god”. Will you still pretend he isn't one? Will you still pretend that only Jehovah and Satan are real gods?

October 13, 2013 at 3:50 pm#359566

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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 13 2013,08:31)

Are your words “with” you? or are they not “with” you? You and your words are the same thing T8……….

Gene, t8 used to speak words to convince people of a Trinity Godhead, in his past. Are those words still “WITH” t8? Are those words “the same thing as t8” – who has since changed his understanding about a Trinity Godhead?

Gene, you are trying to make living entities out of the words someone speaks – as if those words are living things that can hang out with the person who spoke them. You are doing this because you realize the “Word” in John 1 IS described as a living entity who was with God in the beginning.

So your brain can understand that John was talking about a living entity who was with God in the beginning, but you don't want it to be a real living entity, so you blather this nonsense about the words someone spoke out of their mouth being with the person who spoke them. And about the words someone spoke actually BEING the person who spoke them. It is pure nonsense, Gene.

If I said the word “elephant” when I was five, is that word still “with me”? Am I an elephant because the words I spoke are actually me? See? Pure nonsense.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 13 2013,08:31)

Well seeing Mike opted out from answering my posted scriptures I will ask you.

Mike didn't “opt out”, Gene. Mike said he would HAPPILY address your points, one at a time, as long as you also addressed mine as we went.

So far, Mike has addressed the first scripture you listed, but you haven't addressed Mike's first scripture.

So it's really a case of YOU opting out – not Mike. If and when YOU finally address Heb 1:8 in a realistic way (ie: NOT saying that it wasn't about Jesus when the words make it crystal clear that it was), I will address your next scripture.

October 14, 2013 at 3:12 pm#359598

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,03:30)

No Gene.

I reject your “answer” because it starts off with, “Jesus is not being called a GOD”.

Yet the words say, But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever………

“The Son” is definitely the one being called “O God” by Jehovah Himself in that verse.

So answer the question ACCORDINGLY, and then we can move forward.

Denying that Jesus is the one being called “O God” in that verse is NOT an actual answer to my question, Gene. Instead, it is self-inflicted blindness on your part.

Mike……..because you reject my answer does not mean i never answered it now does it. Also here is another point for you to consider , Does “JESUS” throne last forever, scripture say it lasts for 1000 years and then he turns it over to God the Father, and becomes subject to it himself.

1Cor 15:23……> But every man in his own order, Christ the “firstfruits; afterward they that are Christs at his coming. (24) Then the end, when he (Jesus) shall have delievered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father, when he shall have put down all enemies and all authority and power. (25) For he must reign, “TILL” he has put all enemies under his feet.(27) For he (GOD) has put all things under his feet. Bit when he says all things are under him, it is manifest that he (God) is excepted, which did put all thing under him

So now Mike Who put all things “UNDER” Jesus' feet was it not GOD all along who put all things under him and is it not then GOD the Father who is establishing the Kingdom of God “Through” his son the “MAN” JESUS BY HIS (GODS) SEVEN SPIRITS with POWER given him to bring about the Kingdom of God on this Earth and also causing the enemies of Jesus to be put under his feet.

Lets go on..> (28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him (GOD) then shall the Son also “himself”, be subject unto him (GOD), that “PUT ALL THINGS UNDER HIM”, that GOD (the one and only God, Mike) may be “ALL” and “IN” ALL.

Just that simple, Jesus is NO GOD Mike, never was and never will be either, He is a pure human being from human origins, from the Loins of his flesh ancestor Kind David a fellow human being who Had placed on him the SEVEN SPIRITS of the Livingg God. He was uniquely born, because His DNA was manipulated in Mary's womb, to Look exactly as God the Father wanted him to look, as described in the book of Isaiah the Prophet. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

October 14, 2013 at 3:44 pm#359600

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2013,02:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 13 2013,08:31)

Are your words “with” you? or are they not “with” you? You and your words are the same thing T8……….

If I said the word “elephant” when I was five, is that word still “with me”? Am I an elephant because the words I spoke are actually me? See? Pure nonsense.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 13 2013,08:31)

Well seeing Mike opted out from answering my posted scriptures I will ask you.

Mike didn't “opt out”, Gene. Mike said he would HAPPILY address your points, one at a time, as long as you also addressed mine as we went.

So far, Mike has addressed the first scripture you listed, but you haven't addressed Mike's first scripture.

Mike …….Simply put you do not believe God The FATHER was “IN” Jesus, God who is a Spirit can and does Speak his words through People Just as he did “IN” the Prophets. You believe demons who are spirit can be in a Person and speak through them but you Don't believe GOD who is also a Spirit can do the same thing Amazing, simply Amazing.

And by the way, yes you past words were you at that time in you life. You can not separate you from your words even now, you are what you Speak, you and your word are one and the same. Simple Logic 101, or haven't you read this so a man Thinks so he is And as a man thinks is how he speaks and writes. IMO

It will be your very own words that you will be judged by according to scriptures, You and your word are one and the same thing. Your word proceed forth from your Heart and you heart is you rather you believe that or not it is the truth. If that were not true them who are these word you are typing coming from you or someone else other then you RIGHT? Tell us who is it that is writing those words you are typing is it a person that is with you or you?

October 14, 2013 at 10:55 pm#359607

Participant

Quote

SCRIPTURES ?

Rev 21:9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
Rev 21:11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.
Rev 21:12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Rev 21:13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west.
Rev 21:14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.
Rev 21:16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long.
Rev 21:17 He measured its wall and it was 144 cubits thick, by man’s measurement, which the angel was using.
Rev 21:18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass.
Rev 21:19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald,
Rev 21:20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.
Rev 21:21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Rev 21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
Rev 21:24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.
Rev 21:25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
Rev 21:26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
Rev 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Rev 22:2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
Rev 22:4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And .THEY WILL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER

NOT A 1000 YEARS;AS YOU SAY ;GENE

October 15, 2013 at 12:00 pm#359630

Participant

Terricca……..Again you try to change the subject matter, as usual, but to Just clarify, your above posts that takes place “after”, the thousand year reign of Jesus and the Saints on this earth. Need Proof?

Rev20:6……> Blessed and holy is he that has part in the “FIRST RESURRECTION” on such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God “AND” of Christ, and shall reign with him (Jesus) a “thousand” years.

In fact read the whole thing Pierre from Rev 20:1-7 it might help you better understand , and please note, the Saints are not Just the Priest of Jesus, but also it says of GOD, they are the priests of both , but notice One is called “GOD” and the other is called “Christ” (Jesus) Who is a Priest of God himself, they are not the same beings. It is God's Kingdom that will be set up and will endure for ever , not Jesus' Kingdom. Jesus will sit on an earthly throne of King David, ruling with GOD'S POWER until the thousand year are over and then He delivers it up to GOD the Father, Just as the scriptures i quoted states it in, 1 Cor 15:23-28 read it again or read the written quote i posted above.

Notice also in the Lords prayer what the “MAN” Jesus said, “THY” Kingdom Come “THY” will be done “ON EARTH” as it is done in Heaven. Only ONE GOD and Only ONE KINGDOM will continue to exist, Jesus is not setting up “His” own eternal kingdom, but GOD'S Kingdom on the Earth, after his Thousand years rule with the Saints of God. IMO

peace and love……………………gene

October 15, 2013 at 12:43 pm#359631

Participant

Mike……..Don't think you have escaped the Question you have never answered by, Pierre's diversions, What does this scripture mean to you Mike, “We know there are no Idols that in the world, and that there is ONLY “ONE” GOD”

Maybe Pierre or T8 can answer it for you? Lets see how you guys can tare down that scripture also as you have others to meet your belief that Jesus is a “PREEXISTING” GOD of some kind, or Angel as in your case Mike, even though Scripture say God has not subjected the world to come unto the Angels. So much for Jesus being and Angel right?

peace and love……………………………………….gene

October 15, 2013 at 3:14 pm#359632

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2013,18:00)

peace and love……………………gene

GENE

Quote

Notice also in the Lords prayer what the “MAN” Jesus said, “THY” Kingdom Come “THY” will be done “ON EARTH” as it is done in Heaven. Only ONE GOD and Only ONE KINGDOM will continue to exist, Jesus is not setting up “His” own eternal kingdom, but GOD'S Kingdom on the Earth, after his Thousand years rule with the Saints of God. IMO

pay attention THIS IS HAPPEN AFTER THE 1000 YEARS ;
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Satan’s Doom AFTER HE IS RELEASED FROM HIS PRISON AFTER THE 1000 YEARS ;

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
Rev 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Dead Are Judged THOSE OF THE SECOND RESURRECTION,

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Rev 20:15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

THIS IS ELIMINATE ALL YOUR VIEWS ON THE 1000 YEARS BECAUSE IT SEEMS THAT THE 1000 YEARS ARE FOR THOSE IN CHRIST ,RIGHT YES

Quote

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

verse 18;SO THAT IN EVERYTHING HE (CHRIST)MIGHT HAVE THE SUPREMACY, “DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT SUPREMACY MEANS AND THIS IS GIVEN TO HIM BY HIS GOD AND FATHER ,

1Co 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Rev 21:6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.
Rev 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Rev 22:6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”

Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”

Rev 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.
Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Rev 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the
murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

1CO 15:26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. WHEN DO YOU THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN BEFORE OR AFTER THE SECOND RESURRECTION

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The Dead Are Judged SECOND RESURRECTION,AFTER THE 1000 YEARS Ecc 12:13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.

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WAS THEIR ANY TIME THAT GOD WAS NOT THERE AND IS THE SON NOT A SERVANT OF HIS FATHER AND ARE NOT ALL THOSE THAT PARTICIPATE TO THE GLORY OF GOD HIS SERVANTS ???YES THEY ARE ;;;IF NOT THEY SERVE SATAN ,THEIR IS ONLY TWO POSSIBILITY BE WITH GOD OR BE WITH SATAN NO THIRD PARTY,

October 16, 2013 at 2:53 pm#359657

Participant

Terricca……..I was not talking about “AFTER” the thousand year rule of Jesus and the Saints, I was talking about where it says “thy Kingdom “O” God, is an everlasting Kingdom , meaning the “SON is a GOD thing.

All your doing is serving Mikes by diverting Him and T8 from answering my question about 1 Cor. 8:4, We know that there are no Idols in the world, and that there is “NO” God but “ONE” So quit throwing out a bunch of BS that has nothing to do with what we are talking about OK.

peace and love……………………………………..Gene

October 16, 2013 at 2:56 pm#359658

Participant

Mike ……Still waiting , to hear your and T8's answer to the Posted scripture, Now that your question has been hassed all around.

What does this mean to you guys…….1 Cor 8:4……> We know that there is no Idol in the world, and that there is “NO” GOD but “ONE”

peace and love…………………………………………gene

October 16, 2013 at 6:30 pm#359661

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 16 2013,20:53)

peace and love……………………………………..Gene

gene

it seems you are not consistent with all scriptures ,

1Co 8:1 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
1Co 8:2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3 But the man who loves God is known by God.
1Co 8:4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one.
1Co 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

the verse 6 above seems to be in line with what Paul says in ;

if Christ is the first of God creation then he most have been there so that God his father created ALL THINGS THROUGH HIM right YES

October 16, 2013 at 11:17 pm#359668

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,10:19)

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 13 2013,04:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 29 2013,04:47)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 25 2013,23:02)

If I taught that the Word was a god, then I would have to allow for the Word was THE God too.

That is just silly. Does 2 Cor 4:4 force you to allow for Satan being “THE God”? Of course not.

Besides, in the Greek language, Jesus is called “the god” in Hebrews 1:8.

Would it not be even slightly hypercritical for me to say you cannot use THE, but you can use A. If I allow one, then surely I allow the other too. Yet neither are in the text.

t8,

LOL!

Even the Henotheist are at odds over Jesus being THE God.

Yet they accuse the Trinitarian doctrine as being confusing!

October 17, 2013 at 12:17 am#359676

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 14 2013,09:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,03:30)

No Gene.

I reject your “answer” because it starts off with, “Jesus is not being called a GOD”.

Yet the words say, But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever………

“The Son” is definitely the one being called “O God” by Jehovah Himself in that verse.

So answer the question ACCORDINGLY, and then we can move forward.

Denying that Jesus is the one being called “O God” in that verse is NOT an actual answer to my question, Gene. Instead, it is self-inflicted blindness on your part.

Mike……..because you reject my answer does not mean i never answered it now does it.

When you answer it in accordance with TRUTH, we will move on.

Your “answer” is to say that the words “O God” are not about Jesus. And as I've pointed out, according to the words “About the Son He says………..”, those words ARE about “the Son”.

Is Jehovah a “Son”, Gene? If not, then which “Son” do you think was intended? In other words, about which “Son” is it said, “Your throne, O God, will last forever” ?

Gene, who is the “Son” those words are about?

When you get that answer CORRECT, we can move forward with the discussion. If you REFUSE to answer it correctly, then I REFUSE to discuss this matter any further with you.

Now that you know the “rules” that I'm playing by, the ball is in your court.

October 17, 2013 at 12:24 am#359677

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 16 2013,17:17)

LOL!

Even the Henotheist are at odds over Jesus being THE God.

Satan was called “the god of this age” and “the god of Ekron”.

I suppose, in your Trinitarian mind, that means he is also the very God he is the son of, huh?

Keith, the “Trinity” is now dead on this forum. We've ran all you guys off with the truth of scriptures. In time, we'll wipe that comically flawed, man-made travesty of truth right off the face of the earth.

October 20, 2013 at 3:52 pm#359781

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2013,11:17)

Is Jehovah a “Son”, Gene? If not, then which “Son” do you think was intended? In other words, about which “Son” is it said, “Your throne, O God, will last forever” ?

Mike………God, the FATHER, was “IN” the Son. or don't you believe what Jesus said > “the Father who is “IN” me “HE” does the WORKS>

Now apply that to your quoted scripture and you have the answer, or don't you believe God was and Is truly “IN” the Son, and that, His “SEVEN SPIRITS” with POWER, abides “IN” Him. Just as Revelation say they do. You have never come to see that God who is a SPIRIT, was TRULY “IN” Jesus have you? Jesus said he could do, “nothing” of (or from) “HIMSELF”. So if he was a separate God “himself”, he must have been a very weak one right?

One thing i can say about the Triitarians, they at least believe in only “ONE GOD” and they do see God's Presence “IN” Jesus' life, Problem is they believe Jesus is that God presence, that was in Him , but then you believe Jesus was Just ANOTHER OF YOUR MANY GOD'S you believe in. You both preach a “PRE-EXISTENT ” Jesus as a GOD so you both have that in common.

Still waiting for you answer to 1 Cor 8:4 , we (true Christians) Know that there is “NO” GOD, but “ONE” . I am sure given enough time you will come up with something that will disqualify that scripture also , like perhaps it was not a “emphatic” statement as you have said about other scriptures.

Just ignoring this scripture does not make it go away Mike, and using you BS about i never answered you question correctly, to meet you approval is only a cop-out IMO. Why not ask T8 and Pierre to help you find a way to answer it, seeing you seem not able to.

peace and love……………………………….gene

October 20, 2013 at 4:09 pm#359782

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 17 2013,05:30)

if Christ is the first of God creation then he most have been there so that God his father created ALL THINGS THROUGH HIM right YES

Pierre…….Not first created of all creation , “first-born” of all creation. “Born” means he came through a Womb of a women. He is first in “PLACE” OR “POSITION” not first in time of coming into existence as a being. Why can't you understand that? You transforming the word “first-born” to mean first-created” THEY ARE NOT THE SAME WORD.

peace and love………………………..gene

October 20, 2013 at 4:51 pm#359787

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2013,22:09)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 17 2013,05:30)

if Christ is the first of God creation then he most have been there so that God his father created ALL THINGS THROUGH HIM right YES

peace and love………………………..gene

GENE

like always scriptures do not agree with you ,but i am sure you have your personal interpretation for it ;

Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was BEFORE me.’

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

BEING BEFORE ALL THINGS DOES NOT MEAN AFTER

October 20, 2013 at 11:08 pm#359817

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2013,09:52)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2013,11:17)

Is Jehovah a “Son”, Gene? If not, then which “Son” do you think was intended? In other words, about which “Son” is it said, “Your throne, O God, will last forever” ?

Mike………God, the FATHER, was “IN” the Son. or don't you believe what Jesus said > “the Father who is “IN” me “HE” does the WORKS>

Now apply that to your quoted scripture and you have the answer……………

I don't understand, Gene. Are you saying that God was saying those things about HIMSELF, who happened to be dwelling in Jesus at the time?

You think God said to HIMSELF: “Your throne, O God, will last forever, because your God placed you above your companions”?

Are you sure?

October 22, 2013 at 11:39 am#359917

Participant

gene ?

October 22, 2013 at 10:02 pm#359950