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Hi Irene. It is certainly an interesting topic and you raise some pertinent verses on the subject.
Quick question: If Hell/Hades doesn't exist, why is it said to be thrown into the Lake of Fire? And why does Jesus give a parable based on it?
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,08:42) There must exist a holding place for the dead and according to at least one parable there was a place for the wicked and another for the righteos and they are/were separate. Now we do know that Hell (or whatever the Greek word for that is) exists. Because God throwns Hell into the Lake of Fire.
So instead of an eternal hell where people burn forever, God in his mercy destroys hell, thereby subjecting the wicked to the second death.
This is God's mercy because giving a sinner eternal life in misery and pain is not love at all.When Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge, God sent an angel to protect them from eating from the tree of life. This was speciffically done to stop man from living as a sinner forever. That shows the love of God.
T8………Scripture say when a man dies His thoughts PARISH, that is it no holding place at all Brother , if you have no thoughts you simply do not exist you have Perished until GOD resurrects you a Body and add spirit back into it , just as he did Jesus. The sad part is that people do not realize they are truly gone and do Perish when you die, there remains nothing more of you alive at all anymore, Only when God is ready to resurrect by reconstructing your exact DNA Body and add spirit back into it will you again live and again become a LIVING SOUL.It is appointed for a man to Once die the (AFTER) THAT THE JUDGMENT , not while he is in the state of being dead or perished, that Judgment can only take place after he is again resurected and then he can be Judged. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is to show a pending situation and the gulf is the difference between those who are already saved and those who must come into a fiery trial to be purged of their sins. It basically show those who are suffering now may be the ones who are being saved while those who are not suffering now may have to suffer some what later.
I think taking it literally as some kind of Neither world of activity taking place after a person dies can be a cause of much confusion and speculation by churches. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 09 2011,15:51) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2011,16:42) There must exist a holding place for the dead and according to at least one parable there was a place for the wicked and another for the righteos and they are/were separate. Now we do know that Hell (or whatever the Greek word for that is) exists. Because God throwns Hell into the Lake of Fire.
So instead of an eternal hell where people burn forever, God in his mercy destroys hell, thereby subjecting the wicked to the second death.
This is God's mercy because giving a sinner eternal life in misery and pain is not love at all.When Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge, God sent an angel to protect them from eating from the tree of life. This was speciffically done to stop man from living as a sinner forever. That shows the love of God.
Good points t8But you will find that many do not believe in a holding place for those who die but rather that they cease to exist and wait in the graves.
Jesus proved that theory wrong when he told the story of Lazarus and the rich man which is not a parable at all since Jesus never claimed it to be and the fact that he used a name which in parables he never did.
WJ
WJthe grave is for the body,not for the soul or spirit,
and all what is thoughts were relative to the earth are forgotten,no power to implement them,and his soul as no power because he misses a body to act.Pierre
Terricca…..Why does scripture say GOD would not suffer Jesus' SOUL to see Corruption (IN) the GRAVE if the Soul was not part of the Body. Notice Jesus' (BODY) is what did not corrupt (IN) the GRAVE, nothing is said about His Spirit corrupting. The word Nephesh Means the (COMPLETE BEING , NOT JUST PART OF HIM. Come out of your past MYSTERY RELIGIOUS Beliefs . When we die that is it for ever and unless GOD recreates a Exact DNA Body and adds spirit back into it we will NEVER LIVE AGAIN. A resurrection of a BODY and restoration of Spirit into it is Crucial for anyone to continue to live and that included Jesus himself as the Scripture (CLEARLY) SHOWS HE HAD A BODY, BY A RESURRECTION FROM THE GRAVE. When Jesus said he was DEAD he truly meant he (WAS DEAD). and he Still would be DEAD if GOD did not raise his BODY from the GRAVE and Restore Spirit back into it. Just that simple no need to confuse it all. IMO
peace and love…………………………………gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 09 2011,03:51) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2011,16:42) There must exist a holding place for the dead and according to at least one parable there was a place for the wicked and another for the righteos and they are/were separate. Now we do know that Hell (or whatever the Greek word for that is) exists. Because God throwns Hell into the Lake of Fire.
So instead of an eternal hell where people burn forever, God in his mercy destroys hell, thereby subjecting the wicked to the second death.
This is God's mercy because giving a sinner eternal life in misery and pain is not love at all.When Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge, God sent an angel to protect them from eating from the tree of life. This was speciffically done to stop man from living as a sinner forever. That shows the love of God.
Good points t8But you will find that many do not believe in a holding place for those who die but rather that they cease to exist and wait in the graves.
Jesus proved that theory wrong when he told the story of Lazarus and the rich man which is not a parable at all since Jesus never claimed it to be and the fact that he used a name which in parables he never did.
WJ
In other passages Scripture calls the holding place for the Wicked that await judgment Tartarus and the holding place of the righteous Paradise but some do not understand.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,14:17) Hi Irene. It is certainly an interesting topic and you raise some pertinent verses on the subject. Quick question: If Hell/Hades doesn't exist, why is it said to be thrown into the Lake of Fire? And why does Jesus give a parable based on it?
t8 I( did not imply that there is no Lake of Fire, there is in Rev. says so. Bur IMO that Judgment will happen after both resurrection, and after the White Throne Judgment,Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Happy are those who come up in the first resurrection, for them there is no fear of the second death.
It has made me not to fear death, only the pain in getting there. Also there are a multitude that stand in front of God and worship Him day and night, that have washed their robes white in the blood of the Lamb.Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Could this be talking of all those who are under the New Covenant in Jesus Blood? That is my hope….
Peace Irene
Yeah no probs Irene.
I was wondering about hell being thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Surely hell/hades must exist in order for it to be put in the Lake of Fire and if so, when does this take place?Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2011,03:24) Yeah no probs Irene. I was wondering about hell being thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Surely hell/hades must exist in order for it to be put in the Lake of Fire and if so, when does this take place?
Hades is the waiting place of the dead and there will be no more death or dying and thus no need for Hades or Death.It will therefore be trash destined to be incinerated.
To all,
Here are some scriptures that mention Gehenna.
Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,14:17) Hi Irene. It is certainly an interesting topic and you raise some pertinent verses on the subject. Quick question: If Hell/Hades doesn't exist, why is it said to be thrown into the Lake of Fire? And why does Jesus give a parable based on it?
t8 The Lake of Fire is the second death. That will take place after the Millennium and White Throne judgment.
All wicked, Anti-Christ and those who received the mark of the beast will be burned up.
Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
Peace and Love Irene
To All…..> mixing Symbolic language with literial language causes much confusion here. Notice brother Kerwin saying for instance with rearguards to the “PARABLE” he mentioned, that it says they would be cast into some “eternal fire”, it really does not say that, it says “Where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched”, was Jesus saying it (“the worm”) would NEVER DIE, No He was saying in effect that (IF) the “WORM” Does not die then the fire (intense Judgements) of GOD will not stop. A “worm” is compared to the Evil side of our natures causing us to do wrong and this is what can Prevent us or as the incorrect word used there “Offend” us. and we must get rid of it and submit our Will to the Will of GOD in order to not to enter into these intense judgments (Fire) of GOD. Scripture say GOD is the consuming Fire, but mixing up symbolic and Parabolic and Metaphoric language as being Literal is a Hugh problem in Christianity. IMO
There is not such thing as a eternal burning Hell Fire, only eternal and everlasting Judgements of GOD that will purify and cause all his creation to turn from its fallen state. “FOR YOU SHALL BE SALTED WITH FIRE”.
Mar 9:49……> For EVERY ONE SHALL BE SALTED WITH “FIRE”, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
Put in another way………Every one shall be Seasoned with Judgements of GOD, IMO
Judgment begins at the House of GOD, “NOW CONCERNING THIS “FIERY” TRIAL THAT HAS TRIED YOU AS IF SOME STRANGE THING HAS HAPPENED UNTO YOU”> THINK ABOUT IT. Fire in scripture is symbolic language for (INTENSE) JUDGMENTS OF GOD. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2011,00:30) To All…..> mixing Symbolic language with literial language causes much confusion here. Notice brother Kerwin saying for instance with rearguards to the “PARABLE” he mentioned, that it says they would be cast into some “eternal fire”, it really does not say that, it says “Where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched”, was Jesus saying it (“the worm”) would NEVER DIE, No He was saying in effect that (IF) the “WORM” Does not die then the fire (intense Judgements) of GOD will not stop. A “worm” is compared to the Evil side of our natures causing us to do wrong and this is what can Prevent us or as the incorrect word used there “Offend” us. and we must get rid of it and submit our Will to the Will of GOD in order to not to enter into these intense judgments (Fire) of GOD. Scripture say GOD is the consuming Fire, but mixing up symbolic and Parabolic and Metaphoric language as being Literal is a Hugh problem in Christianity. IMO There is not such thing as a eternal burning Hell Fire, only eternal and everlasting Judgements of GOD that will purify and cause all his creation to turn from its fallen state. “FOR YOU SHALL BE SALTED WITH FIRE”.
Mar 9:49……> For EVERY ONE SHALL BE SALTED WITH “FIRE”, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
Put in another way………Every one shall be Seasoned with Judgements of GOD, IMO
Judgment begins at the House of GOD, “NOW CONCERNING THIS “FIERY” TRIAL THAT HAS TRIED YOU AS IF SOME STRANGE THING HAS HAPPENED UNTO YOU”> THINK ABOUT IT. Fire in scripture is symbolic language for (INTENSE) JUDGMENTS OF GOD. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………………..gene
Greetings Gene….. Not withstanding the numerous interpretations of scripture….fire has always been simbolic and purposed for purification as well as consumption when the kindling is satiated and there is no more to consume the fire goes out…The scriptures regarding the lake of fire indicate that the fires are never satiated,however,the eternal torment appears to aimed at the beast and the false prophet,those who have the mark of the beast (the wicked)will be consumed and cease to exist….IMO…what do you think?Theodorej………Yes the Judgements of GOD will NEVER be Put Out, and the results of that Judgment (smoke) WILL ASCEND FOREVER. These lesson will never be forgotten ever. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Gene,
I am going to disagree with you on what the word “worm” means in Mark 9:47-48 as Jesus is quoting from Isaiah 66:22-24 and the context makes it clear the scripture is speaking of corpses. The worm spoken of it is therefore the worms that feed on the dead bodies as they lay in graves. The NIV takes that approach. The wording of this passage from Isaiah is what made a burning trash heap, Gehennah, an apt symbol since the trash on top burns and the trash lower down is eaten by worms.
References from NIV, copyright 2011.
Isaiah 66
22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
Mark 9
47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 12 2011,23:11) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 12 2011,22:14) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Mar. 12 2011,21:43) The law would say you are doomed to hell forever.
Hi Tim,That's what religion says! the law says no such thing!
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Revalation 20:11 The last Judgement-10And the adevil that deceived them was bcast into the lake of cfire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the aearth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no bplace for them.
12And I saw the adead, small and great, bstand before God; and the cbooks were opened: and another book was opened, which is the dbook of life: and the dead were ejudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their fworks.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and adeath and bhell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And adeath and bhell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the csecond death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
this is the truth. Peace-Mark
Hi Mark,If you identify 'hell' and the “Lake of Fire” as two different things,
why do you then act as if they are the same place?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Mar. 10 2011,09:01) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,14:17) Hi Irene. It is certainly an interesting topic and you raise some pertinent verses on the subject. Quick question: If Hell/Hades doesn't exist, why is it said to be thrown into the Lake of Fire? And why does Jesus give a parable based on it?
t8 I( did not imply that there is no Lake of Fire, there is in Rev. says so. Bur IMO that Judgment will happen after both resurrection, and after the White Throne Judgment,Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Happy are those who come up in the first resurrection, for them there is no fear of the second death.
It has made me not to fear death, only the pain in getting there. Also there are a multitude that stand in front of God and worship Him day and night, that have washed their robes white in the blood of the Lamb.Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Could this be talking of all those who are under the New Covenant in Jesus Blood? That is my hope….
Peace Irene
Irene and All: Please take a good look at Rev.20:12—I SAW THE DEAD,small and great, STAND BEFORE GOD;….
….and the Books were openend:…..and ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE:….
….THE DEAD WERE JUDGED OUT OF THOSE THINGS WHICH WERE WRITTEN…IN THE BOOKS, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.
Two books opened, one judgment of the dead. No judgment for those alive in Christ, they have already been judged by the word of God through Jesus.IMO, TK
Tim………..Jesus said those who believed on Him “HAVE PASSED FROM JUDGMENT TO LIFE”. So you are right they will not come into (THAT) Judgment , but scripture says also “JUDGMENT BEGINS AT THE HOUSE OF GOD” Those who are true Saints of GOD are being Judged NOW ,”AS CONCERNING THIS (fiery trial) WHICH HAS TRIED YOU as if some strange thing has happened unto you”. There are many types of Judgements Here is ONE, “for every mans work shall be tried and if he has built with precious stones or silver or gold he shall recieve a reward , if he has build with wood hay or stubble he shall suffer loss (BUT) HE SHALL BE (SAVE) YET AS BY (FIRE) (that is intense judgments) Judgment is essential for all human beings, “IT IS APPOINTED FOR MAN TO DIES BUT AFTER THAT JUDGMENT”> Saints of GOD are being judged NOW and suffer from those Judgements for any wrong they are doing (NOW) not Later.
Heb 12:6………> For whom the Lord loves he (CHASTENS), and SCOURGES (EVERY) son whom he receives.
Even as he did JOB> IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in his glory,
and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory.
32 Before him all the nations will be gathered,
and he will separate them one from another,
as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
The Righteous
34 Then the King will tell those on his right hand, ‘Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
35 for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat;
I was thirsty, and you gave me drink;
I was a stranger, and you took me in;
36 naked, and you clothed me;
I was sick, and you visited me;
I was in prison, and you came to me.’37 “Then the righteous will answer him, saying,
‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you;
or thirsty, and give you a drink?
38 When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in;
or naked, and clothe you?39 When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?’
40 “The King will answer them, ‘Most assuredly I tell you,
inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’The Wicked
41 Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you didn’t give me food to eat;
I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me in;
naked, and you didn’t clothe me;
sick, and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’44 “Then they will also answer, saying,
‘Lord, when did we see you hungry,
or thirsty,
or a stranger,
or naked,
or sick, or in prison,and didn’t help you?’
45 “Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most assuredly I tell you,
inasmuch as you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’The Judgment
46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”It might make ya'll feel better to rationalize eternal punishment away, but look at v 46 above. Ask God to change the bible or admit to yourselves that those who just pay lip service to God without lifting a finger are fooling themselves. Like it or not, God wants you to do something other than talk, complain, critisize and judge. Those on here too. If all you do is disect and argue the bible, but not follow it, you are a goat in Gods eyes, and that's not good. Peace Mark
Hi Mark,
Scripture interprets Scripture
People DON'T stay in the lake of fire forever. (Rev.15:2 / Matt. 5:26)
Matthew 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means
come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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