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Hi TT,
If you think we are to be as true Jews then even as Jews we need to be water baptised.The way of Christ is for all.
You must be born again of water and the spirit.Hi TT,
You were going to show us how Cornelius was not a gentile but a proselyte to support your idea that water baptism was only for Jews.Acts10
1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
7And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
8And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
9On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
18And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
21Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
23Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
24And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
30And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
32Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
33Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Have you found it yet?
Nick………A proselyte was a gentile convert who converted to the religion of the Jews, and Cornelius was one of those He believed in the same GOD as the Jew did and Prayed to Him also and was excepted by GOD too, and as a result was bound by the same rules the Jew were. And remember Peter did not have the future revelation that Paul was given later Brother. Paul added a more Spiritual side to our Faith then the rest of the other apostles did. He even said that GOD would Judge the intent of our Heart after (HIS) GOSPEL, remember. You full well know and understand Water Baptism could no way change You, but Spiritual Baptism does change you.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
G,
The whole point of the vision given Peter was to show God is no respecter of persons and now all men, Jews and greeks and other gentiles are acceptable to Him.Cornelius is not said to be a jew or a proselyte by Scripture but was ordered to be water baptised by one who walked with the Lord and Peter spoke the words of the Spirit of God.
Nick…….right , but remember Peter did not Know what was later revealed to Paul, Peter and the rest of the apostles believed the Law was still in effect right, Jesus told them to Keep the commandments, even the tithing law. For you give tithes of cummng etc, but leave out the weighter matter of the Law mercy and Judgment , this should you have done and not Left the other (tithing) undone. So are we then to tithe Jesus said to don't leave it (UNDONE). So Start preaching tithing brother because Jesus said to. Get my point brother Peter and the other apostles and even Paul were still under the old Law, until Paul was give great revelations From Jesus and the Father putting the church on a more Spiritual plain, according to Paul's Gospel. For God shall Judge the intent of the Heart according to (MY) Gospel. IMO
peace and love to you and your……………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2009,09:11) G,
The whole point of the vision given Peter was to show God is no respecter of persons and now all men, Jews and greeks and other gentiles are acceptable to Him.Cornelius is not said to be a jew or a proselyte by Scripture but was ordered to be water baptised by one who walked with the Lord and Peter spoke the words of the Spirit of God.
Nick,
Cornelius was a Jew. It explicitly says that he was a “devout man.” This meant that he was a Jew,Quote And there were dwelling in Jerusalem JEWS, devout men, from every nation under heaven (Acts 2:5) The whole point of the vision given Peter was to show God was not a respecter of persons, but would save all Jews/proselytes from all nations.
In Acts 2 Peter explicitly commanded the Jews to be baptized. There is no such command to Gentiles in the book of acts. You are making an invalid inference. According to Paul the Gentiles were justified by their obedience to the revelation of God in nature. (Rom. 2).
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2009,09:42) Hi TT,
So all devout men are Jews??
Nick,
There you go again. When you are disproven you just reply with a question. Yes, all “devout men” were proselyte-Jews. Show us from the book of Acts when a Gentile was commanded by the apostles to be baptized.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2009,09:53) Hi TT,
Does scripture tell you this?
So to be devout you cannot yet be a jew?
Nick,
I asked you to show from the book of Acts when a Gentile was commanded to be baptized. You've been challenged.thinker
Hi tt,
So Cornelius is not said to be a jew or a proselyte so how did you decide he was a proselyte?
Jews and gentiles can be equally devout as can you and I.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2009,12:07) Hi tt,
So Cornelius is not said to be a jew or a proselyte so how did you decide he was a proselyte?
Jews and gentiles can be equally devout as can you and I.
For the third time now I ask: When in the Acts were Gentiles commanded to be baptized?thinker
Hi TT,
God showed Peter in the vision that he was to be like God and not a respecter of persons and admit these gentiles.Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 26 2009,18:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2009,12:07) Hi tt,
So Cornelius is not said to be a jew or a proselyte so how did you decide he was a proselyte?
Jews and gentiles can be equally devout as can you and I.
For the third time now I ask: When in the Acts were Gentiles commanded to be baptized?thinker
Questions to be met with an answer are perplexing to some. Is this what you have reference to:Acts 10:33 Now therefore we are all here in the presence of God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord.”
Act 10:44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
Act 10:45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
Then Peter declared,
Act 10:47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Seeking
Seekng ………Now ask yourself would God have removed the Spirit He gave them if they were not water baptized. Receiving the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with water baptism. A person is made right with the Baptism of Christ , (spirit and fire) water can never change anyone. IMO John told Jesus when He came to him to be baptized , “I have need to be Baptized by you”, Its the baptism of Christ that counts not the baptism of John. No where do i recall Paul commanding the Gentiles to be water Baptized. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 26 2009,20:31) Seekng ………Now ask yourself would God have removed the Spirit He gave them if they were not water baptized. Receiving the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with water baptism. A person is made right with the Baptism of Christ , (spirit and fire) water can never change anyone. IMO John told Jesus when He came to him to be baptized , “I have need to be Baptized by you”, Its the baptism of Christ that counts not the baptism of John. No where do i recall Paul commanding the Gentiles to be water Baptized. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………gene
Gene,This was the questioned posed and I undertook to find the answer:
For the third time now I ask: When in the Acts were Gentiles commanded to be baptized?
Here is the answer:
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
You wrote –
Quote No where do i recall Paul commanding the Gentiles to be water Baptized. IMO Let me print it again –
1) Acts 10:33 Now therefore we are all here in the presence of God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord.”
2) Act 10:44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
3) Act 10:45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
4) Then Peter declared,
Act 10:47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”5) Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
Please pay particular attention to numbers three and five. Gentiles were identified in (3) and commanded to be baptized in (5).
What about the scriptures cited generated the rest of your reply? Do they infer something you find odious?
Seeking
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 27 2009,08:58) Nick………A proselyte was a gentile convert who converted to the religion of the Jews, and Cornelius was one of those He believed in the same GOD as the Jew did and Prayed to Him also and was excepted by GOD too, and as a result was bound by the same rules the Jew were. And remember Peter did not have the future revelation that Paul was given later Brother. Paul added a more Spiritual side to our Faith then the rest of the other apostles did. He even said that GOD would Judge the intent of our Heart after (HIS) GOSPEL, remember. You full well know and understand Water Baptism could no way change You, but Spiritual Baptism does change you. peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Amen Gene!But Nick don't care about facts.
thinker
Seeking said:
Quote Questions to be met with an answer are perplexing to some. Is this what you have reference to: Acts 10:33 Now therefore we are all here in the presence of God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord.”
Act 10:44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
Act 10:45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
Then Peter declared,
Act 10:47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Seeking,
The Greek “ethnos” should not be translated “Gentiles.” It should be translated simply as “nations”. See Young's Analytical Concordance. The “nations” mentioned in Acts 10 refer to the uncircumcised of Israel and/or uncircumcised Gentile converts. This is the historical fact.People on this board keep ignoring that the “Gentiles” who had not been incorporated into the covenant, and who had never heard the Gospel were saved according to their obedience to the message in nature (Rom. 2). The message in nature did not say “be baptized.”
I try to answer all the Scriptures given me by others. But my point about the salvation of Gentiles according to the revelation of God in nature, which was without the mandate to be baptized keeps being ignored.
thinker
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