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Nick………. Tell us are you walking in the way of salvation then. Your getting the word (condemned) mixed up with Judged , look it up. And even if here actions were condemned doesn't mean they are. Judge (nothing before the time) right. God purpose is to save not destory. And who shooting the messenger here , i am certainly not, but I know they aren't the messengers words they are the one who sent Hims words. So in you mind are these Jesus' word or the one who sent Hims words. Give Glory to whom Glory is due, and Honor to whom Honor is due. God gives HIS GLORY to (NO) MAN> your not trying to rob Peter to Pay Paul are you brother.
love and peace to you and yours……………………gene
HGB,
It is the Word of God that gives men options.
By their own choice they can live or die.Jn3
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
men must COME TO JESUS.
Nick………do you come to the Light then , so tell us some of you eminent sins you commit. And if Not then i guess those words you quote about men loving darkness instead of light may also apply to you, unless you are sinless, which i Highly doubt. Do you confess you sins to Jesus or to the FATHER, Who is faithful to forgive Us and Cleanse us from (ALL) unrighteousness. Jesus can't do that NICK only GOD the FATHER can. Give GLORY to whom GLORY is DUE and HONOR to whom HONOR is DUE. GOD said He gave HIS GLORY TO NO MAN. Are you stealing his glory and giving it to a man? Here O ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE ) LORD. Honor Jesus as the Son, Honor The FATHER as GOD. Mixing them up will only bring discouragement in the end. Not him who says Lord Lord to me shall inter in to the kingdom but he who does the WILL of the FATHER, not the will of Jesus. But the FATHERS WILL. Many will fall into this trap NICK, i hope you won't.
love and peace to you……………………gene
Thinker said:
Quote Since the commission to baptize was to the APOSTLES and they're all dead now, then baptism died with them. For Jesus did not give the authority to baptize to everyone. Nick replied:
Quote Are they? 1Cor12
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Nick,
You are taking 1 Corinthians out of its historical context. That epistle was written to Jewish Christians. Only Jews were apostles in the early church. There is no Jewish race today. Therefore, no one has the authority to baptize today because only Jews were ordained as apostles and only apostles had the authority to baptize. Peter told ISRAEL that THEIR sons and daughters would prophesy (Acts 2, Joel 2)You are committing the Fallacy of Generalization. You are assuming that an epistle written to the part applies to the whole. You are assigning promises made to ancient Israel and extending it to Gentiles today. If you say that Gentiles were also apostles I will ask you to prove it.
thinker
Hi TT,
The body of Christ knows no time context.Acts 2
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2009,12:25) Hi TT,
The body of Christ knows no time context.Acts 2
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Nick,
You're correct that the body of Christ knows no time context. But the “promise” mentioned in Acts 2:39 is salvation. How does this prove that baptism applies today and that people other than Jewish apostles had the authority to baptize? Baptism was a Jewish ritual and that's why Jesus chose only Jews as apostles. That's why the hostile Jews never complained about the baptisms in the book of Acts. If Gentiles would have been performing baptisms then there would have been an uproar by the unbelieving Jews.Do you want truth or tradition? The truth is that only Jews were appointed as apostles and only apostles could baptize. Therefore, if baptisms are valid today it would be only those that have been performed by Jewish apostles.
So you should have asked the man who baptized you if he is a Jewish apostle because Gentiles were never appointed as apostles and only apostles had the authority to baptize. You have said elsewhere that “inference has no place with the sacred”. Yet you engage in inference like everyone else. You infer that the gift of apostles applied to Gentiles as well as Jews.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2009,12:25) Hi TT,
The body of Christ knows no time context.Acts 2
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Nick,
You're correct that the body of Christ knows no time context. But the “promise” mentioned in Acts 2:39 is salvation. How does this prove that baptism applies today and that people other than Jewish apostles had the authority to baptize? Baptism was a Jewish ritual and that's why Jesus chose only Jews as apostles. That's why the hostile Jews never complained about the baptisms in the book of Acts. If Gentiles would have been performing baptisms then there would have been an uproar by the unbelieving Jews.Do you want truth or tradition? The truth is that only Jews were appointed as apostles and only apostles could baptize. Therefore, if baptisms are valid today it would be only those that have been performed by Jewish apostles.
So you should have asked the man who baptized you if he is a Jewish apostle because Gentiles were never appointed as apostles and only apostles had the authority to baptize. You have said elsewhere that “inference has no place with the sacred”. Yet you engage in inference like everyone else. You infer that the gift of apostles applied to Gentiles as well as Jews.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 08 2009,20:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2009,12:25) Hi TT,
The body of Christ knows no time context.Acts 2
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Nick,
You're correct that the body of Christ knows no time context. But the “promise” mentioned in Acts 2:39 is salvation. How does this prove that baptism applies today and that people other than Jewish apostles had the authority to baptize? Baptism was a Jewish ritual and that's why Jesus chose only Jews as apostles. That's why the hostile Jews never complained about the baptisms in the book of Acts. If Gentiles would have been performing baptisms then there would have been an uproar by the unbelieving Jews.Do you want truth or tradition? The truth is that only Jews were appointed as apostles and only apostles could baptize. Therefore, if baptisms are valid today it would be only those that have been performed by Jewish apostles.
So you should have asked the man who baptized you if he is a Jewish apostle because Gentiles were never appointed as apostles and only apostles had the authority to baptize. You have said elsewhere that “inference has no place with the sacred”. Yet you engage in inference like everyone else. You infer that the gift of apostles applied to Gentiles as well as Jews.
thinker
Hi TT,
If the command to the disciples of Jesus was for a short time only it is odd that it was not mentioned.If there was a time period limiting that command again how strange that God did not tell us what to do after that time.
Are we expected to make up our own ideas after then? Is that what you think?The ideas of men are random and untrustworthy and you will never find agreement. Sort of tower of Babel territory.
No the words of Jesus are words of life and will never pass. Obedience to them brings good fruit. Confusion cannot.
Galatians 1:7
which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.Galatians 5:10
I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be.1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.James 3:16
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.Nick said:
Quote If the command to the disciples of Jesus was for a short time only it is odd that it was not mentioned. Nick,
First, Jesus told His disciples that as they baptized He would be with them until the end of the age (old covenant age). This gives a hint. The end of that age came.Second, I have pointed out several times that baptisms and external regulations were imposed “until the time of the new order” (or new covenant age), Heb. 9:9-10.
Third, only men who were ordained by Christ had the authority to baptize. Men today are not ordained by Christ. They are “ordained” by other men. Therefore, any baptisms men perform today are altogether meaningless!
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2009,07:12) Hi TT,
He was with them, as Spirit, and that age began when that Spirit was given.
Nick,
Your view that the new covenant age began when the Spirit was given is not possible for the Holy Spirit was first given in the LAST days. It is not at all plausible that the dawning of a new age is designated by the expression “the last days”.The Spirit was first given in the LAST days of the old covenant age and continues to be given in the new covenant age.
thinker
Hi TT,
You add your own suppositions there.
These seem contemporaneousActs 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:2 Timothy 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;James 5:3
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.2 Peter 3:3
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,Hi TT,
You said“Nick,
First, Jesus told His disciples that as they baptized He would be with them until the end of the age (old covenant age). This gives a hint. The end of that age came.”Really?
Then how do these verses relate?Matthew 13:39
and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.Matthew 13:40
“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.Matthew 13:49
“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,Matthew 24:3
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”Matthew 28:20
teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”1 Corinthians 10:11
Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 10 2009,11:37) Hi TT,
You add your own suppositions there.
These seem contemporaneousActs 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:2 Timothy 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;James 5:3
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.2 Peter 3:3
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,Nick,
The expression “these last days” are the last days of the old covenant age which I have said. How do your Scripture references disprove me? I don't follow your logic.Paul said that the new covenant age was “at hand”
Quote The night is far spent , the day is AT HAND. Therefore, let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light (Rom. 13:13). The “night” was the old covenant age and the “Day” is the new covenant age. Paul said that the Day was “at hand”, not quite yet, but “at hand.” We are in the Day (new covenant age) now!
thinker
Hi TT,
Romans 13:12
The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.The day is the return of Jesus
1 Thessalonians 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.We are of the day
1 Thessalonians 5:5
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.Hi TT,
You say
“Do you want truth or tradition? The truth is that only Jews were appointed as apostles and only apostles could baptize.”Apostles are those who are sent.
Ananias was no apostle was he?
Hi TT,
Who baptised Cornelius?Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Nick said:
Quote he night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. The day is the return of Jesus
Nick,
Your treatment of the text won't work because Paul said that the Day was “at hand”. This means that the Day was near THEM. Jesus said that the one who betrays Him is “at hand” (Mark 14:42).The expression “at hand” means that something is NEAR to the person or audience in the narrative. In the case of Romans 13 the Day was near to THEM. It was the new covenant age.
thinker
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