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Nick…..Jesus was baptized with water Paul was Peter was telling people to be now do you honestly think he and the rest of the apostles were not. At first you imply none of the apostles were baptized the when i show you Paul was then you say were the rest then. Your motives are just to argue and it's oblivious to me.
You see this proves my point with you no matter what you just choose to be in deferent to any common sense. If you have a better explanation then just present it.
Hi GB,
Paul was a different apostle-he said so.
Were the rest baptised in water?Commonsense is not a good proof.
Hi GB,
Why are you so resistant to testing things by the Word of God?
We all must avoid becoming fossilised in doctrinal dogmas.
and listen to scriptural warnings about speculations.It is not personal.
None of us owns truthHi Nick.
I find Gene to be very clear in his views on baptism, of which I agree with. You, on the other hand, when unable to debate with scripture and facts, veer off on another tangent with statements like this last post of yours, accusing him (Gene) “to avoid becoming fossiliesed in doctrinal dogmas”. Now what is that suposed to mean? As usual, no scripure is quoted, that way you can accuse and not be pinned down, your usual method of avoiding any particular point.Blessings.
Hi CO,
So do you agree that only Spirit baptism is necessary for salvation, that it washes us inwardly
and that the apostles only baptised in water because they were relatively ignorant and immature?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2008,15:24) Mandy …..let no one deceive you with vain arguments . without Spiritual baptism of Holy Spirit there will be (NO) change in your or anyone else's life at all. It takes the Spiritual mind of God to cause change and with out that a person only has the Carnal mind and that mind is a enemy of God and is not subject to the laws of God (NEITHER) CAN BE. I don't care if the person is baptized in water a thousand time it won't change Him. Peter said the Israelites were baptized under the cloud, and when they went through the red sea did that change them (NO) John said I indeed baptize with water (BUT) He who comes after me Will Baptist you with Spirit and Fire, a completely different baptism. One is symbolic the other saves you and changes you. Stop and ask yourself if water Baptism would save you why have another one then
Just plain common sense.. Water baptism never changed anyone, but Spiritual baptism did and does. In my opinion.peace to you and your………gene
But brother,In Acts after the boys received the Holy Spirit, Peter addresses the crowd and says:
Acts 2:37, 38
When the people heard this [that the Holy Spirit was promised and given], they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brother's, what shall we do?”
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven.
And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit [the promise for you….].
The baptism that Peter spoke of here is one of repentence. This is water baptism.
Acts 2 goes on to say that ….those who accepted his [Peter's] message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
If water baptism is only symbolic – that is some pretty serious symbolism dude.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ
as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and an antichrist.Verse 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things that we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
Verse 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who does abide in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
Verse 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him.
Verse 11 For He who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
JOHN 17:5 “ And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was..
Ephesians 4:14 that we should no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive.
Ephesians 5: 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Math. 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
I thought I would put this article here that my Husband wrote, it might not fit all the way, but I find it very important.
Peace and Love IreneIrene,
You are very lucky to have a husband who is so faithful to the Lord. I am also encouraged by the men who love God on this site. Most all of the men in my life are not believer's.I am the spiritual leader in our household, which I hate. I've always wanted Dan to step up to that God given role. My son recently has been leading us in thanksgiving at dinner. I cannot tell you how much it thrills me to see him offer to give thanks.
Tell Georg thanks for sharing with us. I sure wish he would participate more on this forum! But then you would have to share the computer with him!
Say, Irene, how come I never see your “light” on anymore? I always like to see people's lights on….it makes me feel less alone.
Mandy! Georg does not like to debate with others. He will share His understanding, but that is all. He is kind of a simple kind of a Guy. He is so strong, I am very lucky to have Him in my Life. But I have to admit to you, that I did not always felt that way. Only when I grown up some did I begin to realize that. I am a slow bloomer.
As far as my light is concerned I lost that when I changed my users name, and have no idea how to get all back, I have tried so I gave up. But there are not to many Anonymous Members, especially not in the middle of the night like right now.
Love IreneAbout your light, try this:
Go to “Log out” in the upper left corner. Log out.
When you log back in, there will be an option whether or not you want to be listed with the active users – say YES! Then your light will come on again.Hope this helps?
Mandy…..remember when Peter told them to repent and be baptized they had already repented of Killing Jesus, saying men and brethren what shall we do seeing we have put to death the son of God., The baptism of the Holy Spirit already convicted them in there hearts, so what repentance was Peter talking about then, he was telling to repent of their unbelief which basically already happened and water baptism was just a symbolic gesture of their faith which they already had been given by the Holy Spirit they received on the day of Pentecost. Water baptism is symbolic of the faith your already have but itself never changes any one. What changes a person is the Baptism of the Spirit.
imo………..gene
Whether or not it changes a person is regardless, imo. It is recommended by the disciples of Christ! Whether or not we benefit from such symbolism is not what we should be asking ourselves. We should be obedient to the call.
The disciples taught water baptism.
Was the African who was baptized on the side of the road ever filled with the Spirit? It doesn say, does it? But he was water baptized and “counted” among believer's.Hi not3,
Indeed
Hebrews 10:22
let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.Hi GM,
For us to be able to approach Him our God requires we be of faith, repentant and obediently reborn of water and the Spirit.
He has responded by sprinkling us inwardly cleansing us with the blood of the lamb slain for our salvation.
Such is the cleansing of the inside of the cup Jesus urged the Pharisees to pursue.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 17 2008,08:42) Hi GM,
For us to be able to approach Him our God requires we be of faith, repentant and obediently reborn of water and the Spirit.
He has responded by sprinkling us inwardly cleansing us with the blood of the lamb slain for our salvation.
Such is the cleansing of the inside of the cup Jesus urged the Pharisees to pursue.
GM I like to add this, that we are to be submerged into water, not just sprinkled like the Catholic Church does. Even tho it is only meant to be symbolicly speaking that the water washes us clean of all sins, it is important. It is the Blood of Christ that really washes us clean. We are Baptized in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. It should say and God's Holy Spirit. We are given God's Holy Spirit so we can understand which is of God, without the Holy Spirit we could not understand.
Peace and Love IreneHi all.
Much confusion could be eliminated if we realize that Jesus' teaching was to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt.15:24) the Jews. “Now He (Jesus), answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (the Jews)See also Ro.15:8 “For I am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises”.
Also see Pauls commission, Ro15:16 “Yet more daringly do I write to you, in part, as prompting you, because of the grace being given to me from God, for me to be the minister of Christ Jesus for the nations, acting as a priest of the evangel of God, that the approach present of the nations may be becoming well received, having been hallowed by holy spirit”.
Please remember, if we think Jesus' message was for us, then we are under the”law”, as was He when His message was given. He was cicumcised, did not eat “unclean foods”, observed all the holy days, including the “day of atonement”, and all the many “laws” in the book of Leviticus. I'm sure you wouldn't want to have to observe all thos laws, just read them for yourselves.
Pauls epistles are for us in this generation, we (Gods chosen) have been “baptized” with the holy spirit, as Gene states in his posts, and have no need for water baptism.
Blessings.
chosenone……….Amen brother, You can get wet all you want to it wont save you< It's the baptism of the Spirit And Fire that save you Period, nothing more or nothing less. Trust me all those who go running to Christ when he comes were all water baptized and it didn't seem to have done them any good.
But I am willing to bet that all who are baptized with Holy Spirit and Fire, will be saved and accepted at that time. AS i said before it's not wrong to be water baptised but it can never change a person, and Paul grow to see that, thats why he said there is only ONE BAPTISM, not two or more.
Peace to you and yours………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 18 2008,11:48) chosenone……….Amen brother, You can get wet all you want to it wont save you< It's the baptism of the Spirit And Fire that save you Period, nothing more or nothing less. Trust me all those who go running to Christ when he comes were all water baptized and it didn't seem to have done them any good. But I am willing to bet that all who are baptized with Holy Spirit and Fire, will be saved and accepted at that time. AS i said before it's not wrong to be water baptised but it can never change a person, and Paul grow to see that, thats why he said there is only ONE BAPTISM, not two or more.
Peace to you and yours………gene
Amen to that brother. Only thing I want to ask you is whether we have to give away with water baptism completely? Is it not necessary as an outward symbolic (representation) obedience of what is happening in side us?
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