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Nick.
For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
God works by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit in us. Therefore we have been “baptized with the Holy Spirit”.Blessings.
To All………the apostles were water baptized and remained totally carnal minded it made no difference in their lives, as scriptures has shown in many places, one of them even betrayed Jesus in fact they all forsake Him and Jesus even called Peter Satan all this was done after water baptism there was no change on them.
In fact Jesus never converted one single person in His ministry, But when the apostles were Baptized with Fire and Spirit as John (PLAINLY) said Jesus would baptize with, the apostles changed and their ministry started, It was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that really counted. That should be oblivious to any one who has (truly) understood the scriptures.
peace to all who understand…………..gene
Hi Gene,
Thanks for your post, a very good description about baptizm. You obviously have been “baptized” with the Holy Spirit, the various posts you have participated in are very much the “truth”. We all still might disagree on some items, but God is still working in us, “For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we shopuld be walking in them”.God Bless.
Chosenone ………..Amen brother we are HIS WORK in progress. If only people could understand God the Father Absolute (Sovereign) involvement in our lives, they could have so much peace in them.
Blessings to you and yours………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2008,07:47) To All………the apostles were water baptized and remained totally carnal minded it made no difference in their lives, as scriptures has shown in many places, one of them even betrayed Jesus in fact they all forsake Him and Jesus even called Peter Satan all this was done after water baptism there was no change on them. In fact Jesus never converted one single person in His ministry, But when the apostles were Baptized with Fire and Spirit as John (PLAINLY) said Jesus would baptize with, the apostles changed and their ministry started, It was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that really counted. That should be oblivious to any one who has (truly) understood the scriptures.
peace to all who understand…………..gene
Bro Gene,I fully agree and appreciate your post!
I wonder though, are there any scriptures that seem to indicate that water baptism was replaced or is now part of the old covenant maybe?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2008,07:47) To All………the apostles were water baptized and remained totally carnal minded it made no difference in their lives, as scriptures has shown in many places, one of them even betrayed Jesus in fact they all forsake Him and Jesus even called Peter Satan all this was done after water baptism there was no change on them. In fact Jesus never converted one single person in His ministry, But when the apostles were Baptized with Fire and Spirit as John (PLAINLY) said Jesus would baptize with, the apostles changed and their ministry started, It was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that really counted. That should be oblivious to any one who has (truly) understood the scriptures.
peace to all who understand…………..gene
Hi GB,
It is not a matter of power proving salvation.
Many will tell Jesus of the works or power they have done and he will not know them.
it is a matter of obedience to the righteous demands of God and we must obey as Jesus obeyed.Yes, Nick you have a point.
Also water baptism is following the Lord in his death and resurrection, symbolically now but literally later. Being baptized with the Holy Spirit does not symbolize this important step. Something to think about maybe?
Amen not3,
Men want to be raised but not to die.John 12:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.Rom6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Hi not3,
Is there not a song
“everyone wants to go to heaven
but nobody wants to die”But dying is so easy, unlike the suffering of the Christ we are reborn into, of repentance and water.
To All………Did the apostles put themselves to death when they were with Jesus, scripture show they did not, why because they couldn't until they received Power from on High which gave them the power to put there wills to death Just like Jesus. Now when did they receive that power when they were water baptized or when they were baptized with Fire and Spirit.
Jesus told Peter Satan wanted to sift Him like Flour, but Jesus prayed for Him that the Father would cause His faith not to fail, then He went on to say, after he became converted he should strengthen the brothers. Is it interesting he could not do that before he was empowered from on High by the Spirit and Fire Baptism he received later even though He had been already been water baptized.
Water baptism is symbolic and produces (NO) change in a persons life, it's the Baptism of the Spirit that does the changing, and nothing else, you cant even truly repent with out the Spirit of God, It's the GRACE (GOD”S INFLUENCING POWER) that causes Change . WE are put to death by that same Spirit that put Christ Jesus to death, the same Spirit Jesus had in Him.
People have been lead to think that water baptism is what changes them it's their “so called” acceptance of Christ . And i would say all who came to Jesus and say in your man we did all these (GOOD) works were water baptized and it appears it did them no good. But show me One who was Baptized with the Holy Spirit that failed. WHY?
because for them to fail then God would Have to fail because that what they received into them was God the Father's own Nature BY his own Spirit and it doesn't fail, because God doesn't fail.
All who have God's spiritual Baptism in them will not fail, why because greater is he that is in them the he thats in the world, and again for you are created unto righteousness and again for he who began a work in you will complete it, and again for it is God who works in you both to (WILL) and do of His good Pleasure.
God the Father is SOVEREIGN and He does (NOT) Fail. He is the potter we the Clay never forget that.
peace………gene
Hi GB,
Appealing to logic is one way to try to establish a doctrine.
Teaching obedience to the revealed plan of God is better.Rom6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Hi GB,
There is indeed no record of the apostles being water baptised themselves.
The holy one of God who was given all authority told them they had been washed instead in the Word.
We, however, do not have any given licence to alter the demand for all to be reborn of water and the Spirit.Jn15
3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.Quote (Not3in1 @ June 16 2008,08:35) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2008,07:47) To All………the apostles were water baptized and remained totally carnal minded it made no difference in their lives, as scriptures has shown in many places, one of them even betrayed Jesus in fact they all forsake Him and Jesus even called Peter Satan all this was done after water baptism there was no change on them. In fact Jesus never converted one single person in His ministry, But when the apostles were Baptized with Fire and Spirit as John (PLAINLY) said Jesus would baptize with, the apostles changed and their ministry started, It was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that really counted. That should be oblivious to any one who has (truly) understood the scriptures.
peace to all who understand…………..gene
Bro Gene,I fully agree and appreciate your post!
I wonder though, are there any scriptures that seem to indicate that water baptism was replaced or is now part of the old covenant maybe?
Mandy…..water baptizing is (symbolic) and i believe it was changed a few times at First it was symbolic of cleansing for temple worship which took the form of repentance and latter became the symbolic sign of dieing and raising to life with Jesus, but all these were symbolic only, they produced no real effect in a persons life in my opinion, But the Baptism of Jesus which is Spirit and Fire most certainly does produce true change.Just the way i see it ……………..gene
Nick…….So now you are saying the apostles were not baptized with water I find that hard to believe. So they were baptizing but they were not that would kind of make them Hypocrites then would it not. Of course i totally disagree with you, and if you read Act 9:18 you will see the apostle Paul was indeed baptized.
Common sense would have told you that, but the reason you said that had nothing to do with scripture or common sense, Just a reason to disagree.IMO……..gene
Hi GB,
Fair question mandy.
It is certainly not written as such.
To head down that doctrinal path you have to go beyond scripture.Are life changes the gold standard as proofs?
Certainly Spirit baptism does produce amazing changes.
But is that enough for or God or is obedience more important?Is obedient fruit not more important than gifts?
Mt7
20″So then, you will know them by their fruits.21″Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22″Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?
Quote (chosenone @ June 16 2008,07:40) Nick.
For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
God works by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit in us. Therefore we have been “baptized with the Holy Spirit”.Blessings.
Hi GB,
Water baptism is not our works.
Do you ever hear of anyone baptising themselves?
No it is one of the appointed works of the faithful servants of God.Acts 19
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2008,15:04) Nick…….So now you are saying the apostles were not baptized with water I find that hard to believe. So they were baptizing but they were not that would kind of make them Hypocrites then would it not. Of course i totally disagree with you, and if you read Act 9:18 you will see the apostle Paul was indeed baptized.
Common sense would have told you that, but the reason you said that had nothing to do with scripture or common sense, Just a reason to disagree.IMO……..gene
Hi GB,
Can you show me where is is written that they were?
We should not assume.Mandy …..let no one deceive you with vain arguments . without Spiritual baptism of Holy Spirit there will be (NO) change in your or anyone else's life at all. It takes the Spiritual mind of God to cause change and with out that a person only has the Carnal mind and that mind is a enemy of God and is not subject to the laws of God (NEITHER) CAN BE. I don't care if the person is baptized in water a thousand time it won't change Him. Peter said the Israelites were baptized under the cloud, and when they went through the red sea did that change them (NO) John said I indeed baptize with water (BUT) He who comes after me Will Baptist you with Spirit and Fire, a completely different baptism. One is symbolic the other saves you and changes you. Stop and ask yourself if water Baptism would save you why have another one then
Just plain common sense.. Water baptism never changed anyone, but Spiritual baptism did and does. In my opinion.peace to you and your………gene
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