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Kerwin……sorry for the problem, sometimes wheni am writing i touch the captical key by mistake, i will slow down and try to keep from doing that unless i am inphasing a paticular point brother.
Kerwin i think you may be hung up on the meaning of the word GRACE it simply means (unmarited pardon) is what i was taught. We did not earn our pardon by our performance before GOD. JESUS obtained it for us by way of “payment”.
Its unfortunate where it says we have passed from judgement into life, was mistranslated, it should read we pave passed from “condemnation” to life. Judgements are not done away with, we must all stand before the judgement sit of christ and give an account of what we have done in the flesh. But even if we sin we have an advocate with the FATHER Jesus Christ he is the propituation for our sins ,and notonly ours but , JOHN tells for the whole world.
Eph 1-11… Blessed be the GOD and Father of our lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in the heavenly places in Christ. 4, According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5, having predestined us unto adoption of childern by Jesus Christ, to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL , 6, to the praise of HIS GRACE. wherein he has made us accepted in the beloved. 7, In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the richness of HIS GRACE; 8, Wherein he has abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;9, Having made known unto us the mystery of HIS WILL, according to HIS GOOD PLEASURE, which he has purposed in himself. 10, That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11, In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him (GOD), who works all things after the council of his OWN WILL.
There it is in a nutshell brother, IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene.
and I am not sure what the discernment of spirits is.
Hi Kerwin,
It’s obvious that you don’t know what that is.
Gene,
Thank you for your effort on my behalf.
This is the short and regular definition of the transliteration of the Koine word charis translated to grace in Ephesians 2:8.
Short Definition: grace, favor, kindness
Definition: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.It is by favor of God that those that follow the gospel are rescued from their being dead in their trespasses and made alive in Christ.
If a true believer boasted that she was saved because she hungered and thirsted for righteousness then she would be telling the truth but nevertheless God created he to hunger and thirst for righteousness and so without God’s grace she would not hunger and thirst for righteousness and so not be who she is. A fully mature Christian would not make such a boast as he or she would know that are what they are because God created them.
Giving believers the Spirit and teaching them to live by it is another grace of God. Ephesians 2:8 is referring to that grace or one related to it.
Kerwin…….Rom 3:22-24….”This rightiousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of theglory of God, and are justified “freely” by his grace (unmerited pardon) through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus”.
Eph 1:7….”In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace”
Eph 2:8-10…”For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith- and this is not from yourselves, it is a gift of God-not of works, so no one can boast. For we are God’s handwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
John 1:17….”for the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ”
Rom 5:17…..”For if, by the traspass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who recieve GOD’S abundant provision of grace and the gift of rightiousnes reign in life through that one man, Jesus Christ!”
In the New Testement, “grace”(156 times) takes on a special redemptive sense in which GOD makes available his favor on behalf of sinners, who actually do not deserve it, hence, (Unmerited pardon). That is not saying though, that we have a license to sin.
Sins must be paid for, or how could the justice of God function?, now God’s rightious judjements are carried out against sin, by the shedding of blood, JESUS paid that judgement that was against us because of our sins, Through his sacrifice we have access to GOD THE FATHER, our sins no longer seperate us from God having been paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Pierre:
All believers should be baptized in water when they have believed with a repentant heart. That is what I have shown you by the scriptures. Water baptism is not for Jews only which is what you were trying to imply.
Gene,
Grace does not mean unmerited pardon as I already pointed out to you. It simply means favor or kindness. The “unmerited pardon” is a theological hypothesis.
Jesus promised “blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled” so is Jesus a liar or do those that hunger and thirst for righteousness merit being filled?
He also promised “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.” The same basic question applies to it.
Can a believer boast about hungering and thirsting for righteousness because he chose to do so or because he is what he is by the grace of God?
Kerwin……. Certainly it’s a thegolical hypotheses because underserved kindness or favor brought about by someone else is “unmerited” by the person recieving it. believer hungering and thirsting for “rightiousness” ? Where is that found. You seem to be viewing this on a purely human effort. If that were possible the why would JESUS SAY “NO MAN” can come unto me except the Father draw him.
Kerwin why are you trying to deal Jesus out of the picture, when it comes to the grace of GOD, DON’T you believe that Jesus’ death on the cross or stake accounts for some thing in the plan and will of God. Do you disagree with the scriptures i havequotes that show this clearly?
One question I would like you to answer, who do you atribute your salvation to? Was it yourself or GOD THROUGH the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Have your sins been forgiven you, because of him or not?
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
Gene,
That promise and a few others of Jesus are found in the B-attitudes.
Elsewhere Jesus teaches us “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil” (John 3:19).
One again he teaches of merit but of those that merit destruction.
Marty
Pierre:
All believers should be baptized in water when they have believed with a repentant heart. That is what I have shown you by the scriptures. Water baptism is not for Jews only which is what you were trying to imply.
if they want to be yes,but the question remains in what church for all have their own believe of what is written in scriptures ,for gentiles i am very surprised that
in;act
Ac 15:1 Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
Ac 15:2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
Ac 15:3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the brothers very glad.
Ac 15:4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
Ac 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.”
Ac 15:6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
Ac 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
Ac 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
Ac 15:9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
Ac 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
Ac 15:11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
Ac 15:12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
Ac 15:13 When they finished, James spoke up: “Brothers, listen to me.
Ac 15:14 Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself.
Ac 15:15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
Ac 15:16 “ ‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
Ac 15:17 that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’
Ac 15:18 that have been known for ages.
Ac 15:19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
Ac 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
Ac 15:21 For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”it talks here about being saved and its requirement right ? yes
the apostles seem concerned about the gentiles turning to God and having some of the Jews bring in the law or circumcision to be saved ,
and what we see in the recommendations ?absolutely nothing of water baptism to be saved by ,why is that ?
Cornelius was accepted by God water baptism or not ,it is after all God that make the decision not men ,God judge the heart no man can do this ,
also’Heb 11:2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
Heb 11:9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise.
Heb 11:10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.God love those that truly seek him ,nothing about baptism to proof your faith or being saved ,
Heb 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,
“Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.”
Heb 13:6 So we say with confidence,
“The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid.
What can man do to me?”
Heb 13:7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Heb 13:9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them.
Heb 13:10 We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.
Heb 13:11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp.
Heb 13:12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.
Heb 13:13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.
Heb 13:14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.
Heb 13:15 Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name.
Heb 13:16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.again no baptism mention only the change of lifestyle make it according to God
Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created
to be born again is through the truth of God’s word not through water dip ;religions love this for they claim the baptized members of their own church
Kerwin……You still did not answer tbe question brother, are you saved by the flesh and blood sacrifice of Jesus the Christ or not, does God bse yoyr aquitle on JESUS ALONE OR NOT?
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Terricca……I agree with much of what you said in you last post, but my point would be, why go against what the apostles instructing us to do? Did they not tell us to be baptized in the name of JESUS? , AND IF SO, WHY NOT DO IT BROTHER? People have been told to do things that did not actually itself heal them, it was the spirit of GOD THAT DID, BUT THEY STILL WERE TOLD TO DO IT RIGHT? HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT IT IS SIMPLY A TEST OF ONES FAITHFULL OBEDIENCE? How can you go against what we were instructed to do? Did Jesus tell them not to baptize with water?
Peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Gene,
Kerwin……You still did not answer tbe question brother, are you saved by the flesh and blood sacrifice of Jesus the Christ or not, does God bse yoyr aquitle on JESUS ALONE OR NOT?
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Do you want a part truth or the whole truth?
Those Christians who walk by the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Those Christians who walk according to the Spirit will inherit the kingdom of heaven.Jesus choice to sacrifice himself revealed that this world of sin is unjust as it condemns those that would never die in a just world. He sealed the new contract between God and his people with his blood. That contract is empowered by the same Spirit which raised him from the dead. He mediates it from heaven.
The righteousness from God through faith Jesus Christ is that the Spirit is received by faith and lived according to by faith.
Those that have not heard, understood, or had a chance to obey all Jesus’ teachings are saved from damnation only together with those Christians that walk according to the Spirit.
Abraham’s faith is imputed to him as righteousness. If he was not imputed with righteousness there would be no salvation from damnation possible.
If Jesus never chose to sacrifice himself then Abraham would never be saved from damnation. If Jesus had not raised from the dead the day of destruction would await Abraham. If Jesus had not ascended to heaven in order to mediate the new covenant Abraham would be destroyed body and soul.
Abraham did have righteousness imputed to him and Jesus sacrificed himself, was resurrected and ascended to heaven. As a result Abraham’ name is written in the book of Life.
Gene
being emerged in Christ means to learn all about him and so follow his truth that he received from his father and ours and his God and our God ,
Mt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”this section of Matt;28;19 does not seem to be scriptural at all ;baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
for the holy spirit has no name ;and not one apostle has done this ;nor is it found in any other parts of the scriptures ,so when you remove this then you understand the truth of what the disciples had to do AND RIGHTFULLY DID
Terricca…….SO DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE DECIPLES DID NOT BAPTIZE, NOR TEACH BAPTIZM?
peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Gene
Paul baptized a few ,some other a few ,I see that those that where baptized in water request it ,I am not against baptism I am against its use ,
I have presented many scriptures but no one came forth and prove to me that baptism was a premium requirement to be either saved of become a believer ,
and that is the point i want to make ; we all know from scriptures that baptism was established for the jews not for gentiles
what was the difference between the teachings of John the baptist and of Jesus Christ ? do you know
Miia……I think Terricca is taking about what actually changes us, and saying it’s not the baptzm of the water, but the baptizm of the spirit, which i do agree with because JOHN SAID I DO BAPTIZE WITH WATER, BUT THE ONE WHO COMES AFTER ME WILL BAPTIZE WITH SPIRIT AND FIRE (intense judgement) . So i kind of do see his point, I believe we should be baptized as instructed by the apostles. I believe that baptizm is an open OR public profession of our faith in THE SACRIFICE OF JESUS. I don’t think Terricca is against baptizm at all. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
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