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Hi Berean
You said:
A point where I agree with you IS THAT YES JESUS ON THE THIRD DAY OR THE FOLLOWING DAY WENT TO THE FATHER.
Great! I believe that the ascension to the Father in the active sense by the Son was in-between when Jesus had risen and appeared to Mary and meeting with the men on the road to Emmaus. I believe that because Psalms 2 says that the day that the Father had begotten Him (from the grave) the Father said to ask Him for the nations, etc. Then the evening of the same day, Jesus told the disciples that He was given all authority in heaven and on earth, as I understand it.
You asked;
Now tell me why there would be a difference between the ascent on the third day and the ascent after the 40 days. I’m talking in terms of passive or active elevation mode…?
I believe that the ascension just after speaking to Mary on the first day of the week, the day He had risen, was in the active voice to connect what Jesus said that about raising up “this temple” on the third day meaning His body, also in the active tense. It may also have to do with the command that He was given to lay down His life as well as given the power to take it up again, both in the active sense.
Btw, I am happy to help you guys with the Greek, I’m glad you appreciate it.
LU
Hi Lu,
You: The Son of Man IS Jesus who before He became Jesus, the Son of Man (aka Son of David) was the only begotten Son of God, begotten before the ages, who was anointed to become flesh and suffer on the cross as the promised Messiah to take away our sins and then inherit the nations.
Me: Funny again, you mentioned Jesus’ death alright, but never mentioned His resurrection in relation to what you believe.
Now the most vital task by Jesus, for the human race as such, was not only His death, that was VITAL also for God the Father, as the Father could in no way become human and die in order to establish HIMSELF THE ONLY TRUE GOD ON THIS TANGIBLE EARTH. Thus the most vital task by Jesus THE SON OF MAN on earth for the sake of humanity where truth is only justified also in a tangible way, was when He resurrected and established the entire human race all authentic in Him purified by His own blood. Well clear in
1Corinthians 15: 17And if Christ be not risen again, your faith is vain,
FOR YOU ARE YET IN YOUR SINS.
NOW IN ORDER FOR THE SON OF MAN TO RESURRECT, HE MUST DIE FIRST, AND THROUGH DEATH ITSELF IMMEDIATELY
HE ESTABLISHED THE TRUTH REGARDING
THE ONLY TRUE GOD ON EARTH, PRECISELY
IN HIMSELF,
BOTH GOD AND MAN, BY WHICH TASK
HE DREW ALL THINGS TO HIMSELF. Asserted hereunder:
John12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL THINGS TO MYSELF.
Well, ISN’T “ALL THINGS TO MYSELF” equivalent to
JESUS INHERITED ALL THINGS? Hebrews 1:2
Now read hereunder:
John17:1 THESE things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: Father,
THE HOUR IS COME, glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.
In the above Jesus, made it clear that IN THAT PARTICULAR HOUR, obvious of the cross, both He, Jesus, THE SON OF MAN you referred to, “THE WORD” made flesh, JESUS’HUMAN NATURE, and God the Father, through the Holy Ghost, Jesus, THE SON OF GOD, JESUS’ DIVINE NATURE WERE GLORIFIED!
Now have you got an idea what this DOUBLE glorification WAS by any chance?
Tell us something, please!
Now THE SON OF MAN who died on the cross was PERFECT and IN ONE INSTANT, He was both DEAD and in full GLORY as
THE ONLY TRUE GOD ON EARTH!
On the other hand, the SON OF MAN who resurrected was NOT PERFECT AS ONLY GOD IS PERFECT, WHY you might ask.
THE SON OF MAN WHO RESURRECTED, though the same body, in a particular mysterious way SINCE HE WAS DEAD, SPIRITUALLY WAS NOT THE ONE WHO GLORIFIED AS
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN ON THE CROSS AS SUCH!
THE SON OF MAN, who resurrected was purposely allocated by God, sacrificed, and then given to humanity after He died and fulfilled God’s task on the cross and established the TRUTH regarding the only true God. Well clear in
Luke 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying:
This is my body, which is given to you.
Do this for a commemoration of me.
Jesus simply gave His dead body to humanity on His resurrection, by which task He established the entire human race all authentic in Him, THE SECOND ADAM, but that same evening at 6.00, this Son of Man integrated with
the Son of Man WHO glorified on the cross as explained above as
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN
AND THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE BECAME CHILDREN OF GOD IN
JESUS CHRIST IN ONE SAME BLOOD.
AND HE PRESENTED US TO GOD THE FATHER
ALL PERFECT IN HIS BODY.
NOW REGARDING YOUR QUESTION:
THE SON OF MAN WHO DIED ON THE CROSS , DEFINITELY IMMEDIATELY THROUGH DEATH WAS
GLORIFIED WITH THE HOLY GHOST AND IN FULL AUTHORITY OVER ALL AS
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN
ON THE OTHER HAND THE SON OF MAN WHO RESURRECTED WAS NOT YET PERFECT, AND HE ACHIEVED PERFECTION ONCE HE INTEGRATED WITH
THE HOLY GHOST IN THE GLORY OF
JESUS CHRIST
GOD OF ALL FLESH
WHERE HE RULED SPIRITUALLY ON EARTH FOR FORTY DAYS AS THE SOLE SOVEREIGN SPIRIT IN ALL SOULS, IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE PURIFIED BY HIS OWN BLOOD.
Pinpointed by Jesus on the cross when He said
Father forgive them as they don’t know what they do.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel,
Jesus rose on the third day. Jesus was always perfect. Jesus is not the Father. Jesus did not inherit the nations until he returned to the Father on the the day Psalms 2 refers to, the day of his resurrection.
Hi Lu,
You: Jesus rose on the third day.
Me: Now read the scriptures hereunder please:
Mark 9:31 And he taught his disciple, and said to them: The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed,
he shall rise again the third day.
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights:
so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
AS YOU CAN READ ABOVE, A SON OF MAN ROSE ON THE THIRD DAY, WHILE ANOTHER SON OF MAN REMAINED THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH/HELL!
Answer please:
IS THE SON OF MAN MENTIONED IN MARK THE SAME SON OF MAN MENTIONED IN MATTHEW?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Lu,
You: Jesus was always perfect.
Me: Read Lu what I posted please:
Now THE SON OF MAN who died on the cross was PERFECT and IN ONE INSTANT, He was both DEAD and in full GLORY as
THE ONLY TRUE GOD ON EARTH!
On the other hand, THE SON OF MAN who resurrected was NOT PERFECT AS ONLY GOD IS PERFECT,
I NEVER SAID THAT JESUS IS NOT PERFECT!
Now read the scriptures hereunder please:
Mark 9:31 And he taught his disciple, and said to them: The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed,
he shall rise again the third day.
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights:
so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
AS YOU CAN READ ABOVE, A SON OF MAN ROSE ON THE THIRD DAY, WHILE ANOTHER SON OF MAN REMAINED THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH/HELL!
Answer please:
IS THE SON OF MAN MENTIONED IN MARK THE SAME SON OF MAN THAT IS MENTIONED IN MATTHEW?
IF NOT;
WHICH SON OF MAN IS THE PERFECT JESUS FOR YOU
Peace and Love in Jesus Christ
Hi Lu,
You: Jesus is not the Father.
Me: WHERE DID I EVER SAY THAT PLEASE?
But to make you sure of WHAT I BELIEVE, read please:
JESUS IS OUR FATHER AND GOD FROM THE HUMAN SIDE POINT OF VIEW AS MUCH AS GOD THE FATHER IS OUR FATHER FROM THE SPIRIT SIDE POINT OF VIEW. NO?
GOD, THE FATHER IS SPIRIT!
GOD, THE SON IS BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH!
Confirmed hereunder:
John 17:10 And all my things are thine, (HUMAN THINGS)
and thine are mine; (SPIRITUAL DIVINE THINGS)
and I am glorified in THEM. ( BOTH SPIRITUAL DIVINE and HUMAN)
And in:
John20:17 Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to
MY FATHER.
The above scripture CONFIRMS THAT JESUS THE SON OF MAN WAS NOT YET PERFECT SINCE
HE WAS NOT YET ASCENDED TO THE GLORY OF HIS FATHER.
But go to my brethren, and say to them: I ascend to my Father and to your Father,
THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE CONFIRMS THAT JESUS, AT 6.00 JEWISH TIME, OF THAT SAME EVENING, ASCENDED TO THE GLORY OF OUR FATHER, HUMAN, AND TO THE GLORY OF HIS FATHER, SPIRITUAL.
to my God and your God.
IN THE ABOVE JESUS ASSERTED THAT HE ASCENDED ALSO TO THE GLORY OF HIS GOD SPIRITUALLY, AND TO OUR GOD PHYSICALLY.
IN ONE INSTANT!
Confirmed hereunder:
Luke 24:36 Now whilst they were speaking these things, Jesus stood in the midst of them, and saith to them: Peace be to you; it is I, fear not. 37But they being troubled and frightened, supposed that they saw a spirit. 38And he said to them: Why are you troubled, and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see:
for a spirit (AN ORDINARY SPIRIT) hath not flesh and bones,
AS YOU SEE ME TO HAVE.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Lu,
<span style=”color: #0000ff;”>You: Jesus did not inherit the nations until he returned to the Father </span>
<span style=”color: #0000ff;”>on the the day Psalms 2 refers to, the day of his resurrection.</span>
Me: THAT’S ONLY YOUR UNDERSTANDING! WITH EVERY RESPECT!
Psalm 2 DOES NOT REFER TO JESUS’INHEIRTANCE ON HIS RESURRECTION.
JESUS WAS BEGOTTEN BEFORE CREATION IN THE VERY BEGINNING! John1:1
JESUS, SCRIPTURAL, LEFT THIS WORLD AFTER FORTY DAYS!
NOT THE DAY OF HIS RESURRECTION!
ON THE DAY OF HIS RESURRECTION
HE WAS ONLY THE SON OF MAN NOT YET PERFECT! TO BE CLEAR
JESUS’ DEAD BODY RESURRECTED EMBODIED WITH THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE
ALL IN HIM, AS THE SECOND ADAM!
The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”
ALL SINNERS!
IN THE RESURRECTED JESUS, THE SON OF MAN
ALL PURIFIED WITH JESUS’OWN BLOOD! NOT PERFECT! ONLY GOD IS PERFECT.
ALSO AS THE SECOND ADAM!
ADAM WAS NOT PERFECT,
BUT ON THE ROAD TO PERFECTION ACCORDING TO HIS FREE WILL!
ALSO, ADAM, AFTER HE WAS FORMED FROM THE EARTH, RECEIVED THE SPIRIT BY THE BREATH OF GOD.
JESUS, AS THE SECOND ADAM ALSO AFTER HE CAME BACK TO LIFE FROM THE EARTH INTEGRATED WITH THE HOLY GHOST IN THE GLORY OF JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN ON THE CROSS!
AND THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE BECAME
CHILDREN OF GOD IN JESUS CHRIST. AND
HE, THE SECOND ADAM, THE LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT, IN HIS BODY,
PRESENTED US HOLY AND PERFECT TO THE FATHER!
<span style=”color: #ff0000;”>1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be “THE” God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4Unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that can not fade, reserved in heaven for you,</span>
In the above by the word “DEAD” it is meant to be “SPIRITUALLY DEAD” through Adam’s sin, by which “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man was slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world.Rev.13:8 BUT ALIVE ON JESUS’DEAT!
Well clear by Jesus’ own words:
INTO YOUR HAND I COMMEND MY SPIRIT.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Proclaimer, Jesus isn’t a prototype son, He is an example as a son but not the same type as us
But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.
He came in the flesh to have a body like ours. Now he is glorified and we who believe will have a body like his glorious body. He is the Son and we are sons. He calls us brothers, so we are or will be the same kind.
In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. He says: “I will proclaim Your name to My brothers; I will sing Your praises in the assembly.”…
Jesus is not God, he is His Son. We are not God, we are his sons. Jesus calls us brothers / brethren. But God is the Father to Jesus and to us. This is the truth. Fighting the truth usually doesn’t end well. Until you accept the truth.
Proclaimer, exactly right, but those who try to make Jesus appear different then we are, in our relationship to him, and God the Father , like trinitarians and others are teaching , by their “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION”, they are the servants and ministers of Satan himself, there are many out there, only a few, are teaching the “true word of God “and the words of Jesus. “OUR BROTHER” and King. the whole world of “so called ” “christianity” has been decieved , by that evil one, and his ministers. And for that reason , we are to tell then that “God the Father is against them”. And unless they repent they will not be accepted by Jesus Christ or God the Father either?
This is the message that need to be sent out into all the world,
Peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer……..gene
To all
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with (thé)God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
[8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
[9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
[16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
[18] No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Amen !
carmel,
You asked:
AS YOU CAN READ ABOVE, A SON OF MAN ROSE ON THE THIRD DAY, WHILE ANOTHER SON OF MAN REMAINED THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH/HELL!
Answer please:
IS THE SON OF MAN MENTIONED IN MARK THE SAME SON OF MAN MENTIONED IN MATTHEW?
It is the same person.
Procleimer,
You said:
Jesus is not God, he is His Son. We are not God, we are his sons.
Believers will have the relationship as a son to God the Father as Jesus does, I agree. Believers will have a glorious body like Jesus’ glorious body, I agree. However, believers do not become sons in the same way that Jesus originally became a son, therefore, Jesus is not the prototype of others since Jesus became a son in a different manner than any other son.
Can you admit that Jesus became a son in a different manner than any other sons of God?
carmel,
You said:
JESUS, SCRIPTURAL, LEFT THIS WORLD AFTER FORTY DAYS!
Jesus went to the Father in heaven on the third day and came back that day. After forty days, He went to heaven and stayed.
This is clear in John 20
…16Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”). 17“Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’” 18Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what He had said to her.…
The words “I am ascending….” are written in the present tense and spoken on the third day. Those words are not written in the future tense.
Hi LU
Lightenup wrote:
Berean,
You asked:
AS YOU CAN READ ABOVE, A SON OF MAN ROSE ON THE THIRD DAY, WHILE ANOTHER SON OF MAN REMAINED THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH/HELL!
Answer please:
IS THE SON OF MAN MENTIONED IN MARK THE SAME SON OF MAN MENTIONED IN MATTHEW?
It is the same person.
Me
I don’t think I asked you such a question.
If yes . Three days, three nights is equivalent with “third day” Jesus did not stay in the sepulcher 3X24 hours, but counts as if he did. (for Jews).🙏
Hi Lu,
You: It is the same person.
Me: Lu, I asked you and I used the term:
“THE SON OF MAN”, WHICH IS A TITLE NOT A PERSON.
JESUS AS A PERSON HAD TWO NATURES, FULLY HUMAN and FULLY DIVINE, a hypostatic union. to be clear:
JESUS, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, AS THE SON OF MAN, A HUMAN BEING, POSSESSED A BODY ATTRIBUTED TO GOD, HEAVENLY, and A BODY ATTRIBUTED TO THE HUMAN RACE EARTHLY. TWO DISTINCT IN ONE BODY.
SO I REPEAT WITH MORE CLARITY:
Mark 9:31 And he taught his disciple, and said to them: The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed,
he shall rise again the third day.
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights:
so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
Answer please:
IS THE SON OF MAN, THE HUMAN NATURE OF JESUS MENTIONED IN MARK THE SAME SON OF MAN, THE HUMAN NATURE OF JESUS, MENTIONED IN MATTHEW?
Also, IN RELATION TO YOUR PERSONHOOD UNDERSTANDING, explain please, HOW ONE SON OF MAN/ HUMAN BEING, A PERSON, WAS IN HELL, WHILE THE SAME SON OF MAN/HUMAN BEING, A PERSON WAS DEAD IN HIS TOMB!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Lu,
You: Jesus went to the Father in heaven on the third day and came back that day.
Me: THERE IS NO CLEAR SCRIPTURE WHICH SUPPORTS YOU BELIEF I’M AFRAID.
After forty days, He went to heaven and stayed.
This is clear in John 20
…16Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”). 17“Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’” 18Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what He had said to her.…
The words “I am ascending….” are written in the present tense and spoken on the third day. Those words are not written in the future tense.
Lu, I am NOT AT ALL preoccupied with the tense as such, but regarding the TRUE meaning of the word ASCEND in respect of its context.
The TRUE MEANING of the word ascend in that context, especially in respect of
the glorification process of
THE SON OF MAN, at that moment THE SECOND ADAM, IN RELATION TO HIM BECOMING
A LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT.
JESUS FOR THE FIRST-EVER TIME, resurrected AS AN AUTHENTIC HUMAN BEING FROM THE EARTH. to be clear
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE ALL AUTHENTICALLY EMBODIED IN THE SON OF MAN, THE SECOND ADAM, IN THE SAME WAY, THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE FROM THE EARTH, WAS ALL FORMED AND EMBODIED IN THE FIRST ADAM.
THE PURE FACT THAT JESUS BY HIS OWN MOUTH, THE ONLY TIME HE CALLED US HIS BRETHREN PRECISELY AFTER HIS RESURRECTION TO MARY MAGDALENE.
Now when we read Genesis 2:7 God formed man out of the earth and then
THROUGH HIS BREATH GAVE HIM HIS SPIRIT AND MAN BECAME “A LIVING SOUL” THUS MAN ASCENDED TO A HIGHER STATE.
JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, LIKEWISE AFTER HIS RESURRECTION OUT FROM THE EARTH, ALSO ASCENDED TO A HIGHER STATE,
THAT SAME EVENING AT 6 JEWISH TIME SUNDAY/MONDAY. John 20:19
THE BEGINNING OF THE NEW CREATION. WHEN JESUS THE SON OF MAN RECEIVED AND INTEGRATED WITH
THE HOLY GHOST IN THE GLORY OF JESUS’BODY, THE SON OF MAN
GODMAN ON THE CROSS, AND VICE VERSA John13:31,32
AND BECAME ONE SUBSTANCE IN
JESUS CHRIST
WHICH MEANS THAT:
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE ALL AUTHENTIC IN THE SON OF MAN, BECAME
CHILDREN OF GOD IN JESUS CHRIST.
THEN HE PRESENTED HUMANITY TO THE FATHER ALL PERFECT IN HIMSELF!
THE PURE FACT THAT HE NEVER ASCENDED TO HEAVEN THAT SAME DAY!
Lu, the word ASCEND IN THAT CONTEXT is a clear reference to
THE SON OF MAN ascending to the higher state of divinity, not THAT HE WENT to the Father in heaven.
You: The words “I am ascending….” are written in the present tense and spoken on the third day. Those words are not written in the future tense.
I am ASCENDING = present progressive.
“I am ASCENDING is the present continuous tense, and it means that
JESUS WAS IN HIS ASCENDING STATE AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME HE WAS TALKING TO MARY, WHICH HE WASN’T
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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