- This topic has 135 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 9 months ago by
.
- Posts
Gene,
I choose to make Jesus Lord of my life or not, no one can force me. My God is much bigger than a god that forces his will on others.
Hi LU
There is a word for every divine action
John 2:19 (RESURRECTION)
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
👇
RAISE UP
1453
egeirw
egeiro
eg-i’-roprobably akin to the base of agora – agora 58 (through the idea of collecting one’s faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), ie rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying, from disease, from death; or figuratively, from obscurity, inactivity, ruins, nonexistence):–awake, lift (up), raise (again, up), rear up, (a-)rise (again, up), stand, take up.
☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️
Ephesians 4:8-10 (ASCENSION)
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
[10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)ASCEND UP
305
anabaino
an-ab-ah’-ee-nofrom ana -ana 303 and the base of basiV -basis 939 ; to go up (literally or figuratively):–arise, ascend (up), climb (go, grow, rise, spring) up, come (up).
Berean,
You forgot this
RESURRECTION
Strong’s #386 anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising.
and this one:
RAISE UP
Strong’s #450 anistémi: to raise up, to rise
Jesus raised up His “temple” on the third day by ascending to the Father.
Both words you listed and the two here can mean rise/raise up.
God raised Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit, from the dead and showed Him to Mary. Then Jesus ascended (raised up “this temple,” His body after speaking to Mary in the garden).
LU
In the case of Jesus “Resurrection” means physically passing from death to life.
And “ascension” to “rise” from earth to HEAVEN.And for us: to pass from spiritual death to spiritual life in order to be able to rise (ascension) to heaven towards the Father with Jesus.
👇
Psalm 24:3
Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
[4] He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
[5] He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
[6] This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek your face, O Jacob. Selah.Hi Lu,
You: Jesus laid down His life for His sheep starting with the agreement to empty Himself and become a bondservant.
Me: Agree!
He took it up again when He ascended back to His Father and received all authority in heaven and on earth.
Not precise, I’m afraid!
Jesus received all authority on earth BEFORE GOING TO THE FATHER. HE LEFT EARTH AND WENT TO THE FATHER IN FULL GLORY! Read the scriptures hereunder.
John 17:4 I HAVE GLORIFIED THEE ON EARTH; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
ATTENTION PLEASE LU: Read the next verse by Jesus:
5 And now glorify thou me,
In the above Jesus with the word “NOW” simply confirmed that as Jesus glorified the Father ON EARTH,
the Father also glorified Jesus ON EARTH, before he left earth, in the same glory Jesus had with the Father before the world was.
Jesus, as you said, emptied Himself, and SUPPORTED BY GOD, did His entire PROCESS of creation, redemption, and glorification for the love of God the Father and His creatures, ORIGINALLY HIDDEN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, REVEALED IT, PERFECTED THE ENTIRE PROCESS ON EARTH, AND TOOK IT BACK TO THE FATHER GLORIFIED AND PERFECTED IN HIS BODY. ALL/IN BY HIM!
Now to:
John13:3 Knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands, and that he came from God, and goeth to God;
As you can read Jesus was given ALL POWER INTO HIS HANDS BY THE FATHER EVEN BEFORE HIS PASSION. Now read hereunder please:
John19:26 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. 27After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.
In the above Jesus confirmed His FULL AUTHORITY, AS GODMAN. He called His mother WOMAN, and established his mother as THE MOTHER OF ALL SOULS,
Jesus went back to the Father in FULL GLORY AND AUTHORITY!
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying:
ALL POWER IS GIVEN TO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH.
His ascension to the Father on day three after He was talking to Mary is the part of the resurrection that Jesus did by His own power. Does that help?
MORE TO COME REGARDING THE ABOVE!
In the meantime Ponder on these scriptures hereunder please:
John 6:39Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing;
but should raise it up again in the last day.
40And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting,
and I will raise him up in the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him;
and I will raise him up in the last day.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel,
Psalms 2 tells us that it is after the Son returns to the Father at the ascension when He inherits the nations and makes it clear that the Son did not already have them until then.
Psalms 2:7
“I will declare the [g]decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9You shall [h]break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”Read Acts 3:33 for confirmation.
32“And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, 33that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.’ 34“As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.’ 35“Therefore He also says in another Psalm, ‘YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.’ 36“For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay; 37but He whom God raised did not undergo decay.
Hi Berean,
You said:
In the case of Jesus “Resurrection” means physically passing from death to life.
And “ascension” to “rise” from earth to HEAVEN.Can you show me a verse that Jesus was resurrected before He met Mary in the garden where the verse actually has the Greek word for “resurrected” and not just “raised up?”
I believe that the raising up and the ascension were 2 parts of the complete act that happened on day three. One part the Father actively did and the other part the Son actively did.
BTW, why did you use Psalm 24:3 in your post? I don’t believe that refers to heaven. One can ascend to the top of a mountain and one can ascend to heaven.
LU
Psalm 24:3
Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?These are HEAVENLY AND NON-EARTHLY realities TO COME….
WHO SHALL ADCEND….👉 FUTUR TIME
the hill of the LORD
his holy place ARE IN HEAVEN WHERE GOD THE FATHER AND JESUS ARE.
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.More latter
To all…….Jesus said (not me)…..“the Son of man, (Jesus), can do “NOTHING” of himself” the Father who is “IN” him, “HE” DOES THE WORKS”. and again, Jesus said (not me).
“Our” , Father who art in heaven , “HOLY” be “THY” name, “THY” kingdom come, “THY” WILL be done, in earth as it is in heaven, give us this day our daily bread, and forgives us our debts, as we forgive us our debtors. And lead us not into templation, but deliever us from the evil, for “THINE ” is the Kingdom, AND the “POWER” and the GLORY, for ever. And again Jesus said (not me) ….“Father this is eternal life that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD, and Jesus Christ who “YOU” have sent. YOU simply truly believe what Jesus said, or you simple don’t believe , what he said!
SO Carmel, Berean and LU, lets be honest, do you “truly” believe what Jesus said above or not? If you say you do, then why are you constantly disagreeing with what he told us, by perverting his teachings over and over again?
Peace and love to you and yours…….gene
Hi LU
You
VOICE
Biblical Greek has three voices, active, middle, and passive:The Active Voice: This occurs when the action of the verb is being performed by the subject.
The Middle Voice: When the subject of the verb does action unto itself, or for its own benefit, the middle voice is used.
The Passive Voice: The passive represents the action of the verb being done unto the subject but not by the subject.
Me
LUK 24
[51] And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.This verse shows us that Jesus is not the author of the action to go to HEAVEN.
“he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.”
It’s the “passive voice.”
More latter
🙏
Hi Lu,
You: Psalms 2 tells us that it is after the Son returns to the Father at the ascension when He inherits the nations and makes it clear that the Son did not already have them until then.
Me: What you posted is a clear reference to Jesus, the SON OF MAN, “THE WORD” made flesh, Jesus’ human nature, who died on the cross.
Now immediately on His death, Jesus the Son of Man, JESUS’ HUMAN NATURE, SPIRITUALIZED, and integrated with the Holy Ghost, the SON OF GOD, Jesus’ divine nature, and while He, the SON OF MAN was dead on the cross, He was also glorified one substance with the Holy Ghost, the SON OF GOD.
Thus both the SON OF MAN, Jesus’ human nature, and the SON OF GOD, Jesus’ divine nature, GLORIFIED and became ONE UNIFIED
DIVINE/HUMAN BEING AS HE WAS BEFORE THE WORLD WAS, MANIFESTED ON MOUNT TABOR.
BOTH
GOD AND MAN. Well clear and asserted in
John13:31 When he therefore was gone out, Jesus said:
Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
In the above, Jesus confirmed that He became SPIRIT, and God in the Holy Ghost became FLESH.
32If God be glorified in him, God also will glorify him in himself;
In the above, Jesus confirmed that God, in the Holy Ghost, THE SON OF GOD, GLORIFIED in HIM, in the SON OF MAN, and became HUMAN, and
God, in THE HOLY GHOST also glorified the SON OF MAN IN HIMSELF and BECAME GOD.
and immediately will he glorify him.
IMMEDIATELY ON HIS DEATH!
JESUS, IMMEDIATELY ON HIS DEATH WENT TO HELL IN FULL GLORY,
IN THE MIDST OF HELL FIRE, (MOSES’ BURNING BUSH AND NOT CONSUMED!)
BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH IN ONE INSTANT!
BOTH THE SON OF GOD AND THE SON OF MAN,
BOTH GOD AND MAN IN
JESUS CHRIST!
HE PREACHED HIS GOSPEL AND FREED ALL THOSE LOCKED IN HELL FIRE SINCE ADAM’S FALL.
1 Peter 3:18 Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh,
but enlivened in the spirit,
19In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison
WHILE JESUS’BODY, THE SON OF MAN, WAS DEAD IN HIS TOMB!
NOW MANY BODIES OF THE SAINTS AROSE FROM THE DEAD PRECISELY ON JESUS’DEATH.
EVEN BEFORE JESUS WAS RESURRECTED.
Matthew 27:50 And Jesus again crying with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51And behold the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top even to the bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks were rent.
52And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose,
53And coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, came into the holy city, and appeared to many.
NOW, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, JESUS’ HUMAN NATURE ONLY,
RESURRECTED ON THE THIRD DAY!
BORN AGAIN FROM AMONG THE DEAD,
SPIRITUALLY DEAD, BOTH IN HELL AND ON EARTH.
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE ALL AUTHENTIC BROTHERS EMBODIED IN JESUS’ BODY. “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN,
BUT NOT YET PERFECT! ONLY GOD IS PERFECT.
ATTENTION PLEASE:
JESUS, AS EXPLAINED ABOVE, GLORIFIED ON THE CROSS,
BOTH GOD AND MAN IN THE HOLY GHOST AS
JESUS CHRIST, WHO PREACHED THE GOSPEL IN HELL,
AND
JESUS’ RESURRECTED BODY, THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE,
INTEGRATED AND BECAME ONE SUBSTANCE PRECISELY THAT SAME EVENING OF HIS RESURRECTION AFTER 6.00.
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.TO BE CLEAR:
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE EMBODIED IN JESUS’ BODY, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN, BECAME ONE SUBSTANCE IN
JESUS CHRIST.
ALL CHILDREN OF
OUR LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST.
Well clear in
1Peter1:Blessed be “THE” GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
SPIRITUALLY DEAD, BOTH IN HELL AND ON EARTH!
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, SPIRITUALLY DEAD FROM ADAM’S SIN, WHERE JESUS, AS A SPIRIT, ETERNAL LIFE, HIDDEN ENGRAFTED WITHIN ALL HEARTS, WAS SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. Rev.13:8 ATTENTION PLEASE
BUT CAME ALIVE ON JESUS’DEATH!
BY WHICH SPIRIT THE SAINTS ROSE FROM THE DEAD ON JESUS’DEATH.
JESUS, IN HIS GLORIFIED PERSON, PRESENTED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, HOLY AND PERFECT TO THE FATHER AFTER THOSE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORTY DAYS HE REMAINED ON EARTH, THEN SPIRITUALLY AS THE NEW PARADISE, IN FULL GLORY AS
THE SOLE SOVEREIGN RULER OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE.
Jude 1:4 For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,) ungodly men, turning the grace of our Lord God into riotousness, and denying the only sovereign Ruler, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
GOD’S KINGDOM CAME, AND GOD’S WILL WAS ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Berean,
You said:
LUK 24
[51] And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.This verse shows us that Jesus is not the author of the action to go to HEAVEN.
“he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.”
It’s the “passive voice.”
That’s great Berean, you are getting the idea of the passive and active voice. What you are missing is that ascension that you quoted refers to the final ascension 40 days after His resurrection and not the ascension on the first day of the resurrection that He speaks to Mary about. One the first day, when Jesus is speaking to Mary, Jesus said that He will ascend to the Father and He uses the active voice. Jesus does the act of ascending on that “third day” ascension.
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”
In case you want to look at the interlinear where I go to check the “voice” of verbs it is on Bible Hub. I get the most out of Bible Hub on my desk top computer instead of my mobile device but I use it on both. Below is the link to the verse in John 20:17 that shows the Greek words on the top and the English words beneath them and the grammar codes beneath the English words. If you look for the English words “I am ascending” and see beneath them the grammar codes “V-PIA-1S” it is there you will see that the word translated as “I am ascending” is a V for verb, P for present tense, I for Indicative (a statement) an A for the active voice, a#1 for the word spoken in the first person and the S for a singular person and not plural.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/20-17.htm
Nice try! If you have any questions about the Interlinear tool, just ask. I’m not a scholar but I am very familiar with it. I use it nearly every time I sit down to study the Bible.
God bless, LU
Carmel,
Are you clear that the Son of Man did not inherit the nations before His crucifixion but instead after?
Just yes or no Carmel, please don’t make it complicated.
Proclaimer,
Please address this post that was posted about 11 days ago:
Proclaimer:
You said:
If you agree that the first Adam was a prototype, then why not the final Adam?
LU: The second Adam was a life giving spirit. Is there another person that is a life giving spirit modeled after the second Adam? I don’t know of any.
Jesus is the firstborn from the dead and there are many to follow that act of being begotten from the dead. Those who follow can never be of the same type of being as the One who pre-existed his humanity. Those who follow are the same type of being as each other who did not pre-exist their humanity though. That is a big difference. We can never be the same type of being as the One who is both God natured and human natured.
The best we can do is to be like Him in our spirit, being full of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, joyfulness, and self-control, full of grace and truth, and in all humility honoring and obeying both the Father and the Son.
Proclaimer, Jesus isn’t a prototype son, He is an example as a son but not the same type as us.
Gene,
Read this:
John 8:21Then He said again to them, “I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come.” 22So the Jews were saying, “Surely He will not kill Himself, will He, since He says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” 23And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” 25So they were saying to Him, “Who are You?” Jesus said to them, “What have I been saying to you from the beginning? 26“I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world.” 27They did not realize that He had been speaking to them about the Father. 28So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. 29“And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.” 30As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him.
Jesus does nothing on His own initiative…why is that? Does He not have a clue what to do or is he too week or too impotent? No, He is perfect and can do everything the Father does. He is full of wisdom to know who to listen to and who not to listen to. Jesus listens to His Father. Smart move, who better for the Son of God to listen to and obey?
LU…….Good now tell us who God the Father listens to and obeys. No one because scripture say (not me) ….God does “all things” after the concil of his own Will. SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT, (not me)……“In whom we have obtained an inheeritance, being “PREDESTINATED”, according to the purpose of him who works “ALL THINGS” after the counsel of his “OWN WILL”.
Thats the difference between Jesus “the man” and God the Father., Jesus said (not me) ….“I always do the things that pleases the Father”, you people try to make Jesus equal to the Father as him being a God himself. You have taken the man Jesus and made him you God and you worship him as your God, 2ths 2, just as Paul said, the Apostate churches would do. , nearly all Christendom today worships, “The resurected, “man Jesus” as their God, this false teaching, Jesus will destory, at his return. By his very own mouth, just as 2ths2 says he will. , “there shall be weeping and nashing of teeth”, when those people are rejected because of their idolatorus teachings.
Peace and love to you and yours LU………gene
Hi LU
A point where I agree with you IS THAT YES JESUS ON THE THIRD DAY OR THE FOLLOWING DAY WENT TO THE FATHER.
I SAY “OR THE FOLLOWING DAY” BECAUSE ON THE THIRD DAY AFTER TALKING TO MARY JESUS TALKED WITH THE DISCIPLINES WHO WERE GOING TO EMMAUS THEN IN THE EVENING HE MEET THE 11 . BUT GOOD, IT MAY WELL BE THE THIRD DAY.Now tell me why there would be a difference between the ascent on the third day and the ascent after the 40 days. I’m talking in terms of passive or active elevation mode…?
I repeat: in LUK 24 after 40 days
it’s in passive voice[51] And it came to pass, while he wounded them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. And in Acts 1:9 also
“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”When Jesus says: “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” He’s not ascending when he talks to Marie… It’s going to happen during the day, that’s all, and there’s no text that says how it happened.
Thank you for your concern for us in learning in the biblical Greek language
🙏
Hi Lu,
You: Carmel,
Are you clear that the Son of Man did not inherit the nations before His crucifixion but instead after?
Just yes or no Carmel, please don’t make it complicated.
Me, Lu, you made me laugh!
It is you who made it complicated, by asking that kind of mysterious question.
What is the meaning of “THE SON OF MAN” for you?
Why didn’t you ask me if Jesus didn’t inherit……..
That would have been a simple CLEAR question. No?
So first and foremost we have to see if we agree regarding the definition of
THE SON OF MAN.
Go ahead and tell me, I leave it to you, then I will give you my reply accordingly.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
