In the Beginning

[2besee]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 10 2013,13:05)

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible

T,

You have been shown. Do some exploration.
Click on the word number to your left of the English on the following page:

http://biblos.com/colossians/1-16.htm

And the firstborn over all creation = from the dead.

[2besee]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 10 2013,11:59)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 10 2013,04:21) Mike, The only reason that you are trying to say that there are other gods is so that you can make John 1:1 say that God's own word was another god! They exchanged God's truth for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 2beesee, 1) Scripture uses god in a more general fashion than we are used to as it call each and every one of the children of Israel god.     a) a god is not the same type of being as God.     b) According to my limited knowledge the translation “the Word is a god” is allowed.     e) allowed does not equal true.     c) It is not a god that tabernacles in the flesh.     d) a god(messenger) did not transform into a god(human).

Kerwin, yes I agree.

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 10 2013,06:26)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 10 2013,13:05) Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible T, You have been shown. Do some exploration. Click on the word number to your left of the English on the following page: http://biblos.com/colossians/1-16.htm And the firstborn over all creation = from the dead.

2bee

Quote

the firstborn over all creation = from the dead.

do you think I lost my understanding wen someone tells me something

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

now do some thinking ;are those scriptures really saying what you are telling me

Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

so if you still believe what you told me ,you have NO UNDERSTANDING AT ALL ,WHAT HIS YOUR FAITH THEN

Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him (CHRIST). He cries out, saying, “This was he(Christ) of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he(Christ) was before me.’ ”

now if you still don't believe scriptures then show what those scriptures mean

Quote

You have been shown.

shown WHAT

[2besee]

Terrarcca,

You have been shown the wording of Colossians 1, and the gold link that I gave you allows you to look at the word meanings.

———-

Is the Lord the Spirit, T?
Is there only one Spirit, T?
Is that Spirit eternal?

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 10 2013,07:17)

Terrarcca, You have been shown the wording of Colossians 1, and the gold link that I gave you allows you to look at the word meanings. ———- Is the Lord the Spirit, T? Is there only one Spirit, T? Is that Spirit eternal?

2bee

Quote

Is the Lord the Spirit, T? Is there only one Spirit, T? Is that Spirit eternal?

first let getting things clear ; you say ;;””Is the Lord the Spirit””;;

what spirit are you talking about
and do you call an spirit
and in what scripture are you refer to

secondly ;; you say ;;”Is there only one Spirit””;;so I answer NO their are many spirits ,every human as one every spiritual being as one ,

BUT I ASSUME THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE TRUE SPIRIT OF GOD IF SO WELL HOW MANY TRUE GODS ARE THEY I ONLY KNOW ONE ,YOU

THIRD ;you say;;”Is that Spirit eternal?””;;

again what spirit are you talking about
and what scripture do you have in mind wen you ask that question

and “”ETERNAL “” what it means to you that is ,

you have shown me a religion site and it is impressive to the beginners and I guess a good starting point ,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 09 2013,15:36)

The good man is good only because Jehovah is doing his work through the man who is evil without Jehovah.

Kerwin, Jesus clearly speaks about a GOOD human being.  But also says, “ONLY God is good”.  Are you unable to understand the simple concept that if you say, “JESUS IS GOOD because……….”, the because part doesn't matter, for you are STILL saying “JESUS IS GOOD“?

And if you say “JESUS IS GOOD“, aren't you pitting scripture against scripture – since Jesus himself said, “ONLY God is good”?  

There are TWO ways to understand the words “ONLY God is good”……….

1.  Jehovah is LITERALLY the ONLY “good” person in existence, which would make Jesus “bad”.

2.  It was an EMPHATICAL statement, by which Jesus was placing his own God ABOVE himself by deferring to the even greater goodness of God than his own goodness.

Neither of these “break” scripture, but the first one does call for you to say these two things:

1.  Jesus is BAD.
2.  When Jesus spoke about good human beings, he was lying, because none of them are really good.

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 09 2013,15:36)

Yes Jesus is evil because he has a soulish nature.

And this is where your pride and misunderstanding lead you, Kerwin.  This was the “lesson” I was trying to teach Gene and Ed, ie:  You can't take Jesus' statement about only God being good LITERALLY, UNLESS you are willing to call Jesus “bad”.  I “knew” none of you would ever go as far as to call your Lord and Savior “bad”, and I would therefore be able to make my point.

Boy was I wrong!  You have not only called your Lord “bad”, but gone as far as to call him “EVIL”!  Wow Kerwin!  I have to admit I'm stumped on this one.

Does anyone else here believe our Lord Jesus Christ was “evil”?  Or is it just Kerwin?

[2besee]

T,
You know I was only speaking of one spirit.

Tell me what you think of this —  What is your understanding of it:

1Corinthians 12:1-11

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I don’t want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were unbelievers, you were enticed and led astray to worship idols that couldn’t even speak. For this reason I want you to be aware that no one who is speaking BY GOD'S SPIRIT can say, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “JESUS IS LORD,” except BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Now there are varieties of gifts, BUT THE SAME SPIRIT, and there are varieties of ministries, BUT THE SAME LORD. There are varieties of results, but it is the same God who produces all the results in everyone.

To each person has been given the ability to manifest THE SPIRIT for the common good. To one has been given a message of wisdom by THE SPIRIT; to another the ability to speak with knowledge according to THE SAME SPIRIT; to another faith by THE SAME SPIRIT; to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit; to another miraculous results; to another prophecy; to another the ability to distinguish between spirits; to another various kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages. But ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT PRODUCES ALL THESE RESULTS and gives what he wants to each person.

2Corinthians 3:12-18,

Therefore, since we have such a hope, we speak very boldly,  not like Moses, who kept covering his face with a veil to keep the people of Israel from gazing at the end of what was fading away. However, their minds were hardened, for to this day the same veil is still there when they read the old covenant. Only in union with the Messiah is that veil removed. Yet even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.  Now THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT, and where the Lord’s Spirit is, there is freedom. As all of us reflect the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, we are becoming more like him with ever-increasing glory by the Lord’s Spirit.

Quote

you have shown me a religion site and it is impressive to the beginners and I guess a good starting point ,

It is the Greek.

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,15:02)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 09 2013,15:36) Yes Jesus is evil because he has a soulish nature. And this is where your pride and misunderstanding lead you, Kerwin.  This was the “lesson” I was trying to teach Gene and Ed, ie:  You can't take Jesus' statement about only God being good LITERALLY, UNLESS you are willing to call Jesus “bad”.  I “knew” none of you would ever go as far as to call your Lord and Savior “bad”, and I would therefore be able to make my point. Boy was I wrong!  You have not only called your Lord “bad”, but gone as far as to call him “EVIL”!  Wow Kerwin!  I have to admit I'm stumped on this one. Does anyone else here believe our Lord Jesus Christ was “evil”?  Or is it just Kerwin?

Hi Mike,
I am sure that Kerwin meant that Jesus could have done wrong (sinned) but He did not. Therefore He was the only one who was perfect and God's Spirit lived in Him.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 09 2013,16:21)

Mike, The only reason that you are trying to say that there are other gods is so that you can make John 1:1 say that God's own word was another god! They exchanged God's truth for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

2B,

The FACT of the matter is that John 1:1 and 1:14 DOES speak of Jesus – and John calls him “the Word [of God]” because he is God's spokesman.

And the FACT of the matter is that Jesus IS called a god in scripture.

And the FACT of the matter is that the Bible DOES speak of MANY gods and lords, some of them in heaven, and others on earth.

I was in the process of scripturally comparing things said about “the Word” in John 1 with things said elsewhere in scripture about “Jesus”.  But you guys will never be able to accept the truth of John 1 UNTIL you grow enough to admit that there ARE many gods mentioned in the scriptures, and Jesus is one of them.

I will continue my comparisons soon.  I felt that taking a break to discuss this “many gods” issue was worth the time it will take.

Btw, your scripture about worshipping the creation is wasted on me, because I have never claimed that any should worship Jesus.  I have always argued for the opposite of that.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 09 2013,18:26)

And the firstborn over all creation = from the dead.

Actually, the Greek words “pasa ktisis” are written in the genitive form, which means the translation is “firstborn OF all creation” (or “OF every creature”).

And there is no way to come to the conclusion that this phrase equals “from the dead”. Think it out, 2B: Unless “ALL of creation” came “from the dead”, then your conclusion is flawed, and comes only from personal pre-conceived doctrines. Ie: It surely isn't what the words teach. They teach that all things came through this firstborn of all creation…….. things in heaven and things on earth…………. ALL things.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 09 2013,19:17)

Is there only one Spirit, T? Is that Spirit eternal?

Does that mean the spirit of Mikeboll64 is the same eternal Spirit of God? Am I eternal, 2B?

Is there REALLY only ONE spirit in existence? Or do we each have our own?

It truly amazes me that you guys who are trying to force scriptures to teach your own man-made doctrines are so eager to use such EMPHATICAL statements as LITERAL statements.

Please answer the questions above 2B. And then tell me if there is REALLY only ONE Spirit.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 09 2013,20:14)

Hi Mike, I am sure that Kerwin meant that Jesus could have done wrong (sinned) but He did not. Therefore He was the only one who was perfect and God's Spirit lived in Him.

Hi 2B,

Instead of explaining what Kerwin meant, why not just answer the question yourself?

Is God LITERALLY the only good person in existence, thereby making Jesus “bad”, or “evil”?  YES or NO?

Gene, I am STILL waiting for your DIRECT answer to this question.  Ie:  If you are not willing to directly tell us all that your Lord Jesus Christ is BAD, then you must admit that “only God is good” was an EMPHATICAL statement, and not a LITERAL one.

So which will it be, Gene?  Is Jesus “BAD”?  Or was Jesus speaking EMPHATICALLY, placing the goodness of his God above his own goodness?

Ed, you have said Jesus is NOT bad in a previous post.  Does that mean you understand that “only God is good” was an EMPHATICAL statement, and not meant to be taken LITERALLY?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 09 2013,01:29)

Hi Gene, Calling us “EL-o-heem's” is NOT the same as calling us gods; I thought you knew that? EL-o-heem has essentially four different meanings, while “GOD” has primarily one.

Yet the words Jehovah used in those Isaiah passages was “elohim”, Ed.

Jehovah said that besides Him, there were no elohim.

Yet now you are telling us about OTHER elohim. Hmmmm………….

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,15:59)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 09 2013,19:17) Is there only one Spirit, T? Is that Spirit eternal? Does that mean the spirit of Mikeboll64 is the same eternal Spirit of God?  Am I eternal, 2B? Is there REALLY only ONE spirit in existence?  Or do we each have our own? It truly amazes me that you guys who are trying to force scriptures to teach your own man-made doctrines are so eager to use such EMPHATICAL statements as LITERAL statements. Please answer the questions above 2B.  And then tell me if there is REALLY only ONE Spirit.

\

Mike, you know what I was talking about surely.

I will re-post what you are (possibly) avoiding.
What does this mean to you, Mike?
Please explain it in your own word.
Pay attention the the bolded parts, but read the whole.

———–

1Corinthians 12:1-11

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I don’t want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were unbelievers, you were enticed and led astray to worship idols that couldn’t even speak. For this reason I want you to be aware that no one who is speaking BY GOD'S SPIRIT can say, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “JESUS IS LORD,” except BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Now there are varieties of gifts, BUT THE SAME SPIRIT, and there are varieties of ministries, BUT THE SAME LORD. There are varieties of results, but it is the same God who produces all the results in everyone.

To each person has been given the ability to manifest THE SPIRIT for the common good. To one has been given a message of wisdom by THE SPIRIT; to another the ability to speak with knowledge according to THE SAME SPIRIT; to another faith by THE SAME SPIRIT; to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit; to another miraculous results; to another prophecy; to another the ability to distinguish between spirits; to another various kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages. But ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT PRODUCES ALL THESE RESULTS and gives what he wants to each person.

2Corinthians 3:12-18,

Therefore, since we have such a hope, we speak very boldly,  not like Moses, who kept covering his face with a veil to keep the people of Israel from gazing at the end of what was fading away. However, their minds were hardened, for to this day the same veil is still there when they read the old covenant. Only in union with the Messiah is that veil removed. Yet even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.  Now THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT, and where the Lord’s Spirit is, there is freedom. As all of us reflect the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, we are becoming more like him with ever-increasing glory by the Lord’s Spirit.

———

Please explain. To your understanding.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 09 2013,02:17)

OK Pierre, thanks, I found them. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2013,09:39) 1.  Why then is Jesus called a god in scripture? 2.  Why is Satan called “the god of this age”? 3.  Why is Jehovah the “God of gods”? 4.  Why is He the “Most High God”? 5.  Why is He the “Almighty God”? 6.  Why did Paul tell us that there are indeed many gods and lords, both in heaven and on earth? 7.  Why were angels called gods? 8.  Why were human judges called gods? 9.  In what way did Jehovah “bring judgment upon” the gods of Egypt? 10.  Who were the gods in the “assembly of gods”, which Jehovah presides over and renders judgment?  (Ps 82) 11.  Why does Jehovah Himself call Satan “the god of Ekron”? Hi Mike, 1) He isn't. 2) Because people of this age put him above YHVH. 3) JEHOVAH is “El-o-heem of EL-o-heem's”, and the translators did their best. 4) Because there is none Higher then “GOD”. 5) Because he is our protector. 6) He was speaking philosophy, drawing on expressionism's. 7) Their not 8) The were called “EL-o-heem's”, not gods. The translators did their best. 9) Not sure what you mean here, you mean temple idols? 10) You mean instead the assembly of the “EL-o-heem's”? 11) Ekron must have been pretty evil to have 'Beelzebub' as their god.

Okay Ed,

Let's take them one at a time:

1.  Is Jesus called a god in Heb 1:8-9? What does your precious AKJV say about it?

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,16:04)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 09 2013,20:14) Hi Mike, I am sure that Kerwin meant that Jesus could have done wrong (sinned) but He did not. Therefore He was the only one who was perfect and God's Spirit lived in Him. Hi 2B, Instead of explaining what Kerwin meant, why not just answer the question yourself? Is God LITERALLY the only good person in existence, thereby making Jesus “bad”, or “evil”?  YES or NO?

No. Jesus is good. I understand I think what Kerwin is saying but I also understand what you are saying.

Jesus was the only good man – the perfect man – who ever has lived.

He is the second Adam.
But He did not sin.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 09 2013,21:10)

Please explain. To your understanding.

The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.  He is not God's Holy Spirit.  He was, however, many times FILLED WITH God's Holy Spirit, right?

Now, answer my question:  Are we ALL the same eternal spirit?  Or do we each have OUR OWN spirits?

(By answering this one simple question, your point will be refuted WITHOUT me having to do a step by step exegisis of the large passage you quoted.  Answering this question will prove that there is not LITERALLY only ONE spirit in existence, thereby refuting your claim that Jesus must BE that spirit.)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 09 2013,21:13)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,16:04) Is God LITERALLY the only good person in existence, thereby making Jesus “bad”, or “evil”?  YES or NO? No. Jesus is good.

So then, “only God is good” was an EMPHATICAL statement, designed to draw attention to the fact that the goodness of Jesus cannot be compared to the goodness of the God who sent Him to atone for our sins?

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,15:53)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 09 2013,18:26) And the firstborn over all creation = from the dead. Actually, the Greek words “pasa ktisis” are written in the genitive form, which means the translation is “firstborn OF all creation” (or “OF every creature”). And there is no way to come to the conclusion that this phrase equals “from the dead”.  Think it out, 2B:  Unless “ALL of creation” came “from the dead”, then your conclusion is flawed, and comes only from personal pre-conceived doctrines.  Ie:  It surely isn't what the words teach.  They teach that all things came through this firstborn of all creation…….. things in heaven and things on earth…………. ALL things.

Mike,
My understanding of “firstborn over all of creation” is from scripture.

For example — Acts 13:26-41 — and other scripture such as Daniel chapter seven.

He is a 'new creation'.

'Therefore, if anyone is in the Messiah, he is a new creation. Old things have disappeared, and—look!—all things have become new!' 2Cor 5:17

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 10 2013,08:07)

T, You know I was only speaking of one spirit. Tell me what you think of this —  What is your understanding of it: 1Corinthians 12:1-11 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I don’t want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were unbelievers, you were enticed and led astray to worship idols that couldn’t even speak. For this reason I want you to be aware that no one who is speaking BY GOD'S SPIRIT can say, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “JESUS IS LORD,” except BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. Now there are varieties of gifts, BUT THE SAME SPIRIT, and there are varieties of ministries, BUT THE SAME LORD. There are varieties of results, but it is the same God who produces all the results in everyone. To each person has been given the ability to manifest THE SPIRIT for the common good. To one has been given a message of wisdom by THE SPIRIT; to another the ability to speak with knowledge according to THE SAME SPIRIT; to another faith by THE SAME SPIRIT; to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit; to another miraculous results; to another prophecy; to another the ability to distinguish between spirits; to another various kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages. But ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT PRODUCES ALL THESE RESULTS and gives what he wants to each person. 2Corinthians 3:12-18, Therefore, since we have such a hope, we speak very boldly,  not like Moses, who kept covering his face with a veil to keep the people of Israel from gazing at the end of what was fading away. However, their minds were hardened, for to this day the same veil is still there when they read the old covenant. Only in union with the Messiah is that veil removed. Yet even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.  Now THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT, and where the Lord’s Spirit is, there is freedom. As all of us reflect the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, we are becoming more like him with ever-increasing glory by the Lord’s Spirit. Quote you have shown me a religion site and it is impressive to the beginners and I guess a good starting point , It is the Greek.

2bee

OK.here now we talking about GODS SPIRIT what his God's spirit is it not his will yes it is because that is what he wants THAT ALL MEN COME TO REPENTANCE ;

so why is it by the holy spirit well what is the holy spirit ,it his not a being it s a tool ,it can do and make do ,but always in God's will ,and power,

this Chap;12 of 1Cor; is the following up of what transpired in Chap;1 ;here it is ;

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
1Co 1:11 My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you.
1Co 1:12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas’”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?

so we have to understand what was inside the conversation right yes,

our knowledge his the one that will make or break us ,I mean our true faith ,and sins the scriptures are the written words of God they do represent his spirit ,or ways,will,plan,ect;

so if you really believe in God and his son with the understanding of scriptures ,and we know that the holy scriptures have been written under the influence of the holy spirit ,so it is true that if you got it right you should be saying that Christ Jesus HIS LORD ,because that is exactly what the scriptures are teaching,

Quote

Now there are varieties of gifts, BUT THE SAME SPIRIT, and there are varieties of ministries, BUT THE SAME LORD. There are varieties of results, but it is the same God who produces all the results in everyone.

this scriptures just tell us that there are many things that are done but none should be done outside of the WILL OF GOD OR SPIRIT OF GOD ,OR PLAN OF GOD ECT;;;
(To each person has been given the ability to manifest THE SPIRIT for the common good.)and gives what he wants to each person.(11)

Quote

Now THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT, and where the Lord’s Spirit is, there is freedom. As all of us reflect the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, we are becoming more like him with ever-increasing glory by the Lord’s Spirit.[/i]

SO IF YOU HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE ONE THAT SAVED YOU GOD THROUGH CHRIST SACRIFICE ,THEN CHRIST HIS THAT SPIRIT (FAITH,) THAT WILL SAVE YOU,AND HAS FREE YOU FROM ALL THE WICKEDNESS OF THIS WORLD AND SO SET YOU FREE ,AND SO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY ONE WE KNOW AND MEET

AND SORRY i DO NOT READ GREEK ;BUT MIKE I SEE AS ANSWERED YOU .

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