In the Beginning

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 27 2013,15:19)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,21:56)

2bee

Their is a difference to eat and enjoy a meal ,to the fulles and share that meal with the family ,but it is a different thing to feed an army of prepared solders ,

Wen we read the scriptures we recie e food from God through his words

But totry to feed others is not the same thing ,Paul explain this ,
You need good deep understanding and a strong faith ,solid foundation

If not the house could be shaken off its foundation,

What happens to every tree that does not bear fruit.

What happened in the days of the Disciples.

Acts 2,
[41] So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

It is the Spirit that gives us the words to say.

2bee

Yes that his true but only if there is no outside influence ,

You slipped water baptism back on the table , let me ask one question

What is the difference of baptism to a Jew and later the Gentiles

Because the verse you show me they are all Jews all 3000 of them

Look how hard it was for those Jews to abandon the circumcision ,think about it a useless practice sinse Christ .

January 27, 2013 at 4:46 pm#330331

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 27 2013,03:16)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 27 2013,02:11)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 27 2013,01:53)

ED J………..True, but consider who cannonized the bible, “the Catholic Chuch” hardly a church capable of gathering and connonizing truth.

Ed j……..There are other enspiried book that were deliberately left out of our bibles you do know that right brother.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

An example of an inspired book is:
The FIRST EPISTLE of CLEMENT to the CORINTHIANS. ,
1Clement is a MUST read for all Christians. (Link)

I have been posting it slowly at that link;
I also provide a link to it online as well.

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ED J…………..I haven read that yet, maybe i will check it out brother, I have read the Book of Thomas and i do beleive it to be othenic, I think there may be a lot out there left out of our present scriptures that could help clearfy thing.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene

ED J………..I read the Epistle of Clement to the Cor.

I do believe it is indeed an inspired book.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

January 27, 2013 at 5:31 pm#330332

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 27 2013,18:40)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 27 2013,05:08)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 26 2013,19:52)

Is that a bit odd?
The earliest church accepted Hermes despite the “Adoptionist” type of Cristology.

2besee……….I also tend to believe in “adoptionist” view. because God can not Create God, in order to do that, the created God would have to have “existed for ever” as God did and so it would be impossible to bring into existence a new God , the new God would have just been created, could not have existed forever right?

I believe that the Spirit of God the Father was “IN” Jesus , just as Jesus said “IT” Was. I also believe Jesus was sent out into the World after his Baptism and receiving of the HOLY SPIRIT at the Jordan River, which made him the First begotten Son of God from mankind into the kingdom of God and all of that was through an adoption process of a man who came into existence as a born human Being. Jesus the Christ.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

Well, Gene,
That early church writing accepted that view and it was even included as canon until they took it out, so that is interesting.

I personally believe the scriptures as they are and they do tell us that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and though I have thought about it, I have not spoken or written about it much.

I think that God knows everything before it happens and God planned to save humans through recreating a man who did not have the “Adam Gene” and so He was pure, or, in a way, the SECOND ADAM because Adam also did not have a human Father.

So I see it as all a part of God's plan.

2besee……..Hope you don't get discouraged here by Pierre's accusatory spirit and comments.

Have something i found interesting in the way scripture presents it, and would like to get your input brother.

In Hebrews King David is quoted as saying this, “What is man that thou are so kind to him, for you have “made Him” a little lower the the Angels, but has crowned him with Glory and Honor, and you has placed “ALL” things under His Feet, and in that you have placed all thing under the Foot of Man there is “NOTHING” that is NOT under His feet. But we do not “yet' see “ALL” thing under his Foot , but what do we see, we see Jesus who (now notice the subtle difference here) was made a little lower then the angels (as we are) “BUT, for the tasting of death

Now He did not say that about Man but about Jesus only.

So it is my conclusion this had to be stated that way because If God would have made Man for the tasting of Death it would have been contrary to his Character to create a person to die. But when it came to Jesus that seems to be God Purpose from the start of his berth. So the wording is different then with us in Hebrews there.

In conclusion I believe God Created Man to Live for ever the way he was “originally” created and man brought death on himself, but God's “original” plan was for man to live forever just the way he was as a human being made of Flesh and blood. And had they eaten (taken to themselves) from the Tree, (that which produces) Life, they would have lived for ever Just the way they were.

I know God knows the end from the beginning so he had to know the potential was there for man to sin. But I don't think that was his intent. I used to think God intended Man to fall so we could become more like Him in experiencing good and evil, but i now am not to sure about that. Whats your thoughts on this?

Would like you in put on this brother.

peace and love to you and yours 2besee……………………gene

January 27, 2013 at 5:35 pm#330333

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,12:47)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2013,12:30)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,09:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 26 2013,16:18)

but scriptures are not saying CONCEIVED, AS IN THE REPRODUCTION OF A MAN AND A WOMEN CONCEIVING AN OFFSPRING ,THIS ONLY BELONG TO MALE AND FEMALE ,

Good point, Pierre. Perhaps Kerwin doesn't mind being “inconsistent” when he speaks of the abnormality of Jesus having a human mother, but not a human father.

What say you, Kerwin? Is it okay that this aspect of Jesus' birth is “inconsistent” with human births, as we know them?

T & Mike,

No it does not only belong to the reproduction of a male and a female. Parthenogenesis is female only conception, and occurs among living creatures to this day. It is a wonder of God that it occurred in mankind.

I happen to know about Parthenogenesis but it is not necessary to know that to know God performs miracles.

If Jesus' conception had been “consistent” with human norm it would not be the sign it is was performed to be, and neither would the line of Solomon been kept off the throne.

I told you and ask you to produce ONE EVENT THAT HAPPEN IN REAL LIVE A MEAN IN HUMAN LIVES ,

I STILL WAIT ???

You act like you do not believe that God miraculously caused a child to be conceived in Mary, by the Holy Spirit when scientists have caused human conception outside the human inner parts.

Quote

Scientists at the New York Stem Cell Foundation Laboratory have reprogrammed an adult human egg cell to an embryonic state using cloning technology and created a self-reproducing line of embryonic stem cells from the developing embryo.

Quote

An embryo is a multicellular diploid eukaryote in its earliest stage of development, from the time of first cell division until birth, hatching, or germination. In humans, it is called an embryo until about eight weeks after fertilization (i.e. ten weeks after the last menstrual period or LMP), and from then it is instead called a fetus.

My respective sources are here and here.

January 27, 2013 at 5:55 pm#330334

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2013,22:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,12:47)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2013,12:30)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,09:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 26 2013,16:18)

but scriptures are not saying CONCEIVED, AS IN THE REPRODUCTION OF A MAN AND A WOMEN CONCEIVING AN OFFSPRING ,THIS ONLY BELONG TO MALE AND FEMALE ,

Good point, Pierre. Perhaps Kerwin doesn't mind being “inconsistent” when he speaks of the abnormality of Jesus having a human mother, but not a human father.

What say you, Kerwin? Is it okay that this aspect of Jesus' birth is “inconsistent” with human births, as we know them?

T & Mike,

I happen to know about Parthenogenesis but it is not necessary to know that to know God performs miracles.

If Jesus' conception had been “consistent” with human norm it would not be the sign it is was performed to be, and neither would the line of Solomon been kept off the throne.

I told you and ask you to produce ONE EVENT THAT HAPPEN IN REAL LIVE A MEAN IN HUMAN LIVES ,

I STILL WAIT ???

You act like you do not believe that God miraculously caused a child to be conceived in Mary, by the Holy Spirit when scientists have caused human conception outside the human inner parts.

Quote

My respective sources are here and here.

Quote

You act like you do not believe that God miraculously caused a child to be conceived in Mary, by the Holy Spirit when scientists have caused human conception outside the human inner parts.

yeah I my self wander why you can not understand the birth of the son of God ,that existed from “before the ages””

but I guess this would make a hole in your believe that you could become like him ,like so many ,you like to know that Christ was a man but not answering how could he been a man if his father was no man ,???

not really make true evidence except by breaking some scriptures statement ,and so make your word trow away Gods written word,

January 27, 2013 at 7:38 pm#330344

Participant

I was conceived in my mother's inner parts.
Jesus was conceived in his mother's inner parts.
We were both conceived in our mother's inner parts.

The children of cloning are conceived outside their parent; even though they are, like Jesus, conceived of a single parent.

They are not per-existent despite the fact they were not made from the fusion of a male and female gamete.

Nicodemus asked Jesus if he was to reenter his mother's inner parts to be born again but nothing is said about Jesus entering his own mother's inner parts.

I choose to believe the Word of God, which declared Jesus was conceived in the inner parts of a virgin.

January 27, 2013 at 7:42 pm#330345

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To all………. Kerwin is right, God wanted Jesus to look a certain way, so it required him to manipulate DNA to get that exact appearance . Read how it describes his looks in Isaiah, it was important to God Jesus look exactly as he wanted him and prophecied him to look, so he had to form his DNA in Mary's womb. But be assured it was not a past existing being that was being morphed into Mary's womb or she could not have been legally or truthfully called his mother , because he would have all ready been a complete being already. Just need common sense to understand this. IMO

peace and love to you all……………………gene

January 27, 2013 at 8:04 pm#330346

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,09:30)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 26 2013,15:09)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,01:08)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 26 2013,12:18)

Who are the two examples of children of Wisdom?

Actually, it is thought that the original of Matthew 11:19 said, “Wisdom is vindicated by her DEEDS”.

It says “children” in the parallel teaching of Luke 7:35, and it is thought that later scribes changed “deeds” to “children” in Matthew, preferring the more animate “offspring” reading.

At any rate, the statement is a general one – not applying only to John and Jesus. It means that wisdom is eventually proved to be right by those who apply wisdom in their lives. Ie: Live your life according to wisdom, and good things will happen, thereby vindicating the wisdom by which you lived your life.

What point would you like to make with this scripture?

Mike,

Scripture is known to animate concepts like Wisdom.

Yep. And sometimes, “wisdom” simply means “wisdom”. What's your point?

Mike,

Actually even if certain experts are correct, Wisdom is still animated as she is performing deeds. Scripture also animates both the spirit of a man and the Spirit of God. This animation confusions some. Here is an example that has led some to believe the Spirit is a person.

John 16:7-11
New International Version (NIV)

7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Here is an example of the Spirit of God being a member of the Group one and the spirit of man being a member of the group who.

1 Corinthians 2:11
New International Version (NIV)

11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

January 27, 2013 at 8:07 pm#330347

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2013,00:38)

I was conceived in my mother's inner parts.
Jesus was conceived in his mother's inner parts.
We were both conceived in our mother's inner parts.

The children of cloning are conceived outside their parent; even though they are, like Jesus, conceived of a single parent.

They are not per-existent despite the fact they were not made from the fusion of a male and female gamete.

Nicodemus asked Jesus if he was to reenter his mother's inner parts to be born again but nothing is said about Jesus entering his own mother's inner parts.

I choose to believe the Word of God, which declared Jesus was conceived in the inner parts of a virgin.

I did not know that your conception was through the holy spirit and that your father was not men but God ,

then you are the new christ

are you also come from above ,and wen are we see you going back from were you came from ,please let me know I WANT TO BE THERE AND SEE IT WITH MY OWN EYES ,

I am a mare men I know my father and I am born through God's true process common to all humans ,

but you KERWIN ARE NOT YOU CLAIM THAT IT IS GOD THAT BROUGHT YOU FORTH HMMM,HMMM are you saying the truth ?

January 27, 2013 at 8:08 pm#330348

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,09:37)

Also Kerwin,

I await your answer about 1 John 2:1-2. Who is the son of God that was the propitiation for our sins?

Mike,

Offhand the only begotten Son can either be

a] An animation of the Holy Spirit
b] Jesus Christ[/quote]

Note: Corrected format

January 27, 2013 at 8:12 pm#330349

Participant

Quote

I choose to believe the Word of God, which declared Jesus was conceived in the inner parts of a virgin.

correction;you chose to believe what you see fit and reject anything that comes in opposition of it ,and that is not God's word
because if you would believe the written words of God you would understand it ,that what it says ,but you prefer to ignore what does not fit your personal understanding ,

January 27, 2013 at 8:26 pm#330350

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 28 2013,01:07)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2013,00:38)

I was conceived in my mother's inner parts.
Jesus was conceived in his mother's inner parts.
We were both conceived in our mother's inner parts.

The children of cloning are conceived outside their parent; even though they are, like Jesus, conceived of a single parent.

They are not per-existent despite the fact they were not made from the fusion of a male and female gamete.

Nicodemus asked Jesus if he was to reenter his mother's inner parts to be born again but nothing is said about Jesus entering his own mother's inner parts.

I choose to believe the Word of God, which declared Jesus was conceived in the inner parts of a virgin.

I did not know that your conception was through the holy spirit and that your father was not men but God ,

then you are the new christ

are you also come from above ,and wen are we see you going back from were you came from ,please let me know I WANT TO BE THERE AND SEE IT WITH MY OWN EYES ,

I am a mare men I know my father and I am born through God's true process common to all humans ,

but you KERWIN ARE NOT YOU CLAIM THAT IT IS GOD THAT BROUGHT YOU FORTH HMMM,HMMM are you saying the truth ?

All that are conceived are conceived through the Holy Spirit, just as it is written:

Job 31:15
New International Version (NIV)

15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them?
Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?

All that believe are the children of the Most High:

Deuteronomy 14:1
New International Version (NIV)

14 You are the children of the Lord your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead,

All good and perfect things come from above:

James 1:17
New International Version (NIV)

17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

January 27, 2013 at 9:10 pm#330351

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,12:51)

Quote

If Jesus' conception had been “consistent” with human norm it would not be the sign it is was performed to be, and neither would the line of Solomon been kept off the throne.

I SHOW YOU BUT YOU RUN AWAY FROM MY QUESTIONS, HOW IS THE LINE KEPT ONLY TO HIS MOTHER AND THEY EVEN CALL JOSEPH LINE “”BUT WE ALL KNOW HE HIS NOT THE FATHER “””

AND IF MARY WOULD BE A SURROGATE MOTHER IN WHAT WAY WOULD THE RESULTS CHANGE ?

I am procrastinating on doing my coursework but Scripture teaches us that Jesus was conceived in Mary, it does not teach us that he was conceived elsewhere and placed within.

I have not looked at the genealogies with this matter in mind.

January 27, 2013 at 9:13 pm#330352

Participant

Quote

All that are conceived are conceived through the Holy Spirit, just as it is written:

what is the holy spirit

Job 31:15
New International Version (NIV)

15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them?
Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?

did not Job talks about the common way to humans having children yes it is

Quote

Deuteronomy 14:1
New International Version (NIV)

14 You are the children of the Lord your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead,

so the rest of the human race was not God's creation

Quote

James 1:17
New International Version (NIV)

17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

but to you it is not ,because you try to change the do process that God as put in place ,and use the recovery from sin to use it to cover your ignorance hmmm,hmmm

January 27, 2013 at 9:20 pm#330353

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 28 2013,05:31)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 27 2013,18:40)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 27 2013,05:08)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 26 2013,19:52)

Is that a bit odd?
The earliest church accepted Hermes despite the “Adoptionist” type of Cristology.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

Well, Gene,
That early church writing accepted that view and it was even included as canon until they took it out, so that is interesting.

I personally believe the scriptures as they are and they do tell us that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and though I have thought about it, I have not spoken or written about it much.

So I see it as all a part of God's plan.

2besee……..Hope you don't get discouraged here by Pierre's accusatory spirit and comments.

Have something i found interesting in the way scripture presents it, and would like to get your input brother.

Now He did not say that about Man but about Jesus only.

Would like you in put on this brother.

peace and love to you and yours 2besee……………………gene

Hi Gene,

Thank you, it was more what I was seeing towards others.

—————–

Now regarding the topic,

Have you ever had a 'deja vu' (knowing that you have been in an exact moment before).
I usually have a couple per year and some members of my family also.
One particular member who has 'deja vu's' regularly has tied them into dreams had prior to an event.
So I believe that 'deja vu's' are dreams though we cannot remember the dreams sometimes.

Scripture tells us:

Job 22:14

“For God speaks in one way, and in two, though man does not perceive it. In a dream, in a vision of the night.”

So I believe that God truly knows everything that happens before it happens, and this is how that is possible.

That would mean that God knew everything about Jesus before Jesus was born and before everything happened.
So God would have known that Jesus would have been sinless through His own will to obedience before it happened.

So if this adoptionist type view is correct,
Then that could also tie in with the virgin birth and God's plans to also cause Jesus to be a 'second Adam' without a natural Father

—————-

Jeremiah

[4] Now the word of the LORD came to me saying,

[5] “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
[6] Then I said, “Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, I do not know how to speak, for I am only a youth.”
[7] But the LORD said to me, “Do not say, `I am only a youth';
for to all to whom I send you you shall go,
and whatever I command you you shall speak.
[8] Be not afraid of them,
for I am with you to deliver you, says the LORD.”
[9] Then the LORD put forth his hand and touched my mouth; and the LORD said to me, “Behold, I have put my words in your mouth.
[10] See, I have set you this day over nations and over kingdoms,
to pluck up and to break down,
to destroy and to overthrow,
to build and to plant.”

Psalams 139

[13] For thou didst form my inward parts,
thou didst knit me together in my mother's womb.
[14] I praise thee, for thou art fearful and wonderful.
Wonderful are thy works!
Thou knowest me right well;
[15] my frame was not hidden from thee,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.
[16] Thy eyes beheld my unformed substance;
in thy book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

January 27, 2013 at 9:53 pm#330354

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….88;st=0

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,22:58)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 27 2013,15:19)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,21:56)

2bee

Their is a difference to eat and enjoy a meal ,to the fulles and share that meal with the family ,but it is a different thing to feed an army of prepared solders ,

Wen we read the scriptures we recie e food from God through his words

But totry to feed others is not the same thing ,Paul explain this ,
You need good deep understanding and a strong faith ,solid foundation

If not the house could be shaken off its foundation,

What happens to every tree that does not bear fruit.

What happened in the days of the Disciples.

Acts 2,
[41] So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

It is the Spirit that gives us the words to say.

2bee

Yes that his true but only if there is no outside influence ,

You slipped water baptism back on the table , let me ask one question

What is the difference of baptism to a Jew and later the Gentiles

Because the verse you show me they are all Jews all 3000 of them

Look how hard it was for those Jews to abandon the circumcision ,think about it a useless practice sinse Christ .

Hi T,
I was only pointing out how many souls were added in one day in the time of the Disciples.
So I was not “bringing baptism back on the table”!

But anyway,

You say that water baptism is a “useless practice”, and that 'that' verse only applied to the Jews.

The Disciples commanded it to the Jew and then to the Gentile, and whatever they bound on earth and in heaven was bound in earth and in heaven.

Baptism washes away our previous sins so that we are as if born again.

Scripture tells us that baptism was to the Jew first:

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

And then to the Gentiles:

Acts 10:44-48
“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed,
because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the GENTILES.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid WATER FOR BAPTIZING these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was baptised.

————-

This is off topic T,

The correct thread for that topic is here:

But, I have already told you “hyperdispesationlists” that I have nothing further to say on the matter!

January 27, 2013 at 9:57 pm#330355

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 28 2013,05:55)

you like to know that Christ was a man but not answering how could he been a man

if his father was no man ,???

T, was Adam a man?

January 27, 2013 at 10:33 pm#330356