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Quote (2besee @ Jan. 27 2013,12:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2013,15:13)
So then “the Word”, who became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten, could not possibly have been the Holy Spirit, right?I have already given you my view, Mike, and I have already answered this question many times it is not my fault if you do not accept it. What I believe is what I believe and I will not be changing my view as to me and to everybody here, what they believe is their truth. Do you expect us to all conform to you and a few others “truths”? Well, sorry, not me. I will stick with what GOD has shown me, not what man has shown me!
I would be a fool to follow something different than what has been shown to me. Where would it lead me? i tell you, nowhere!
Jeremiah 17
[5] Thus says the LORD:
“Cursed is the man who trusts in man
and makes flesh his arm,
whose heart turns away from the LORD.
[6] He is like a shrub in the desert,
and shall not see any good come.
He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness,
in an uninhabited salt land.
[7] “Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD,
whose trust is the LORD.
[8] He is like a tree planted by water,
that sends out its roots by the stream,
and does not fear when heat comes,
for its leaves remain green,
and is not anxious in the year of drought,
for it does not cease to bear fruit.”
[9] The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately corrupt;
who can understand it?
[10] “I the LORD search the mind
and try the heart,
to give to every man according to his ways,
according to the fruit of his doings.”I have been down quite a few roads.
I have searched and I have found.
I have been led after, down the wrong road
I have followed man
I have become lost
And now I am found again
Praise be to my God
Through His Son Christ Jesus.And now you try to lead others down your path and belief?
Why?
Where is the fruit in that?As to your question,
Quote So then “the Word”, who became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten, could not possibly have been the Holy Spirit, right? Anything is possible with God but it is not possible with man.
Why couldn't God have a Son who is called the Holy Spirit and is also a part of God??WHY NOT??
Could you answer that question?
2beeQuote I will stick with what GOD has shown me, not what man has shown me! if what you believe is not the truth according to scriptures then who was it that give you the understanding
is it not the one that as his face into the mirror of God
but turns away and quickly forgets what he saw,
if your believe that you received (?) his really from God you would and will and could defend it no matter what God and Christ will speak for you through the holy spirit of truth ,
but it seems that is not your case now does it
it seems that it is the outside of scriptures that lead you in error ,not scriptures wen believe as it is written.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,09:34) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 26 2013,16:18) but scriptures are not saying CONCEIVED, AS IN THE REPRODUCTION OF A MAN AND A WOMEN CONCEIVING AN OFFSPRING ,THIS ONLY BELONG TO MALE AND FEMALE ,
Good point, Pierre. Perhaps Kerwin doesn't mind being “inconsistent” when he speaks of the abnormality of Jesus having a human mother, but not a human father.
What say you, Kerwin? Is it okay that this aspect of Jesus' birth is “inconsistent” with human births, as we know them?
T & Mike,No it does not only belong to the reproduction of a male and a female. Parthenogenesis is female only conception, and occurs among living creatures to this day. It is a wonder of God that it occurred in mankind.
I happen to know about Parthenogenesis but it is not necessary to know that to know God performs miracles.
If Jesus' conception had been “consistent” with human norm it would not be the sign it is was performed to be, and neither would the line of Solomon been kept off the throne.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,19:24) 2bee Quote I will stick with what GOD has shown me, not what man has shown me! if what you believe is not the truth according to scriptures then who was it that give you the understanding
is it not the one that as his face into the mirror of God
but turns away and quickly forgets what he saw,
if your believe that you received (?) his really from God you would and will and could defend it no matter what God and Christ will speak for you through the holy spirit of truth ,
but it seems that is not your case now does it
it seems that it is the outside of scriptures that lead you in error ,not scriptures wen believe as it is written.
Terraricca,
I have better things to do than spending my time posting here. Where is the fruit in that?
You say I have not presented scriptures but i tell you that i have.
Some posts that I have done, and not only here but in other threads, were quite long, so long that people complained that they were too long!Why waste time posting to those who do not have the ears to hear??
I tell you that I could go and speak to a stranger and they would hear. (And I do not mean on the Internet!)
2bee
Quote Why couldn't God have a Son who is called the Holy Spirit and is also a part of God?? WHY NOT??
Could you answer that question?can you not see in scriptures that the holy spirit his of God ,and is given out to many while Jesus Christ his only begotten son his not ,but he also receives from that very holy spirit , if he received it also how can he be what he received
and he also gives part of the holy spirit that he received from his father ,Mt 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
Lk 1:15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.
how can some one be filled by what he his
according to you Lk 12:12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.”
Jn 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Jn 20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
see here Christ breathed on them and give them the holy spirit ;SO HOW COULD HE BE SOME THING THAT HE GIVE AWAY??? he can not
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 27 2013,12:33) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,19:24) 2bee Quote I will stick with what GOD has shown me, not what man has shown me! if what you believe is not the truth according to scriptures then who was it that give you the understanding
is it not the one that as his face into the mirror of God
but turns away and quickly forgets what he saw,
if your believe that you received (?) his really from God you would and will and could defend it no matter what God and Christ will speak for you through the holy spirit of truth ,
but it seems that is not your case now does it
it seems that it is the outside of scriptures that lead you in error ,not scriptures wen believe as it is written.
Terraricca,
I have better things to do than spending my time posting here. Where is the fruit in that?
You say I have not presented scriptures but i tell you that i have.
Some posts that I have done, and not only here but in other threads, were quite long, so long that people complained that they were too long!Why waste time posting to those who do not have the ears to hear??
I tell you that I could go and speak to a stranger and they would hear. (And I do not mean on the Internet!)
2beeyou free to go any place you see fit ,but wen you teach others the word of God ,make sure that you do not teach them lies ,
on HN we test the truth that some one comes and drop off, now if that person can not with scriptures defend his so called faith about the thing he says to believe in what sort of faith is that ,it can not be the truth ,if you like the truth this would be the place to test if what you understand is according to scriptures ,you do not have to believe anyone of us ,but believe the scriptures ,we on HN are just show you what truth the bible teaches ,it is up to you to take it or leave it ,it is your call ,
love you in Christ
the truth of God his my live ,Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2013,12:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,09:34) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 26 2013,16:18) but scriptures are not saying CONCEIVED, AS IN THE REPRODUCTION OF A MAN AND A WOMEN CONCEIVING AN OFFSPRING ,THIS ONLY BELONG TO MALE AND FEMALE ,
Good point, Pierre. Perhaps Kerwin doesn't mind being “inconsistent” when he speaks of the abnormality of Jesus having a human mother, but not a human father.What say you, Kerwin? Is it okay that this aspect of Jesus' birth is “inconsistent” with human births, as we know them?
T & Mike,No it does not only belong to the reproduction of a male and a female. Parthenogenesis is female only conception, and occurs among living creatures to this day. It is a wonder of God that it occurred in mankind.
I happen to know about Parthenogenesis but it is not necessary to know that to know God performs miracles.
If Jesus' conception had been “consistent” with human norm it would not be the sign it is was performed to be, and neither would the line of Solomon been kept off the throne.
KI told you and ask you to produce ONE EVENT THAT HAPPEN IN REAL LIVE A MEAN IN HUMAN LIVES ,
I STILL WAIT
???Mike and T,
IF GOD COULD CREATE, AND GIVE LIFE, TO THIS WHOLE WORLD………………..(pause and think about it)……………… COULD HE NOT ALSO, WHEN ALONE, BEGET ANOTHER BEING, FROM HIMSELF, WHO IS SEPARATE FROM HIM, AND IS ALSO A PART OF HIM, BECAUSE THAT PART CAME FROM HIM, AND THAT PART OF HIM, IS THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND THEN GOD MADE MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE.
We are talking about the creator of the whole universe here. And you try to say that this is impossible. Because you think in human terms. We are nothing but ants.
Well I know that through the Spirit i am able to have contact with God in Heaven, praise be to my God, Halleluyah!!
—————-
k
Quote If Jesus' conception had been “consistent” with human norm it would not be the sign it is was performed to be, and neither would the line of Solomon been kept off the throne. I SHOW YOU BUT YOU RUN AWAY FROM MY QUESTIONS, HOW IS THE LINE KEPT ONLY TO HIS MOTHER
AND THEY EVEN CALL JOSEPH LINE “”BUT WE ALL KNOW HE HIS NOT THE FATHER “””AND IF MARY WOULD BE A SURROGATE MOTHER IN WHAT WAY WOULD THE RESULTS CHANGE
?Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2013,12:19) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,03:35) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2013,03:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,01:08) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 26 2013,12:18) Who are the two examples of children of Wisdom?
Actually, it is thought that the original of Matthew 11:19 said, “Wisdom is vindicated by her DEEDS”.It says “children” in the parallel teaching of Luke 7:35, and it is thought that later scribes changed “deeds” to “children” in Matthew, preferring the more animate “offspring” reading.
At any rate, the statement is a general one – not applying only to John and Jesus. It means that wisdom is eventually proved to be right by those who apply wisdom in their lives. Ie: Live your life according to wisdom, and good things will happen, thereby vindicating the wisdom by which you lived your life.
What point would you like to make with this scripture?
Mike,Scripture is known to animate concepts like Wisdom.
kQuote Matthew 11:19 said, “Wisdom is vindicated by her DEEDS”. do you know why this is more accurate than your version
(children)
T,Because it is rumor that you wish to hear. I have not even seen evidence that such a manuscript exists, much less that it is the original wording.
T,I did my own research and there are manuscripts that do say deeds and certain deem them more reliable.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2013,12:52) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2013,12:19) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,03:35) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2013,03:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,01:08) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 26 2013,12:18) Who are the two examples of children of Wisdom?
Actually, it is thought that the original of Matthew 11:19 said, “Wisdom is vindicated by her DEEDS”.It says “children” in the parallel teaching of Luke 7:35, and it is thought that later scribes changed “deeds” to “children” in Matthew, preferring the more animate “offspring” reading.
At any rate, the statement is a general one – not applying only to John and Jesus. It means that wisdom is eventually proved to be right by those who apply wisdom in their lives. Ie: Live your life according to wisdom, and good things will happen, thereby vindicating the wisdom by which you lived your life.
What point would you like to make with this scripture?
Mike,Scripture is known to animate concepts like Wisdom.
kQuote Matthew 11:19 said, “Wisdom is vindicated by her DEEDS”. do you know why this is more accurate than your version
(children)
T,Because it is rumor that you wish to hear. I have not even seen evidence that such a manuscript exists, much less that it is the original wording.
T,I did my own research and there are manuscripts that do say deeds and certain deem them more reliable.
Kif you take the wording and look at it ;
“Wisdom is vindicated by her DEEDS”.
this would mean that BY APPLYING GODS WORDS YOU WOULD HAVE THE DEEDS THEIR OF AND SO COULD BE VENDICATED OF WHOM YOU BELONG TO “GOD”
this lines up with what James says about our faith without deeds his dead
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,19:46) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 27 2013,12:33) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,19:24) 2bee Quote I will stick with what GOD has shown me, not what man has shown me! if what you believe is not the truth according to scriptures then who was it that give you the understanding
is it not the one that as his face into the mirror of God
but turns away and quickly forgets what he saw,
if your believe that you received (?) his really from God you would and will and could defend it no matter what God and Christ will speak for you through the holy spirit of truth ,
but it seems that is not your case now does it
it seems that it is the outside of scriptures that lead you in error ,not scriptures wen believe as it is written.
Terraricca,
I have better things to do than spending my time posting here. Where is the fruit in that?
You say I have not presented scriptures but i tell you that i have.
Some posts that I have done, and not only here but in other threads, were quite long, so long that people complained that they were too long!Why waste time posting to those who do not have the ears to hear??
I tell you that I could go and speak to a stranger and they would hear. (And I do not mean on the Internet!)
2beeyou free to go any place you see fit ,but wen you teach others the word of God ,make sure that you do not teach them lies ,
on HN we test the truth that some one comes and drop off, now if that person can not with scriptures defend his so called faith about the thing he says to believe in what sort of faith is that ,it can not be the truth ,if you like the truth this would be the place to test if what you understand is according to scriptures ,you do not have to believe anyone of us ,but believe the scriptures ,we on HN are just show you what truth the bible teaches ,it is up to you to take it or leave it ,it is your call ,
love you in Christ
the truth of God his my live ,
T,
You are as bad as the Trinitarians,They say that nobody but them has the truth.
They say that you are not saved.
How does that feel (to you)?
Do you like to repeat their fruit?
Because the fruit is not good.
Look at the history,
Look at the killings.
That is not of God through Christ, as Christ did not order that to happen, did He?Did you know, that one can kill in spirit as well as by action?
It is the words of Jesus Christ.What are the fruits of the spirit T,
Can you answer that?Guard your words, and that is to all.
Love you too in Jesus Christ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 27 2013,05:08) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 26 2013,19:52) Is that a bit odd?
The earliest church accepted Hermes despite the “Adoptionist” type of Cristology.
2besee……….I also tend to believe in “adoptionist” view. because God can not Create God, in order to do that, the created God would have to have “existed for ever” as God did and so it would be impossible to bring into existence a new God , the new God would have just been created, could not have existed forever right?I believe that the Spirit of God the Father was “IN” Jesus , just as Jesus said “IT” Was. I also believe Jesus was sent out into the World after his Baptism and receiving of the HOLY SPIRIT at the Jordan River, which made him the First begotten Son of God from mankind into the kingdom of God and all of that was through an adoption process of a man who came into existence as a born human Being. Jesus the Christ.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
Well, Gene,
That early church writing accepted that view and it was even included as canon until they took it out, so that is interesting.I personally believe the scriptures as they are and they do tell us that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and though I have thought about it, I have not spoken or written about it much.
I think that God knows everything before it happens and God planned to save humans through recreating a man who did not have the “Adam Gene” and so He was pure, or, in a way, the SECOND ADAM because Adam also did not have a human Father.
So I see it as all a part of God's plan.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,07:49) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 26 2013,02:33) Luke 4
[1] And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit……
If the Holy Spirit can be IN the only begotten Son of God, doesn't it prove that the Holy Spirit is NOT the only begotten Son of God?
I have already tried to show you that the wording is not necessarily “Only Begotten” it could just as easily be “Unique”.Just as I tried to show you that In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was With God and the Word WAS GOD.
But, no, you prefer it to be another little god.
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
And God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”
And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.
And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God.
He who does not love does not know God; for God is love.
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins.Who is this Son of God sent into the World from HEAVEN?
God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.At that time Jesus declared, “I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes;
Yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will.
All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,19:46) I have better things to do than spending my time posting here. Where is the fruit in that? Hi T,
When I said this, I had a beautiful day with all of my family walking along the harbor with people everywhere and it is then that I decided that i needed to take what I know and present it to people, and I am thankful for what God has shown me (through this forum as well), and that is all that I was meaning regarding “fruit” and wasting time, though it most likely came out the wrong way…Look at what God has given to us!!
That is what I was meaning.
Oops, sorry! I accidentally put you (Terraricca) as the author of that last quoted part – Mike you may want to fix it.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 27 2013,14:32) Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
And God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”
And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.
And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God.
He who does not love does not know God; for God is love.
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins.Who is this Son of God sent into the World from HEAVEN?
God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.At that time Jesus declared, “I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes;
Yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will.
All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
2beeI do not understand your point ,you ask questions but do not really answered them ,you quote scripture that was true to God,to Christ and to his apostles but all he said is true but not all his for us today ,their are two calls,and so two pen of sheep ,
God s love his true love ,but their is also justice ,and righteousness in that love ,you forgot to mention it
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 27 2013,14:39) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,19:46) I have better things to do than spending my time posting here. Where is the fruit in that? Hi T,
When I said this, I had a beautiful day with all of my family walking along the harbor with people everywhere and it is then that I decided that i needed to take what I know and present it to people, and I am thankful for what God has shown me (through this forum as well), and that is all that I was meaning regarding “fruit” and wasting time, though it most likely came out the wrong way…Look at what God has given to us!!
That is what I was meaning.
2beeTheir is a difference to eat and enjoy a meal ,to the fulles and share that meal with the family ,but it is a different thing to feed an army of prepared solders ,
Wen we read the scriptures we recie e food from God through his words
But totry to feed others is not the same thing ,Paul explain this ,
You need good deep understanding and a strong faith ,solid foundationIf not the house could be shaken off its foundation,
T,
Only God can show this to you.
Please, concentrate (and pray first also for the truth)“The Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him?
So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.”“no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. “
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2013,21:56)
2beeTheir is a difference to eat and enjoy a meal ,to the fulles and share that meal with the family ,but it is a different thing to feed an army of prepared solders ,
Wen we read the scriptures we recie e food from God through his words
But totry to feed others is not the same thing ,Paul explain this ,
You need good deep understanding and a strong faith ,solid foundationIf not the house could be shaken off its foundation,
What happens to every tree that does not bear fruit.
What happened in the days of the Disciples.
Acts 2,
[41] So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.It is the Spirit that gives us the words to say.
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