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2bee
Quote e: 2)Who came from the Father? 2besee: The eternal spirit son (the Holy Spirit) came from the Father.
question is “WHO ” NOT WHAT”
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,21:38) 2bee Quote e: 2)Who came from the Father? 2besee: The eternal spirit son (the Holy Spirit) came from the Father.
question is “WHO ” NOT WHAT”
T,That is why it is a leading question, assuming the one asking does not understand that certain literary practices change “what” to “who”.
If they understand that then your objection has no merit.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,01:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,21:38) 2bee Quote e: 2)Who came from the Father? 2besee: The eternal spirit son (the Holy Spirit) came from the Father.
question is “WHO ” NOT WHAT”
T,That is why it is a leading question, assuming the one asking does not understand that certain literary practices change “what” to “who”.
If they understand that then your objection has no merit.
Kthe holy spirit his not a person or a being ,so it as to be a “what ” not a “who”
no one calls a table or a tool a “WHO” but a “WHAT”
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 20 2013,17:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2013,05:34)
Gene,Do you believe Jesus is good? YES or NO?
Mike, lets let Jesus answer this for you OK.?Why callest thou me good for there is only one that is good and that is God.
Okay Gene.John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.Matthew 5:45
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.Matthew 12:35
The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.So what's the answer now, Gene? Jesus clearly said that ONLY God was good, right? Yet he called himself “the good shepherd”, and spoke about certain “good” people.
In which verse do you suppose Jesus was LYING, Gene?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2013,13:25) I looked at it more like math in that the Word + flesh = the Word + flesh………
Kerwin,I truly have no idea what you're even trying to say. Suffice to say that a plus sign in no way ever means “made”. But just to entertain your notion:
The [combination of the] Word Plus Flesh dwelled on earth. (I'm assuming this is what you're trying to say, right?)
But now, add the word “kai” that is there in the Greek scripture, and it becomes:
The [combination of the] Word Plus Flesh AND dwelled on earth.
Can you see it yet? That word “and” is buggering you all up.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2013,13:25) If it states # 1 then John is teaching us Jesus Christ is Emmanual.
And do you believe that Christ is God Himself, dwelling among us? Do you really think that's what “emanuel” means – that God Himself came down from heaven and dwelled as a human being and was later killed by men?Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,16:55) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 2B, is your Lord Jesus Christ a “false god”? YES or NO? NO. The Father and Jesus are one.
And what does that mean? Do you believe that Jesus is God Almighty Himself?Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,21:59) I would not say or think 'It is God' because I know that God is 'God'. I need to work more on this.
Ah, that's better.So now what?
Are you ready to accept the scriptures that clearly call Jesus a god, while understanding that although he is a god (mighty one), he is the THE God, Jehovah?
Hi 2B,
Thanks for answering the questions.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,03:19) Mike: 1) Who was full of grace and truth? 2besee: Jesus the man was full of grace and truth
Yet verses 14 and 16 speak of “the Word” being full of grace and truth, and verse 17 says it was “Jesus” who was full of grace and truth. Perhaps the one called “the Word” actually IS the one called “Jesus”?Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,03:19) Mike: 2)Who came from the Father? 2besee: The eternal spirit son (the Holy Spirit) came from the Father.
The Holy Spirit is NEVER called “the son of God” in ANY scripture, 2B. Will you invent your own doctrines?John 16:28
I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”Who said the words above, 2B? It is THAT ONE who “came from the Father”.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,03:19) Mike: 3)Whose glory did John and the others see? (John 2:11) 2besee: Answered in Q1.
So I assume your answer is “Jesus”? Yet verse 14 says it was “the Word's” glory that they saw. Perhaps the one called “the Word” actually IS the one called “Jesus”?Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,03:19) Mike: 4)Who is the ONLY one in existence that would have the glory of the only begotten of God? (Please answer this one.) 2besee: Jesus.
Correct. Yet verse 14 says it was “the Word” who had the glory of God's only begotten. Perhaps the one called “the Word” actually IS the one called “Jesus”?Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,03:19) Mike: 5)Who do we all know is the only begotten of God? (John 3:16, etc.) 2besee: Jesus.
Correct.Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,03:19) Mike: 6)Does “Jesus Christ” fit perfectly as the answer to all 5 previous questions? YES or NO? 2besee: Yes……
Correct.Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,03:19) Mike: 7)Does the answer “Holy Spirit” fit all 5? YES or NO? 2besee: Yes.
Hmmmm…………Can you show me the scripture where the Holy Spirit of God has “glory”? Could you show me the scripture where John and the others saw that glory? Could you show me the scripture that says the Holy Spirit of God is the “only begotten of God”? Also, verses 6-9 say John came to testify about “the Word”. Can you show me a scripture where John testfied about the Holy Spirit? Can you show me where John “made clear the path of the Lord” – referring to the Holy Spirit as his “Lord”?
If you can show me these scriptures, they might change my mind. If you cannot, then you are just claiming unscriptural things. (Btw, once again, all of the things I mentioned above fit Jesus to a “t”.)
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,03:19) Mike: 8)Does the answer “God Himself” fit all 5? YES or NO? 2besee: “The spirit of God” does.
I asked if GOD HIMSELF fits all 5? Does He? YES or NO?Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,13:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,21:38) 2bee Quote e: 2)Who came from the Father? 2besee: The eternal spirit son (the Holy Spirit) came from the Father.
question is “WHO ” NOT WHAT”
T,That is why it is a leading question, assuming the one asking does not understand that certain literary practices change “what” to “who”.
Most people assume that since JESUS is the only begotten of the Father, the only begotten of the Father is a PERSON, and not a THING, Kerwin.Therefore, a rendering of “who” fits much better than “what”.
Btw, when are YOU going to answer those 8 questions with simple, one-word answers? And when are you going to address my other questions you've thus far overlooked, such as:
1. Kerwin, who exactly do you think “the Word” was? Do you believe the Word was God Almighty Himself?
2. 2B and Kerwin,
WHY do you suppose John the Baptist said the SAME EXACT words about “the Word” in verse 15 that he said about “Jesus” in verse 30?
Doesn't that lead you guys to the OBVIOUS conclusion that the one called “the Word” is the very same one who is also called “Jesus”?
3. So then you understand it this way:
14 The Word came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
16 From the fullness of his (the Word's) grace we have all received blessings.
17 Oh, and by the way, Grace and truth ALSO came by Jesus Christ – even though, up to now, I haven't been talking about him.
Is that the way you understand it, Kerwin? YES or NO?
4. Kerwin: John the Baptist, John 1:6;
His baptism, Mark 11:30;
everything a man receives, John 3:27.
The Christ,
The word of God, Isaiah 55:11Good Kerwin.
Now, which of your answers came from the Father AND dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?
I hate to bombard you guys with a million questions at once, but it wouldn't happen that way if you answered them AS I asked them. Anyway, these are just some of the ones you guys haven't addressed.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,01:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,21:38) 2bee Quote e: 2)Who came from the Father? 2besee: The eternal spirit son (the Holy Spirit) came from the Father.
question is “WHO ” NOT WHAT”
T,That is why it is a leading question, assuming the one asking does not understand that certain literary practices change “what” to “who”.
If they understand that then your objection has no merit.
Kthe holy spirit his not a person or a being ,so it as to be a “what ” not a “who”
no one calls a table or a tool a “WHO” but a “WHAT”
T,Jesus calls Wisdom a she; even though Wisdom is a what. I believe Wisdom is an aspect of the Spirit.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,07:44) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,01:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,21:38) 2bee Quote e: 2)Who came from the Father? 2besee: The eternal spirit son (the Holy Spirit) came from the Father.
question is “WHO ” NOT WHAT”
T,That is why it is a leading question, assuming the one asking does not understand that certain literary practices change “what” to “who”.
If they understand that then your objection has no merit.
Kthe holy spirit his not a person or a being ,so it as to be a “what ” not a “who”
no one calls a table or a tool a “WHO” but a “WHAT”
T,Jesus calls Wisdom a she; even though Wisdom is a what. I believe Wisdom is an aspect of the Spirit.
Kyou assume many things, do you ever wander if they are true
wisdom ,could be understood ,and teaches,it is also selective ,it can allegorically have children,it could be someone that possess the essence of it ,it could be a he or a she being that the she receives from the he ,
and it is not the holy spirit ,
Mike,
Quote Most people assume that since JESUS is the only begotten of the Father, the only begotten of the Father is a PERSON, and not a THING, Kerwin. Therefore, a rendering of “who” fits much better than “what”.
That is where the knowledge of how language can be used. I already pointed out a situation when Jesus addresses a 'what' as if it is a 'who” to Pierre.
We know that John 1:17 is talking about the Spirit because she knows all things and reveals them first to Jesus. The Spirit is also called the Son in other places.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God in the same way Isaac is the only begotten of Abraham.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,08:14) Mike, Quote Most people assume that since JESUS is the only begotten of the Father, the only begotten of the Father is a PERSON, and not a THING, Kerwin. Therefore, a rendering of “who” fits much better than “what”.
That is where the knowledge of how language can be used. I already pointed out a situation when Jesus addresses a 'what' as if it is a 'who” to Pierre.
We know that John 1:17 is talking about the Spirit because she knows all things and reveals them first to Jesus. The Spirit is also called the Son in other places.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God in the same way Isaac is the only begotten of Abraham.
KJn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace(redemption for our sins) and truth(the true understanding to be saved and accepted by God ) came through Jesus Christ.
I can see what you see in those scriptures ;
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2013,08:03) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,07:44) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,01:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,21:38) 2bee Quote e: 2)Who came from the Father? 2besee: The eternal spirit son (the Holy Spirit) came from the Father.
question is “WHO ” NOT WHAT”
T,That is why it is a leading question, assuming the one asking does not understand that certain literary practices change “what” to “who”.
If they understand that then your objection has no merit.
Kthe holy spirit his not a person or a being ,so it as to be a “what ” not a “who”
no one calls a table or a tool a “WHO” but a “WHAT”
T,Jesus calls Wisdom a she; even though Wisdom is a what. I believe Wisdom is an aspect of the Spirit.
Kyou assume many things, do you ever wander if they are true
wisdom ,could be understood ,and teaches,it is also selective ,it can allegorically have children,it could be someone that possess the essence of it ,it could be a he or a she being that the she receives from the he ,
and it is not the holy spirit ,
T,Wisdom is an aspect of the Spirit as The Spirit teaches Wisdom to its children.
Allegorically the Spirit can be spoken of as a 'she', 'he' or 'it' and is spoken of all three in the original languages.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,14:09) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,13:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,21:38) 2bee Quote e: 2)Who came from the Father? 2besee: The eternal spirit son (the Holy Spirit) came from the Father.
question is “WHO ” NOT WHAT”
T,That is why it is a leading question, assuming the one asking does not understand that certain literary practices change “what” to “who”.
Most people assume that since JESUS is the only begotten of the Father, the only begotten of the Father is a PERSON, and not a THING, Kerwin.Therefore, a rendering of “who” fits much better than “what”.
Btw, when are YOU going to answer those 8 questions with simple, one-word answers? And when are you going to address my other questions you've thus far overlooked, such as:
1. Kerwin, who exactly do you think “the Word” was? Do you believe the Word was God Almighty Himself?
2. 2B and Kerwin,
WHY do you suppose John the Baptist said the SAME EXACT words about “the Word” in verse 15 that he said about “Jesus” in verse 30?
Doesn't that lead you guys to the OBVIOUS conclusion that the one called “the Word” is the very same one who is also called “Jesus”?
3. So then you understand it this way:
14 The Word came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
16 From the fullness of his (the Word's) grace we have all received blessings.
17 Oh, and by the way, Grace and truth ALSO came by Jesus Christ – even though, up to now, I haven't been talking about him.
Is that the way you understand it, Kerwin? YES or NO?
4. Kerwin: John the Baptist, John 1:6;
His baptism, Mark 11:30;
everything a man receives, John 3:27.
The Christ,
The word of God, Isaiah 55:11Good Kerwin.
Now, which of your answers came from the Father AND dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?
I hate to bombard you guys with a million questions at once, but it wouldn't happen that way if you answered them AS I asked them. Anyway, these are just some of the ones you guys haven't addressed.
Mike, I will bookmark this page so that perhaps one day future I will answer the rest of your questions, but i think it is about time that you answered questions.Unlike you, I will not bombard you with so many questions all at once which completely kills the spirit in anything.
First question coming up soon,.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,06:23) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2013,13:25) If it states # 1 then John is teaching us Jesus Christ is Emmanual.
And do you believe that Christ is God Himself, dwelling among us? Do you really think that's what “emanuel” means – that God Himself came down from heaven and dwelled as a human being and was later killed by men?
Mike,I believe that Emanuel means that the Word, that was God and was with God, was made flesh and that God dwells in Jesus via the Spirit.
I am treating the Word as a variable and John 1:1 as an assignment statement.
As for was made flesh it is more like set Word = flesh but that is accomplished by adding the aspect flesh to the Word just as the making of new friends is said to add the aspect of flesh to hope and so set hope = flesh.
“New friends are hope made flesh.”
I met Mike and so hope was made flesh.
The dwelling place of God was destroyed by mankind and on the third day it was rebuilt by the hands of Jehovah.
k
Quote The dwelling place of God was destroyed by mankind and on the third day it was rebuilt by the hands of Jehovah. you have in deed colorful expression to say the least ,but is it the truth
so show me scriptures ?Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,01:49) k Quote The dwelling place of God was destroyed by mankind and on the third day it was rebuilt by the hands of Jehovah. you have in deed colorful expression to say the least ,but is it the truth
so show me scriptures ?
T,If you consider then you already know what passage I speak of. Never the less it is John 2:19.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,13:28) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,21:59) I would not say or think 'It is God' because I know that God is 'God'. I need to work more on this.
Ah, that's better.So now what?
Are you ready to accept the scriptures that clearly call Jesus a god, while understanding that although he is a god (mighty one), he is the THE God, Jehovah?
Jeremiah 10.[11] Thus shall you say to them:
“The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens.
[12] It is he who made the earth by his power,
who established the world by his wisdom,
and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.“Remember, God alone made the heavens according to Scripture, and there was no other god beside Him.
I was only on that chapter because I was looking at something to do with 'Christmas' which is also in that Chapter, verse 3-4.
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