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Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,07:36) Flesh which we have now – of course it can't go into heaven. But if it is changed, then why couldn't it?
So you believe like Kerwin (without one shred of scriptural evidence) that there is a different kind of flesh for those in heaven? Why 2B? Why would you completely ignore Jesus and Paul when they say flesh CANNOT enter the kingdom of God, and just INVENT your own theory about “changed flesh”?
Isn't it possible that “flesh” is a thing of the earth, and is non-existent in heaven? Because that's sure what the scriptures teach.
So why must people like you and Kerwin go about INVENTING things to prove yourselves right, and Jesus and Paul wrong?
Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,07:36) Ed, were you influenced by the JWs or Mormons out something??
Well how do you like that, Ed?
Do you see how 2B thinks that by saying the above, he no longer has to actually refute your points, because he's make your points null and void just by linking you to a “non-popular” group of people? It's no different than saying, “Oh, you must be black” – as if being black would automatically make your points null and void, and unworthy of an actual rebuttal.
This is what you often do to David and myself. How does that shoe feel when it's on your own foot?
Are you now able to see what a weak and pathetic argument a statement like this is? It is the way of the coward who can't actually refute your points.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 02 2013,07:50) 2besee……..Good point, those flesh bodies cast into the fire did not burn nor was a hair singed on them, and they were flesh bodies…………….
So let me get this straight………….Are you guys saying that the fact that God can open flesh eyes to see spirits on occasion, or that He can cause flesh to walk on water or go through doors, or not be burned in fire means that it's okay for you to invent some kind of flesh that can dwell in heaven when Jesus and Paul both say it can't?
Is that it?
Hi Mike,
Matt.13:36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38and the field is the world; and [as for] the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil [one]; 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40″So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41″The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43″Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Is it not quite PLAIN there are two Kingdoms?
41″The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of HIS kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Kingdom of the Son.
43″Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Kingdom of God.
gather out of HIS kingdom all stumbling blocks, and *THOSE* who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
No FLESH HERE?
Peace.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2013,23:06) Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2013,19:02) Unlike Seth's line which Scripture starts with God, Cain's line starts with Cain.
Really? This is the crap I'm talking about, Kerwin. Are you REALLY suggesting that Cain WASN'T the son of Adam, who was the son of God? You can't REALLY be suggesting such a thing, can you? Genesis 4:1
Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man.”
Mike,That is not where Cain's line started. Cain's line started after he was hidden from the face of God. Seth and his line were not hid from God's face. The fact that Seth was not hidden from God's face reveals that he is a son of God. Cain on the other hand is revealed not to be a son of God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2013,23:13) Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2013,19:23) Flesh is but a tent for the soul………….
2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
The flesh tent in which we now dwell was metaphorically “built by human hands”. (See John 3: “flesh gives birth to flesh”.)
We do not look forward to being unclothed, but to being clothed with a new heavenly dwelling that is NOT built by human hands………….. ie: NOT flesh.
Mike,The mortal body is made of woman
The immortal body is made by the power of the Spirit.The mortal is changed to immortal when mortal flesh is swallowed up in life.
Neither Adam's or Eve's flesh bodies were made by human hands. They were immortal bodies before the fall.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2013,22:16) Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2013,15:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,09:20) Kerwin, are all BEINGS created? Is God?
Mike,All beings with either a heavenly or earthly body are created. God is not created and does not have a body.
Kerwin,Are you unable to directly answer a question anymore? I have grown so tired of you and Abe and Gene and jammin these days.
All of you refuse to answer simple questions, and it is frustrating.
See if you can answer this simple question:
Is God a being? YES or NO?
Mike,I have trouble answering as you like because you ask questions that I foresee would leave my answer open to interpretation or something similar.
Yes, God is a being.
Mike,
1 Thessalonians 4:15
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)15 The Lord himself will come down from heaven. There will be a shout, a great angel will speak, and God's loud horn or trumpet will be blown.
Quote (abe @ June 02 2013,12:40) Is it not quite PLAIN there are two Kingdoms?
No Abe,There will be only ONE kingdom. It is the called both the kingdom of the Son, and the kingdom of the Father, because both will rule over it.
Right now it is also called the kingdom of heaven, because that is where it exists for the time being. Remember Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world. (At least not yet.)
Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,13:25) Cain's line started after he was hidden from the face of God.
Oh, so SETH'S line INCLUDES Adam and God – but CAIN'S line doesn't?Kerwin, among those of the line of Seth, who was godly at the time of the flood?
Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,13:39) Neither Adam's or Eve's flesh bodies were made by human hands. They were immortal bodies before the fall.
There is no scripture that says such a thing, Kerwin……… but let's assume there was.So now we have Adam and Eve, the only two flesh bodies that were NOT made by human hands. But Jesus says flesh GIVES BIRTH TO flesh, right? Is that correct?
And since it IS correct, our flesh must be born again of water and spirit (NOT FLESH) in order to enter the kingdom of God.
Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,13:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2013,22:16)
Is God a being? YES or NO?
Mike,Yes, God is a being.
Kerwin,All you EVER have to worry about is answering HONESTLY. If you think your HONEST answers will “get you in trouble”, then you apparently don't have any faith in your own honest answers. Perhaps you're afraid that I WILL refute your understanding once your honest answer is given, and that is why you are sometimes afraid to give it?
Now we both agree that God is a being. So one could say that all beings, EXCEPT FOR GOD, are created, right? Right.
And since that is the case, we could also say that all BODIES are created, EXCEPT FOR GOD'S, right? Right.
See how much time we could have saved if you would have just answered a simple question in the first place? Now, I don't expect you to anymore insist that God doesn't have a body simply because “all bodies are created”. Find a different way to buck against Paul's words in Phil 2:6 – because this first way has been nullified.
Kerwin,
Genesis 6
1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
In verse 1, who is included in the word “men”? Only Cain's line? Or does it mean men IN GENERAL?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,02:12) Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,13:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2013,22:16)
Is God a being? YES or NO?
Mike,Yes, God is a being.
Kerwin,All you EVER have to worry about is answering HONESTLY. If you think your HONEST answers will “get you in trouble”, then you apparently don't have any faith in your own honest answers. Perhaps you're afraid that I WILL refute your understanding once your honest answer is given, and that is why you are sometimes afraid to give it?
Now we both agree that God is a being. So one could say that all beings, EXCEPT FOR GOD, are created, right? Right.
And since that is the case, we could also say that all BODIES are created, EXCEPT FOR GOD'S, right? Right.
See how much time we could have saved if you would have just answered a simple question in the first place? Now, I don't expect you to anymore insist that God doesn't have a body simply because “all bodies are created”. Find a different way to buck against Paul's words in Phil 2:6 – because this first way has been nullified.
Mike,I answered honestly but I chose to make it less vague than what you wanted to hear.
God is not created.
All bodies are created because bodies occupy space.
Space is either a part of the heavens or a part of the earth and both were created in the beginning.Quote (2besee @ June 03 2013,00:36) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,21:26) Yea, and… ?
(1)Flesh which we have now – of course it can't go into heaven. But if it is changed, then why couldn't it? It can adapt to different changes as it goes up and as it comes down – much like the Praying Mantis in my room who changed from bright green to pale cream which was the color of the wall!
An astronaut can survive when he puts on his MANMADE space suit – (2)so do you doubt that God cannot clothe us in something BETTER?
(3)How do you think some will survive the coming fire, if you know about that? Did the three men in the pit of fire in Daniel turn into spirits to survive the flames? NO, they did not. It says that their FLESH was not burnt, so, like the resurrected Jesus, they weren't ghosts!False prophets have dates and when that date never comes, they said that Jesus DID return in SPIRIT, and then they change everything else to fit in with that initial lie.
(4)Ed, were you influenced by the JWs or Mormons out something??
Hi 2Besee,1) “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.” (Romans 8:9)
2) No
3) The fire of God is spiritual, not physical.
4) What do you mean by “influenced”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,04:22) Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,01:44) Ed J, Two things which deceivers can do, and how to tell them according to John:
1a) Deny that Jesus was flesh and bone like we are, 1b) Deny that Jesus will return in the flesh.
2) Deny the Father and Son.
#2 is correct.#1 is wrong on both counts. We are not to accept that Jesus HAS ALWAYS BEEN flesh, but that he CAME in the flesh. Nor is there any teaching that says Jesus will “return in the flesh”. That is simply YOUR misunderstanding of the words in Acts 1:11.
Hi Mike,Yes, you hit the nail on the head brother!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,17:19) Mike, I answered honestly but I chose to make it less vague than what you wanted to hear.
Actually Kerwin, as is par for you, you chose to make things way more CONFUSING and MUMBLED than they ever needed to be.Quote God is not created.
All bodies are created because bodies occupy space.
All beings are created. God is the exception.All bodies are created. God's is the exception.
(And not that I think you even have the foggiest idea about bodies and space, I will indulge you……….)
All bodies occupy space. God's is the exception.
Now can you see it, Kerwin? If God is the exception to SO MANY general claims about everyone else, then why can't He also be the exception to the claim, “All bodies are created” ?
There is no good answer you can give, Kerwin……….. so just let it go. You are making claims that you simply have no idea about. Paul said Jesus was existing in the form of God. I believe Paul, and you don't. That's the long and short of it.
Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,17:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,04:22) Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,01:44) Ed J, Two things which deceivers can do, and how to tell them according to John:
1a) Deny that Jesus was flesh and bone like we are, 1b) Deny that Jesus will return in the flesh.
2) Deny the Father and Son.
#2 is correct.#1 is wrong on both counts. We are not to accept that Jesus HAS ALWAYS BEEN flesh, but that he CAME in the flesh. Nor is there any teaching that says Jesus will “return in the flesh”. That is simply YOUR misunderstanding of the words in Acts 1:11.
Hi Mike,Yes, you hit the nail on the head brother!
God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed,Heaven Net is a bittersweet experience most of the time. On one hand, it is great that so many of us would rather be here talking about God than surfing the usual fluff on the internet. And there are good times, like when you and I can so easily see that Acts 1:11 doesn't say Jesus will return in the flesh – contrary to the understanding of many people.
But then I can't get you to understand that, way AFTER Pentecost, Paul warned us not to believe anyone who says the second coming had already taken place.
So I have a “victory” in that both of us are seeing the same thing in Acts 1:11; but that victory is short lived.
I love everyone here, but feel a kindred spirit with t8 and Pierre, for we seem to have victory after victory…….. and they are lasting victories.
Anyway, that's just how I feel.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,12:32) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,17:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,04:22) Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,01:44) Ed J, Two things which deceivers can do, and how to tell them according to John:
1a) Deny that Jesus was flesh and bone like we are, 1b) Deny that Jesus will return in the flesh.
2) Deny the Father and Son.
#2 is correct.#1 is wrong on both counts. We are not to accept that Jesus HAS ALWAYS BEEN flesh, but that he CAME in the flesh. Nor is there any teaching that says Jesus will “return in the flesh”. That is simply YOUR misunderstanding of the words in Acts 1:11.
Hi Mike,Yes, you hit the nail on the head brother!
God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed,Heaven Net is a bittersweet experience most of the time. On one hand, it is great that so many of us would rather be here talking about God than surfing the usual fluff on the internet. And there are good times, like when you and I can so easily see that Acts 1:11 doesn't say Jesus will return in the flesh – contrary to the understanding of many people.
But then I can't get you to understand that, way AFTER Pentecost, Paul warned us not to believe anyone who says the second coming had already taken place.
So I have a “victory” in that both of us are seeing the same thing in Acts 1:11; but that victory is short lived.
I love everyone here, but feel a kindred spirit with t8 and Pierre, for we seem to have victory after victory…….. and they are lasting victories.
Anyway, that's just how I feel.
Hi Mike,You better go back and reread, Shaool's warning was about
the belief that the believers resurrection already taking place.“Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection
is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.” (2 Tim 2:18)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 03 2013,08:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,12:32) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,17:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,04:22) Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,01:44) Ed J, Two things which deceivers can do, and how to tell them according to John:
1a) Deny that Jesus was flesh and bone like we are, 1b) Deny that Jesus will return in the flesh.
2) Deny the Father and Son.
#2 is correct.#1 is wrong on both counts. We are not to accept that Jesus HAS ALWAYS BEEN flesh, but that he CAME in the flesh. Nor is there any teaching that says Jesus will “return in the flesh”. That is simply YOUR misunderstanding of the words in Acts 1:11.
Hi Mike,Yes, you hit the nail on the head brother!
God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed,Heaven Net is a bittersweet experience most of the time. On one hand, it is great that so many of us would rather be here talking about God than surfing the usual fluff on the internet. And there are good times, like when you and I can so easily see that Acts 1:11 doesn't say Jesus will return in the flesh – contrary to the understanding of many people.
But then I can't get you to understand that, way AFTER Pentecost, Paul warned us not to believe anyone who says the second coming had already taken place.
So I have a “victory” in that both of us are seeing the same thing in Acts 1:11; but that victory is short lived.
I love everyone here, but feel a kindred spirit with t8 and Pierre, for we seem to have victory after victory…….. and they are lasting victories.
Anyway, that's just how I feel.
Hi Mike,You better go back and reread, Shaool's warning was about
the belief that the believers resurrection already taking place.“Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection
is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.” (2 Tim 2:18)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdjBut does the resurrection not coencide with the return of Christ
Ed,
1 Corinthians 11:26
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.1 Corinthians 15:23
But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.1 Thessalonians 2:19
For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?1 Thessalonians 3:13
May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.Are you seeing a pattern?
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